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turboed 420a vs factory gst

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Lot of misinformation in this forum. Normal rule of thumb a turbo GS/RS will beat a stock GST. Granted you are talking 2 grand car vs a 2 grand car with a 2 grand upgrade (generalizing).

IMO the 420a has a lot of potential and is a great car. Not only that is makes a great DD.

With that said it is hard to beat the powerhouse of the 4G63 in terms of dollar per horsepower. If you want a better answer than that you need to get way more specific and not bench race

(to correct some misinformation, DSM-Zero is well above 661hp at the moment, and GENERALLY speaking a 420a can handle more than 7psi on a stock block, but cant compare to the craziness that the 4G63 can handle on a stock block)
 
Fotowntalon said:
(to correct some misinformation, DSM-Zero is well above 661hp at the moment, and GENERALLY speaking a 420a can handle more than 7psi on a stock block, but cant compare to the craziness that the 4G63 can handle on a stock block)
Click to expand...

Not with stock fueling you're not. Just to clarify. The block can and has handled much more.

The 420a CAN make power - it simply costs money. When people refer to running "5psi" of boost, I would assume they are referring on the stock setup. IE : Fuel, Ignition, Tune, etc.

Again, however, there is more than enough information covering this.
 
if ## building a car were u have a budget, and or wanna copy a build thats been done over an over then build a 4g63

but if u actually want a challenge then build a 420a, but be prepared to dish out some cash to build ## engine to be able to handle the boost that you throw at it.

heres a vid i love of a 420a smoking a gsx.. :thumb:


gsx vs built avenger - YouTube
 
LOL I look good an camera LOL. UN tuned ( i was running super rich, and using auto tune to get me in the ballpark, still wasnt helping) 8 Psi on a s20g and log. Yes i spent more then 2k, but ive also got something unique , thats what i paid for and wanted. needless to say not many thought i could touch an allmighty GSX, granted driver skill plays a part, any car can be built. this platform is deff not popular, thus there less parts, and they are more expensive. I give props to the 4g6X engine, great platform, but imo its over played. most can buy bolt ons and go, thats all fine and dandy, but it not what thise sports about. idk just my .02 this yr ill be running the built 2.4 with a different manifold and a Billet PTE dual ball bearing 5857 , and Erik frp ASP will be assisting in the tune. i hope to have traction to say the least LOL.

last yrs setup:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/app...108-build-pix-built-2-4-avenger-progress.html
 
So you have the record holding 420A making less and running slower than what a well worn stock 6 bolt is capable of with an incredible amount of cash invested, and then another video of a 20G 420A just outrunning a seemingly stock GSX with a crap driver on big ass purple rims..

Am I missing something here?

Whats played out? Making good reliable power on a solid platform that was originally homologized for WRC?

Or is it played out pretending that the 420A isnt the meak redheaded stepchild that is usually hacked together when turbo'd and the reason it is fabled to fail at "7psi" is because most of the owners that go down this road have no business attempting to cobble together their own turbo system and tune it, while not researching and cutting corners left and right, but pointing to the handful of functioning examples built by owners who actually took the time to do it right?

Are the myriad iterations of the 4G63T more played out than convincing yourself that "uh well its make more power then a stock gst when you dump a couple grand in" while completely ignoring how factually void that statement is?

The mental gymnastics some of you will go through is astonishing.

If you want to turbo a 420A, just do it.

Dont come bother trying to rationalize your decision to the world and proselytizing to make you feel better about the car you chose when it is in every objective manner an inferior platform to the alternative that is available to the chassis.

Its silly. As someone who makes a good deal of income on the side retrofitting and tuning forced induction systems on factory NA cars this discussion just baffles sometimes.

If its your car be proud of it and enjoy it but don't try and make it out to be something its not, thats what insecure people do.

Like calling yourself a sanitation engineer when you drive a garbage truck. LOL
 
I loved my 420 turbo. With my setup i was faster than a stock gst. Granted i was running a 16g sized turbo and pushing what the engine (and front tires) could handle. I loved it and i will do it again. Just need to find one thats not 2500 dollars WITH a bad tranny.
 
LandSpeed-DSM said:
So you have the record holding 420A making less and running slower than what a well worn stock 6 bolt is capable of with an incredible amount of cash invested, and then another video of a 20G 420A just outrunning a seemingly stock GSX with a crap driver on big ass purple rims..

Am I missing something here?

Whats played out? Making good reliable power on a solid platform that was originally homologized for WRC?

Or is it played out pretending that the 420A isnt the meak redheaded stepchild that is usually hacked together when turbo'd and the reason it is fabled to fail at "7psi" is because most of the owners that go down this road have no business attempting to cobble together their own turbo system and tune it, while not researching and cutting corners left and right, but pointing to the handful of functioning examples built by owners who actually took the time to do it right?

Are the myriad iterations of the 4G63T more played out than convincing yourself that "uh well its make more power then a stock gst when you dump a couple grand in" while completely ignoring how factually void that statement is?

The mental gymnastics some of you will go through is astonishing.

If you want to turbo a 420A, just do it.

Dont come bother trying to rationalize your decision to the world and proselytizing to make you feel better about the car you chose when it is in every objective manner an inferior platform to the alternative that is available to the chassis.

Its silly. As someone who makes a good deal of income on the side retrofitting and tuning forced induction systems on factory NA cars this discussion just baffles sometimes.

If its your car be proud of it and enjoy it but don't try and make it out to be something its not, thats what insecure people do.

Like calling yourself a sanitation engineer when you drive a garbage truck. LOL
Click to expand...

What a breath of fresh air.

There are people building D-series honda engines and making power, doesn't mean your going to get support from the far superior K-series guys.

Same thing goes here. If you want to be different, or prove a point, go ahead, by all means, but don't come here looking for a pat on the back or for the majority to condone your decision. It simply isn't going to happen.

FWIW I'm on a tired stock bottom end with 125psi of compression across the board (stock is 165 for those who don't know.) Running 30-32psi and flowing 62-63 lb/min, you'd have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to even come close to that in a 420A, and I'm on a stock 4g on its last leg doing it effortlessly every weekend.
 
EclipseOwner95 said:

There are people building D-series honda engines and making power, doesn't mean your going to get support from the far superior K-series guys.
Click to expand...

What's a D/K series?

This isn't Tokyo Drift.

:p
 
i dont think anyone was looking for a pat on the back..

Im not really sure where the animosity between platforms comes from, like i said before , i respect the platform. What i meant by played out is, its become one of those cars that kids seek out, and just bolt parts too.. theres not much or many new advances that ive seen any , not to say theres not.

Theres alot of people on both platforms that have no business in these cars, the difference is, with your platform, the ground work is done for you, so just bolt and go.

Im not sure about that "reliable" statement, based on the ones local to me, but then again, thier build level could be questionable. what ev.

I always say cheap,fast , reliable, pick 2, no matter what the platform is. I like what i built, and i like 420a's, when theyre done right, same with 4g's.. when there done right. Just seems to me (and i could have mistaken your post) that you dont have any respect for any build no matter how well its done.. if its not 4g, then its not worth anything..Just my .02

+1 to this was a stupid question
and
+1 for this is bench racing : /
 
^ I don't agree with what your sayin bro. I don't think all the guys running in the 9's and even pushing 8's are just bolting on and going. That doesn't seem tired at all if you ask me! And for the 4g63 guys there are more and more coming up. It takes time and a now how to properly build, drive and maintain a dsm, no matter what platform. Also what was your e.t. on that run in the 20g 420a? With every car, make, model, platform there are people that just don't get it and think because this guy is running it I can do it to. Well we all see how untrue that is by this forum being littered with the same noob ? Over and over again. And countless posted about I think I blew this or why did this happen, when most have been clearly told what not to do and what to do. My wish for us as the "in my opinion" true dsm community of dsmtuners. That we could all respect each others platform be it 4g63, 420a, fwd, awd. Let's step out above the rest and truly represent DSM. I mean where are we going to go if we keep on with the my dad can beat your dad up mind set. Let's build cars lets help each other do it right and keep raising the bar that others dream to set. This is why my GST tag has been removed and replaced with DSM, that's simply what my car represents.
 
LOL, i didnt say they were either.. but that platform has been pushing great numbers and times like that for a good long while now, thats what i meant. Im sorry i wasnt clear, im referring to the majority of the 4g platform , most of the newbs( on both platforms) are more concerned about bragging rights then what it takes to actually build correctly.. I was not refering to the few who quest for 9s and 8s, they go beyond, which is great, but thats not for everyone on your platform,. I pretty much agree with everything you said.. Im just clearly not being clear.. ive seen to many of my platform and your platform destroyed by tards.. its sad. and your right, theres alot of newbs that refuse to take direction from those whom have done it or are in the know.

however, my point was, that most can just get bolt ons off ebay and go, while they wont be in the 9s, they will be decently quick. most choose that easy road, i guess thats more what im bugged about..thats why i gravitate twords the unique stuff , i want to see challenges faced and vested.. not some bolts turned, Thus why im not a huge fan of the skittle crowd..

My ET, no idea that night, i was untuned, and fighting traction..ill post some slips when i get back out there : )

Also as a side note, the boosted car is no longer 420a ; )
 
Don't you all know? We're just not cool enough for the 4g6X crowd LOL. It's the same 'ole story, every time some 4g6x guy asks about my car (whether they're a punk kid or a legit engine builder) it's the same response "oh, it's a 420a, ###".... or something condescending. Any jackass can destroy a 4g6x or a 420a, and anyone who knows how to build a car can make either fast.... It's so pointless to argue. But I will say, (and this is just my opinion and experience) the majority of the 4g6x crowd sure do think highly of themselves... Now, I'll take my pathetic 420a and wish I could be in the cool crowd LOL. Also, why are there always 4g63 members posting in the 420a section just bashing? Thought it was against the rules? Hardly anything constructive comes out of any of them......
 
sounds like the mustang crowd as well.. LOL.. I can say ive had very similar experiences, untill their doors are blown off .. then its , "dang what is that again?" I dont think they are all like that, but, many are unfortunately. Oh well.. OP : the gst will probably win untill the 420a has a better built bottom end. They can call it weak b.c it cant hold 7 psi stock, but news flash, it was never designed to. so why are we surprised?
 
Just FYI to you guys. That's why I challenge all of use to remove the factory tag be it gs,rs,gst,gsx and put DSM in its place. I have respect for all of you out there who are truly tuning and building. Honestly no matter what it is, which is why I still have my chevelles and also help my Subi and Honda friends tune. I'd love for use to become a community that just plain rocks dsm's and builds what we have.
 
I stated this long ago.

I chose my platform and im in it for the long haul.

Yes the 4g can make more power, yes it has better traction with its awd option.

Do I care? Not really. I loved my 420a and told many high and mighty 4g guys to kindly @@@@ off when they told me it was a crap platform.

Both are good cars with great engines. Let us fly the dsm flag as brothers in arms. Not the elitists and the wierd third cousin who is never in the family photos.
 
We'll never be accepted as a dsm by most of the 4g guys. They are superior and super cool with their 4th grade 4g platform and we are unfortunately uncool because of our 3rd grade 420a platform LOL. I have a ton of friends with many different types of platforms and we all can get along great because of open mindedness. Some people however, seem to think they are better simply because they have a certain car/platform, and I treat them the same way they treat me, with no respect. I just don't care to get along with and listen to the bs some people bring to the table at this point in my life. Screw 'em, do what makes YOU happy and don't let assholes get in the way of you goals and ambitions....
 
All I have to say is this: How is building a 420a somehow more of a "challenge" than building a 4g6X engine? Because it didn't come boosted? That hasn't stopped any other platform from putting out respectable numbers including the Civic crowd. I'll admit some 4g6X guys tend to have a bit of an attitude. But acting like the 4g6X platform is 9 second quarter miles for retards is condescending in itself. It's not all bolt-ons and fairy tails just because they came with a leaf blower from the factory.

And as a slight observation, I haven't seen one single thread started by a GST/GSX owner calling out 420a owners..... Just sayin.
 
WES_393 said:
All I have to say is this: How is building a 420a somehow more of a "challenge" than building a 4g6X engine? Because it didn't come boosted? That hasn't stopped any other platform from putting out respectable numbers including the Civic crowd. I'll admit some 4g6X guys tend to have a bit of an attitude. But acting like the 4g6X platform is 9 second quarter miles for retards is condescending in itself. It's not all bolt-ons and fairy tails just because they came with a leaf blower from the factory.

And as a slight observation, I haven't seen one single thread started by a GST/GSX owner calling out 420a owners. You guys sit here and call 4g owners assholes and group us all together as some stereotype. Yet anybody says one little thing about the 420a crowd and it's time for a keyboard showdown? Real mature. Way to represent your platform/crowd. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No one said it was harder to build a 420a than a 4g. What was meant was, you can buy a 4g and throw all the simple bolt ons on it, and it will be a fairly fast car, you buy all the bolt ons for a 420a and it won't be nearly as fast. It's harder to get the 420a as fast because you have to build the motor first, then take care of all the fuel/tuning needs. For a 4g, you don't really have to worry about that. Also, no one said ALL the 4g guys, I however said, "most of the ones that I've met". Obviously not all the 4g guys are pricks, but most of them have a condescending attitude, just my personal experience. So please don't think it's lumping ya'll into one category. As far as threads started by the 420a crowd calling out the gst/gsx owners, that's because they get so much shit for just having a 420a they are proud to announce when there's a fast 420a that can take out 90% of gst/gsx's. Most that I've seen weren't bashing either, more like friendly competition. Unlike the countless posts I've seen from 4g guys IN the 420a forums just bashing pointlessly......real mature.... :rolleyes:
 
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powellds2 said:
We'll never be accepted as a dsm by most of the 4g guys. They are superior and super cool with their 4th grade 4g platform and we are unfortunately uncool because of our 3rd grade 420a platform LOL. I have a ton of friends with many different types of platforms and we all can get along great because of open mindedness. Some people however, seem to think they are better simply because they have a certain car/platform, and I treat them the same way they treat me, with no respect. I just don't care to get along with and listen to the bs some people bring to the table at this point in my life. Screw 'em, do what makes YOU happy and don't let assholes get in the way of you goals and ambitions....
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with people thinking that they are better are more cool. It's all about facts for the most part. Can the 420a be made fast, sure, can it be made faster than a gst or gsx for the same amount of money, not likely.
 
powellds2 said:
No one said it was harder to build a 420a than a 4g. What was meant was, you can buy a 4g and throw all the simple bolt ons on it, and it will be a fairly fast car, you buy all the bolt ons for a 420a and it won't be nearly as fast. It's harder to get the 420a as fast because you have to build the motor first, then take care of all the fuel/tuning needs. For a 4g, you don't really have to worry about that. Also, no one said ALL the 4g guys, I however said, "most of the ones that I've met". Obviously not all the 4g guys are pricks, but most of them have a condescending attitude, just my personal experience. So please don't think it's lumping ya'll into one category. As far as threads started by the 420a crowd calling out the gst/gsx owners, that's because they get so much shit for just having a 420a they are proud to announce when there's a fast 420a that can take out 90% of gst/gsx's. Most that I've seen weren't bashing either, more like friendly competition. Unlike the countless posts I've seen from 4g guys IN the 420a forums just bashing pointlessly......real mature.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Point taken. I agree that I would much rather hang out with guys from different platforms than most 4g63/Evo guys in my area. It only takes one bad egg... But my overall point is that so long as both sides fail to respect each other this debate will never end. And from where I sit, it's fueled by both sides. And most of the "bashing" I have seen in NT forum is simply stating the facts yet taken the wrong way. If someone is on a tight budget but wants a fun weekend warrior, nobody is going to suggest the 420a. No disrespect, it's just not ideal.
 
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bryanwheat said:
It has nothing to do with people thinking that they are better are more cool. It's all about facts for the most part. Can the 420a be made fast, sure, can it be made faster than a gst or gsx for the same amount of money, not likely.
Click to expand...

Therefor it's harder to do simply because parts are harder to come by and mostly has to be custom.... And you're telling me that a lot of 4g owners don't stomp around the 420a forum acting like they're platform is the so damn superior...... ...??come on......
 
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