had no clue what to call it since i'mcovering a few things here..

Recently I could swear i felt a lagging in power, one that commonly comes along with a nice big boost leak. WEll today while i was installing the Cyclone manifolds actuation solenoids and lines i stumbled upon something...errr...bad THe "C" clip on the HKS SSQV had made it's way out of the ring it clips into

Well, I must admit that i actually didn't even use the "real" HKS snap ring I went to the hardware store and got one because having got the valve used i didn't have the proper ring tostart with. When i was there i bought one i felt like i wanted to install and one that looked like the HKS part (and is just as stiff)

So i Pulled the valve and started on installing it with a new "C" clip, and one that was up to the size/strength of the one HKS wants you to use (which anyone who's installed this BOV knows it's the MOST PITA snap ring on the planet)

Anyway, I got it in (finally) and then snapped a few pics of the new dual runner actuation system. The 2 flourescent lines are actually from large RC cars (gas line), then i have a large one way valve I scavenged from a junkyard off a cars brake line, and used rubber fuel line and some adapters and hose clamps to make a HD check that was reduced to the proper size lines.

The solenoid is just one of the ones off the firewall of the mitsubishi (FPS from 97 GS-T) when un-charged it passes air from the "side top" port to the bottom port. and when energized it vents both of them out the top through a little filter.

Here's a ton of pics for you... I didn't even need a vacum canister (must be enough volume in the check valve and lines) because even after shut off of the engine it took a little over 4 minutes for it to bleed off and open the runners again

I have my Hlatech e6x setup to control the dual runners based on RPM alone right now ( i can add load figures too) and currently i'm opening it at 4400 and have it "reset" or close again at anything under 4250 RPM. I was adding in load at first but with too much boost on the long "torque runners" made the car feel "held back" until the manifold would open up and turn the car loose

Here's the main bit of what shows of the lines coming from the cabin boost refference split and going back into the actuator


Here you can see the large check valve and the 2 reducers that i used some rubber hose and clamps to reduce the check valve line size


Here's the fuel pressure solenoid pulled out and exposed (normally you can't really see it tucked into the curve of the cyclone manifold)


In this pic i just took an overall shot of the manifold with it laying there with lines and wires to be seen


And in the last pic i'm just showing up a little cleaning up of the engine bay and what she now looks like with the cyclone manifold installed... the cyclone fits a 2g car with AC without ANY grinding or anything (for those who don't know)

Nice job, what have you noticed spool wise?

I'm curious to hear about your results too. Any before/after numbers (you're always good about logging data ). Nice work on the coil pack mounting.

Well, I don't have "given numbers" as in saying X amount of PSI by X RPM, but what i have noticed is the car is making much more boost earlier on before you'd ever be looking for peak boost. IT's also coming on a LOT harder, I was driving in the rain tonight and everytimethe turbo would spool in third the car would hit hard and loose traction. (still set to come on at 4400 RPM and off at 4250'ish)

The low end ddrivability is much better around town though too.. I also noticed on the 2 lane roads (45mph areas) the car was actually making so much boost so early that i was getting a little surge even with an "anti-surge" (MWE grooved) compressor housing

Overall I haven't really been able to tell if i've lost anything in thye top because it was either raining really hard or i had the BOV leaking out of half of it's mounting surface.

(those small episodes of getting sideways in third at half throttle were very fun indeed though )

To be honest i wish i would have finished the porting/clean-up work i had started to do on the manifold but in all fairness i just didn't have the time and with putting it on while changing the head gasket, porting wasthe last thing on my mind. I'm just stoked to have the actuator hooked up now I've been driving a few weeks on the manifold and it hasn't been operating and in that form i can say i did notice a loss over the 1g turbo intake.... (it's also nice having the extra vacumpors on the cyclone unit)

romeen.. no data yet I spent all day either working and waiting on customer motorcycles and what time i had to really get things done was spent hooking all this up and repairing the BOV. we've been under some damn cold and HEAVY rain today and last night and the roads aren't good for any real testing, but they are good for playing a nice game of "watch me go sideways in 3 gears"

Is there a particular reason that you're activating it at 4400rpm? Did you play around with different activation points for comparison?

I have mine activating at 4100 which, from what I've read, is how the factory intended it to work. Honestly, I was expecting a little more low end although it's not bad. I didn't notice any loss of top end power whatsoever. I want to play around with different activation points but the car is down so much of the time that I don't get a chance.

It sounds like you're doing better with the pain issues. Hopefully that's the case and, if so, I'm glad to hear that Glenn!

Ahh..the pain, well, not really.. i'm actually persuing permanent disability at this point as i've been given the prognosis of "no chance of a normal life again" (arghhh..gets me angry that i've also got to find a new doctor since mine changed jobs and no longer has an office)

Anyway, enough of the bad news , I have played with activating it from everywhere in the range of 3500 - 4700 RPM, at 4100 i feel a "drag" that gets lifted when the flapper opens and any lower and i didn't get the advantage of the long runners.. 4400 seems to "blend" the two stages together nicely and give for a great torque band

You just convinced me to raise mine. "Drag" is a good description of what it feels like.

Hmmm interesting results. Never thought these manifold were worth much. I have one sitting in the corner of my garage collecting dust.

Drew

romeen said:

You just convinced me to raise mine. "Drag" is a good description of what it feels like.

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Well, at least i had a real reason other than to be different

so you know what i was feeling i take it? it was a weird almost being held back sorta feeling and although i'm unsure what about moving it up a few hundred RPM really did as far as working better with the airflow at both levels but i definitely wasn't happy with the 4100 JDM spec either (probably based around a smaller faster spoooling turbo too)

I may have to re-tune the flappers after i timemy cam gears. They are installed "straight up" right now but over the last few years i've found mine gain big jumps in airflow and top end pull when i have the Exh. cam at +4 and the intake cam at -4* and i need to set them back there and see if it cures this lack of top end i'm talking myself into feeling even after fixing a HUGE boost leak

turboglenn said:

so you know what i was feeling i take it? it was a weird almost being held back sorta feeling and although i'm unsure what about moving it up a few hundred RPM really did as far as working better with the airflow at both levels but i definitely wasn't happy with the 4100 JDM spec either (probably based around a smaller faster spoooling turbo too)

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The weird thing is that the flat area for me is below 4K where the Cyclone should be improving response. However, I've got the boost turned way down right now so I think that may be the problem.

I may have to re-tune the flappers after i timemy cam gears. They are installed "straight up" right now but over the last few years i've found mine gain big jumps in airflow and top end pull when i have the Exh. cam at +4 and the intake cam at -4* and i need to set them back there and see if it cures this lack of top end i'm talking myself into feeling even after fixing a HUGE boost leak

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Interesting. And that's with the FFWD 264/272 combo? I've got HKS 264/264 installed straight up and a smaller turbo than you (E3 16G) and mine pulls hard all the way past 7K (limit raised to 8K).

I'm eager to get the car back on the road so I can play with raising the activation point. Kelvin (keltalon) runs (or use to run?) a Cyclone and I think he had posted something about it a while back.

romeen said:

The weird thing is that the flat area for me is below 4K where the Cyclone should be improving response. However, I've got the boost turned way down right now so I think that may be the problem.



Interesting. And that's with the FFWD 264/272 combo? I've got HKS 264/264 installed straight up and a smaller turbo than you (E3 16G) and mine pulls hard all the way past 7K (limit raised to 8K).

I'm eager to get the car back on the road so I can play with raising the activation point. Kelvin (keltalon) runs (or use to run?) a Cyclone and I think he had posted something about it a while back.

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the difference in our setups (and where the turbo starts to come on) is probably why we experience it in different RPM ranges.

AS for the cams they are DKS 264/272's and i've found the overlap i can get rid of, the better the cylinders will catch a fresh charge of air that'sdenser and less poluted with exhaust. It sacrifices a little bottom end but that's never bothered me

Awesome post. I cant wait to put my JDMyo intake into my 6bolt 99 GSX. Just waiting on a seal and some gaskets. I also have a Holset HX35 I'm trying to talk myself into making the jump to t3 mode.
You have it run sort of weird though. Im going to run it like this. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-simple-cyclone-intake-manifol-actuation.html Except I have a vacuum canister from a junkyard Deawoo and will be using DSMlink V2.5 to control the FPS. When the 3rd side of the FPS vents, the butterflies should open while the vacuum canister stops boost from leaking.

Actually. I think I found a boost leak. Your FPS

Maybe not. I cant exactly tell where you have your vacuum/boost hooked up

There's a million and one ways to run this thing, I did it like this because it's simple and my haltech easily controls it. There's no boost leak at the FPS, the one way check valve is between it and the manifold vacum line.. it will only vent off any air in the vacum'ed system as well as any that should leak past the check valve should it fail.

Does anyone know if the vent (3rd nipple) on top of the FPR solenoid is needed and why?

The solenoid I'm using doesn't have it. Just two ports that are normally open and then they close when energized. I've tested my system and it seems to work. The actuator gets vacuum keeping the valves closed and they open at the set point. Is there something that I'm missing here?

Edit: I started typing before seeing Spoolin's edit and Glenn's post. You know how you can get interrupted midway through a post then come back to finish it a half hour later.

That's how it releases the vacum stored in the actuator and canister,through the top/third/covered nipple

The way I have it set up it keeps the valves closed all the way up until the activation point. But if the vent releases the vacuum then the valves will open as soon as boost starts (closing the check valve), regardless of whether the activation point is reached. Is that correct?

Edit: Just to reiterate, the valves do open when the rpm activation point is reached.

Mine is solely activated by RPM, not sure where boost is coming into play unless you're talking about you're particular solenoid. I can add a "load factor" for "on and off" but chose not too as i got too much of that dragging feeling waiting on a predetermined boost to hit before they opened.

A few things i can say now after a day of tuning/tweaking the car... The top end flow IS LESS.. I went from 11.8 - 12.2 AFR"s under WOT at 27psi to 10.8 - 11.4 AFR and it took a lot of leaning down (and this was after putting my cams back how i had them in the +4/-4 configuration. Mids are a lot better though, and i must admit i'mrunning about 4* less timing through out the curve under boost since i liftedn the head so that might be the loss in top end as well as an incomplete burn causing rich readings on the WB02

Fuel milage has picked up a bit.. I was getting about 14mpg but now am averaging 16.5 (Still getting in it) and if i do NOTHING but rompopn it i'm still gettting 13.5MPG (and mind you i've been getting on it more than usual even under the 16mpg average to keep testing the manifold.

I moved my switch point to 4600RPM and turn off at 4400 RPM just to see.. it smoothed out more, made moremid range and hit hard on top when the valves opened. I can't complain, i just wish i would've finished the porting on it

EDIT: onmy setup with the "3rd port"the system will hold vacum for about 4 minutes with the engine off, so mine won't open until the solenoid releases the vacum that's trapped in there, regaurdless of boost coming on

I honestly can't remember the reason why I went with this solenoid when installing it a couple of years ago. I know that I tried several different solenoids that are normally open and then close when energized. For some reason, when I tested them this one worked the best.

Glenn, how does the car feel on the freeway? A few guys have posted about significant improvement in acceleration when passing, etc

on the freeway the onset of boost is insane as well as the torque levels in those RPM ranges, no down shifting required

what turbo are you running?
here is a graph of hta35r/2.3 with cyclone. the spool is pretty bad in this graph. during street tuning we saw 30psi in the 4100-4600 range in third. sloppy meth injection didnt give consistent fast spool. the runners are controlled with t25 actuator. I like the wastegate method because they open progressively. start to open at 14psi and fully open at 24psi.
4000rpm is 47mph 3rd gear, shutdown at 7400rpm. on the street it pulls hard to 8000rpm.
also keep in mind the car weighs 2560 so its not loaded very hard.

94awdcoupe said:

what turbo are you running?

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I think this was directed at Glenn. But if not, I have an E3 16G. I believe the one listed in Glenn's signature is UTD.

94awdcoupe said:

what turbo are you running?
here is a graph of hta35r/2.3 with cyclone. the spool is pretty bad in this graph. during street tuning we saw 30psi in the 4100-4600 range in third. sloppy meth injection didnt give consistent fast spool. the runners are controlled with t25 actuator. I like the wastegate method because they open progressively. start to open at 14psi and fully open at 24psi.
4000rpm is 47mph 3rd gear, shutdown at 7400rpm. on the street it pulls hard to 8000rpm.
also keep in mind the car weighs 2560 so its not loaded very hard.

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that a JGS BOV youre running?

I'm runninhg a custom hx40 (it was an H1c that i put an HX40 8 blade 58mm compressor wheel and housing on and then machined out a garrett 5 bolt t3 housing to accept the hx35 sized turbine wheel.

Now.. onto my darwin award for the week.. Earlier i said i knew i was losing somepower up top because the AFR"s were rich and i could feel the "lag" in the top

well get this, i start doing a BLT today and find NOTHING leaking so i start inspecting the setup on the cyclone activation and what did i find???? When i was cleaning up the routing on the solenoid and cavum lines i mixed up the two on the solenoid so although it was letting boost out it was not releasing vacum.. I swapped them around went for another ride and BAM!!!! power was back in full force and the AFR's were lean as hel fromthe tuning I had been doing to compensate for the richness i was getting out of this setup (while it wasn't working correctly), so to sum it up my secondary runners hadn't been opening since the first test drives before i tucked the hoses and cleaned it all upi had done with it not functioning correctly

stupid me, but at least i can admit my mistakes

i'mactually surprised as to how well it was doing running on "half runners" the last week or so , now except the torque gain i can't tell a difference between this one and the regular old 1g intake and i like that

So now how are you running the vacuum lines to and from the solenoid?

I just swapped them... the bottom port now gets vacumsource from the manifold/check valve and feeds it through the port the comes out on a 90* angle on the other end of the solenoid

Here's what was happening.. when nonenergized the side and bottom ports flow freely to each other and the 3rd"p[ort" (more like the vent) is closed.. once you energize the solenoidthe bottom port becomes blocked off and the side port breathes ouit eh vent onthe top

Previousely the bottomline went to the actuator andthe side/top port was afterthe check valve, I just swapped them out and now the difference is really nice. I think before (aside from when i was "rough testing with it working) the extra kick i felt around the same RPMi activate it at was just the fact that i get into the turboes efficiency range as well as start ramping timing

I have to stop here my meds are kicking in and i have no realcontrol overmy hands.. i can tell themn what to do but they aren't listening this took 7 minutes to write)