I have read a bit on tuning n/a 4g63's and the one thing I see alot of is useless interjections that basically state GET A TURBO.... It isn't that I don't want one but I like my n/a and it's more reliable. I bought my first DSM 4 years ago it was a 92 laser rs and the first time i drove it i was hooked and have been ever since! I have owned 2 lasers and just bought a 93 eagle talon which i love! It can be hard to find the right performance parts for n/a 4g63 because the market is flooded with turbo parts. My big goal with my 93 eagle talon is to get it clean outside and inside, get her to handle on rails, and to put down a respectable 175 to 185hp... To do this is alot of work but if u love it then it's not work at all. I'm excited to learn and to help others thru this forum! I'm a low budget baller and enjoy the challenges of taking the less travel N/T road because when i grease a turbo it will feel all the more gratifying, even if i do need a 150 shot of no2

Low budget and NA power should not be in the same line of thought.

You will spend more to make less.

Leave it stock, get a wideband, MegaSquirt and run a big wet shot.

Or do all that then boost it, sell the MS, pick up a turbo fuel pump, AT FPR, MT FI Injectors and get Link.

Yea i also agree your gonna end up spending alot more money trying to make a n/t faster

Perhaps u missed the point of that thread, thank u for the advice though. I have great connections and don't have to pay for work it's parts and my time being the expenditure. I'm going for 175hp nothing crazy and I'll buy a 4g63T when I decide to start blowing money on maintenance and premiums. untill then i'm looking for advice on power and what i can do without machining. I would love getting link but don't feel I'll get it until I go turbo. There are other thing like paint and body im interested in too. Hey if i put 390 or 450cc injectors with webro fuel pump will i see difference in power without link our would it have to be tuned?

No point to injectors and a pump till you can move enough oxygen to justify the purchase.

You got a long way to go.

Just adding injectors and a pump will not give you power. Dialing in a tune that would make power is going to require pulling fuel and adding timing to extract more more from the airflow you currently have.

You are air-limited, not fuel limited.

Spray, and lots of it.

EclipseOwner95 said:

Spray, and lots of it.

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Yup, that was my initial thought.

Big wet shot. Start small work your way up.

And note, that just like a turbo.. that nitrous is adding more oxygen than the engine would otherwise be able to ingest.

So in that sense you are still cheating on your "NA Purist" mantra BS

the no2 comment was a jk simply saying that's the only way i'll pull on a turbo, anyways ## elitest attitudes don't help much. how about i pull more oxygen by increasing flow thru mandrel bent exhaust, bored and polished throttle body, os cams, TB coolant bypass, high flow cat, hacking the maf, running synthetic to reduce over all engine friction, removing ac pump, etc... u see those are things of a helpful nature F.Y.I. just sayin.... If you don't have any real knowledge associated with the question at hand then keep ## thoughts to youself please. N/A PURIST comment was not needed and is offensive.

I'm just saying in general id like to make my dsm clean and fun with a little more power and any ideas that don't point to saying ## wasting ## time and money are going to be valued. yeah i do in fact know i have alot to do i just started... i joined this forum for positive feed back and to be a DSMer, so far i'm not feeling the love... yeah someday i'll ditch the n/a engine and go full on turbo and when i do and some guy goes "hey how can i make more power with my n/a" i'll go "here's what i did" not "well u have a long way to go your wasting ## time". For now i own a n/a and i'm in no race to make tons of power right away cost effective. i just want to enjoy modding what i got. i don't plan on making the most power possible with the n/a engine that is a big commitment thus me saying what can i do without machining.

Well that's cool that you want to make power N/A, but your goal of 175whp just isn't going to happen with bolt ons. You posted all of those things, so you obviously know what you need to do to make power, so my next question is, what exactly is this thread for?

You just named pretty much everything you can do to the car short of building a high compression bottom end. Intake manifold, cams, header, mandrel exhaust, larger tb, eliminate a/c and p/s, lightweight flywheel, cold air intake, delete the cat, larger spark plug wires, mill the head to raise compression, advance the ignition timing using the CAS, and some sort of tuning.

With all of that I'd guess maybe 150 at the wheels.

the point in the first place was to say hello and talk about my goals, then i guess it took a turn . I've heard of guys getting 200 at wheels but that just crazy. 150 at the wheels would be impressive, i was reffering to the crank and there is generally 17% to 20% between crank to tires. All the things I posted are just cheap ideas of things to add power to make a point that no one bothered mentioning. i'm testing the waters and seeing what kind of support u guys have is all. there are still plent of other things to and aside from engine talk our cars are all the same so what other things can i do? i mean yeah i posted that stuff but where would u start and what would you do aside from boosting and juicing it?

the point in the first place was to say hello and talk about my goals, then i guess it took a turn . I've heard of guys getting 200 at wheels but that just crazy. 150 at the wheels would be impressive, i was reffering to the crank and there is generally 17% to 20% between crank to tires. All the things I posted are just cheap ideas of things to add power to make a point that no one bothered mentioning. i'm testing the waters and seeing what kind of support u guys have is all. there are still plent of other things to and aside from engine talk our cars are all the same so what other things can i do? i mean yeah i posted that stuff but where would u start and what would you do aside from boosting and juicing it?

I know I found a thread about n/t upgrades that are possible to make more power. (will try and find it for you)
I don't know if I bookmarked it or not, but if I remember correctly you wont need any more then a 190lph fuel pump and 390cc injectors any bigger would be pointless. Upgrade your cams and valve train, port your intake manifold and exhaust manifold, and go with a 2.5 inch manifold back exhaust. The rest I don't remember for sure, but from what the tech artical said if you have the pocket book you should be able to make around 200hp, but don't hold me to it.
You should also be able to squeeze more ponys out of the n/t by upgrading to higher compression pistons as well, just do your research on parts.

Also glad to see your not taking no shit from anyone and taking the tough road its very admirable!

buhay6 said:

I know I found a thread about n/t upgrades that are possible to make more power. (will try and find it for you)
I don't know if I bookmarked it or not, but if I remember correctly you wont need any more then a 190lph fuel pump and 390cc injectors any bigger would be pointless. Upgrade your cams and valve train, port your intake manifold and exhaust manifold, and go with a 2.5 inch manifold back exhaust. The rest I don't remember for sure, but from what the tech artical said if you have the pocket book you should be able to make around 200hp, but don't hold me to it.
You should also be able to squeeze more ponys out of the n/t by upgrading to higher compression pistons as well, just do your research on parts.

Also glad to see your not taking no shit from anyone and taking the tough road its very admirable!

Found the tech artical : Tech Guide: 1G 4G63 N/T Upgrades - DSMtuners

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I admire your advice to him to try to help, but 200hp is NOT going to happen, not even close. This engine brand new will put down 110-115hp stock. Even with all of the mods that I listed he would be lucky to see a 50whp gain, and that's being optimistic, probably be closer to a 35-40whp gain. If his engine is in tip top shape he might be looking at 160-165 at the wheels, for a few thousand dollars in mods and a ton of labor. But if that's what he wants to do so be it.

I've been here many years and seen plenty of threads like these pop up over the years and I've yet to see one be completed in the terms they are describing. If you can make it happen more power to you, most people just end up realizing that it's just not feasible to invest so much money with so little return.

Looking forward to seeing some dynos once you do it. Prove me wrong! Good luck!

yeah the european 4g63 n/a puts 150 hp whereas the american models run 140hp, they have higher compression. like said before 175 to 185 would be pleasing, especially if i dump 200 pounds!

I agree with you 100% on that, the only guy to do it that i have found is the dude that set the landspeed record for 2.0 to 3.0 truck class and his list of mods is pages long! Again I'm not trying to be that guy! I will not be rebuilding the bottom end or any major machining. Boring the TB is abouth the extent of it and its ### i can have it done for about $200. How about suspention and brakes???

wiscoDSMer said:

yeah the european 4g63 n/a puts 150 hp whereas the american models run 140hp, they have higher compression. like said before 175 to 185 would be pleasing, especially if i dump 200 pounds!

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Your speaking in terms of crank horsepower, which means nothing. 180-190 crank hp = around 145-150whp. Which is right around what I said you should be able to make.

You can just buy an aftermarket TB for around $200-$250.

Like I said don't hold me to it, I know I seen a thread about it some where a month or two back (was an old old thread). The thread I posted wasn't the (hence why I took it down) one I was talking about I thought it was but the one I seen was 2 pages long of discussion.

Either way, I'm just trying to give idea's on how to squeeze more pony's out of a n/t and upgrading to a 10:1 compression pistons would in my mind be the place to start, from the bottom up.

buhay6 said:

Like I said don't hold me to it, I know I seen a thread about it some where a month or two back (was an old old thread). The thread I posted wasn't the (hence why I took it down) one I was talking about I thought it was but the one I seen was 2 pages long of discussion.

Either way, I'm just trying to give idea's on how to squeeze more pony's out of a n/t and upgrading to a 10:1 compression pistons would in my mind be the place to start, from the bottom up.

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Well he stated that he's not building a motor, which would be the way to make over 200, but he's already voiced that he's not interested in doing so. But your right, that would be the best way to go about an N/A build.

Dont be upset about some of the things people will tell you, from my experience in this forum if you dont have a turbo you are a sinner, this people should just not post when they see a N/T thread and read your first post.

They are N/T haters as much as Honda haters.

You are going to be called all kinds of things, in a lot of these instances a lot of them have never done an engine themselves.
Are you staying w/ the 2.0 or thinking of going bigger, that is where you will get the most for your money, the rest is just good old high perf. engine building.

Your HP goals are reasonable and it is not going to brake the bank

EclipseOwner95 said:

Well he stated that he's not building a motor, which would be the way to make over 200, but he's already voiced that he's not interested in doing so. But your right, that would be the best way to go about an N/A build.

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Ya I seen that right after I posted my last reply but was to lazy to do anything about it. And seeing what your car looks like, aka engine bay (pure sex!) your far more knowledgeable then me about dsm's. I've learnt a shit ton in the last year but still have lots more to learn.
I'm also taking a not to commonly traveled route (temporarily) and having a n/t AWD till I can build my turbo engine up and see what I can get out of a 14b setup. the only thing holding me up is body work and paint!

arrowhead said:

Dont be upset about some of the things people will tell you, from my experience in this forum if you dont have a turbo you are a sinner, this people should just not post when they see a N/T thread and read your first post.

They are N/T haters as much as Honda haters.

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A truer statement has never been made!! the turbo guys hate the n/t's with a passion and basically say they should be scrap metal!

Just do bolt ons and throw on a 100 shot. So you can cruise and when you wanna race you can have all that power with the press of a button. Nitrous can get quite expensive though after you refill it numerous times.

Honestly though, after you end up doing all those bolt ons and mods, you will be pretty close to the price of a turbo setup. I personally would just save up for a turbo but to each his own. You're just gonna spend a lot more in the long run...

arrowhead said:

Dont be upset about some of the things people will tell you, from my experience in this forum if you dont have a turbo you are a sinner, this people should just not post when they see a N/T thread and read your first post.

They are N/T haters as much as Honda haters.

You are going to be called all kinds of things, in a lot of these instances a lot of them have never done an engine themselves.
Are you staying w/ the 2.0 or thinking of going bigger, that is where you will get the most for your money, the rest is just good old high perf. engine building.

Your HP goals are reasonable and it is not going to brake the bank

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hypothetically if i were to stick real money into a N/A 4g63 and really wanted to rock the socks off turbo guys with attitudes I go ground up, bored and stroked 2.4 or bigger, port and polish every last inch of intake and head, have intake custom built as would be the headers which would be all of the exhaust when dump offs get turn on and run on meth. No lag no boggy response just pure power at the foot. I'd be willing to bet with 8k to 10k and the right plugs u could make 500hp all day. add turbos to that and see 1000hp plus

wiscoDSMer said:

hypothetically if i were to stick real money into a N/A 4g63 and really wanted to rock the socks off turbo guys with attitudes I go ground up, bored and stroked 2.4 or bigger, port and polish every last inch of intake and head, have intake custom built as would be the headers which would be all of the exhaust when dump offs get turn on and run on meth. No lag no boggy response just pure power at the foot. I'd be willing to bet with 8k to 10k and the right plugs u could make 500hp all day. add turbos to that and see 1000hp plus

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This is remarkably ignorant.

You should really look into what a 2.4L 500whp NA motor entails as well as what that power band looks like before you make silly statements like this.

You would be better off buying a Cosworth 90* 2.4l V8 (500BHP) and retrofitting that to your DSM as it is going to be both prohibitively expensive (think F1 World Series Car budget) and damn near impossible to pull that off with a N/A 4G63 as your platform, if its not actually impossible.

Then there is the maintainence and longevity associated with a high-strung NA motor. Good luck.

Some of you guys mistake our derision for anything other than reality check, and that is your problem more than anything else.

You want to be respected and all that, but then you go ahead and make proclamations like that and put everyone back at square one.

Sheer incredulity is basically what you are on the receiving end of.

If you want to make 200whp, let alone 500whp.. go with what I and others told you in our first responses:

Leave it stock, get a wideband, MegaSquirt and run a big wet shot.

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The 4G63 can handle a shot big enough to meet either goal, but on a DIY garage build there is no f*cking way you are going to make 500whp NA.

200whp is already quite a mountain to climb.

wiscoDSMer said:

hypothetically if i were to stick real money into a N/A 4g63 and really wanted to rock the socks off turbo guys with attitudes I go ground up, bored and stroked 2.4 or bigger, port and polish every last inch of intake and head, have intake custom built as would be the headers which would be all of the exhaust when dump offs get turn on and run on meth. No lag no boggy response just pure power at the foot. I'd be willing to bet with 8k to 10k and the right plugs u could make 500hp all day. add turbos to that and see 1000hp plus

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I think you might be getting too far out on left field, keep your mind on realistic goals, you are not going to blow the socks off the turbos, neither are you going to grease many unless you have a good build and they are running like crap.

It is not in the books, dime per dime, it is cheaper to build a N/A engine than a turbo in the long run, it all depends on your goals, you will not get the same power but you still have a lot of fun.

HP levels as you are hoping are OK. and I think the big break comes at about 300 hp. below that is reasonable, above and not much, it gets serious.

Stay within your goals, you do not have to have a turbo to enjoy your ride, the word PERFORMANCE does not apply only to HP or turbos or a straight line.

Get off that 500 number.