Recently switched to V3 SD, trying to get the tune dialed in and cant seem to get my #s to make sense. I posted this on Link and didnt get much for feedback, so thought Id try here.

My OpenLoopMaxOct is tuned down to 8.0 A/F (max) and I was still running lean!
I 'added' in the fuel sliders and now am a bit on the rich side (will be correcting our next dry day).

Almost looks like the fuel pump isnt carrying its end?

Heres what I have and have done:

2.0L, 8.3:1 wiseco, kelford 280s, 93 Oct + methanol
a1000 pump (low miles)
AFPR (43.5 base, verified that it goes down with vacuum and rises ~1:1 with boost with engine off + pump on via link)
1350 injectors (second hand with supposedly low miles, checked for clean filter baskets)
Boost leaks = Couple small ones
Got a decent idle/cruising tune; global -69.5, deadtime 610.

Sending the injectors for cleaning seems possibly fruitful?

If anybody has a good idea, let me know!
Thanks

Rethink ALL of what you just said and look at your settings again... . If they don't make sense there may be a reason. Also you should be making your adjustments in the VE table not using the sliders. your "SD fuel Tables" are untouched aside from the huge area of low spots...

I'm not sure what would posses you to use the fuel sliders to add that much fuel and lower you Target Afr to 8:1

I'd say take off your oil cap and take a smell in there... .

As my first guess would be that if your Wideband isn't reading right.

Well, just that... that it's not reading right.

Oh and as always with everyone stop doing WOT pulls till you get you Idle and cruise addressed there isn't any info in that log of that... .

Idk thinking out loud I guess... .

77% duty on 1350's?

MY1GDSM said:

Rethink ALL of what you just said and look at your settings again... . If they don't make sense there may be a reason. Also you should be making your adjustments in the VE table not using the sliders. your "SD fuel Tables" are untouched aside from the huge area of low spots...

I'm not sure what would posses you to use the fuel sliders to add that much fuel and lower you Target Afr to 8:1

Click to expand...

I was running >13:1 with stock Open Loop Fuel requests? I made adjustments with the OpenLoopOct table first, then used fuel sliders. I should make the adjustment in the VE table for fuel? I tried this way and my airflow #s werent close at all so that tuning my WOT VE table would have been via wideband, this made less sense to me - incorrect?

MY1GDSM said:

I'd say take off your oil cap and take a smell in there... .

As my first guess would be that if your Wideband isn't reading right.

Well, just that... that it's not reading right.

Oh and as always with everyone stop doing WOT pulls till you get you Idle and cruise addressed there isn't any info in that log of that... .

Idk thinking out loud I guess... .

77% duty on 1350's?

Click to expand...

Good thought -> Wideband has <500mi on it. Gauge value and logged value is appropriate.
I already gave info on my cruise tune, should I post one?

MY1GDSM said:

Idk thinking out loud I guess...

Click to expand...

Agreed.

What is the injector duty cycle? Also have you checked that all the "hardware" pieces on the car are good and not leaking anywhere as well? There's things you can't tune around like lack of fuel pressure and the like that are very dangerous to your engine, I'd say you're lucky that with it being that far out you didn't do any damage doing WOT pulls while trying to tune out what's more than likely an issue with either the setup of the software, a bad sensor (either MAP or the wideband), or worse yet a lack of fuel flow to the injectors.

Something is seriously whacked here.

For starters, you need to set your AFR DA tables back to something reasonable like 10.8 or so (or just load up some stock tables), zero the fuel sliders, load a good starter VE table (Gofer or RRE Sam have a good one... ask them nicely and they may help you out , and start methodically tracking down the issue.

Have you checked the fuel filter? Pull the return fuel line and put it in a bucket, turn on the pump in Link and time how long it takes to fill 2 gallons or so. That will let you verify the pump is flowing what it should, at least at low pressures.

Is this a 2.0L or 2.3L? What type of fuel? Have you verified the logged MAP value with a guage?

Thanks for the replies, guys.
Ive checked hardware that made sense to check. Just pulled the fuel filter again (correct direction, cellulose looks clean and air moves thru freely). FPR checked in first post.


I have 22psi springs in my wastegates, thats the ONLY reason Im posting logs with this boost #. I know, 2 springs are probably cheaper than the engine.

The MAP sensor is ~ correct with my gauge #. Peeking down, the #s are close Id say.

I followed the SD setup vigilantly (AirFlowPerRev = .25, got my combinedFT to cycle around 0 (+/- 8-10%) with deadtime tuning). I had to do AirFlowPerRev @ 1500ish (Q45 TB is giving me some grief), but it's my understanding that the RPM is insignificant, so long as its constant.

My O2 cycles are a little crappy and usually tend to be on the richer side of 14.7, but I attributed this to being 3' down the exhaust.

So I did my initial setup like this then did my first pull and it was alarmingly lean (>13:1 WITH methanol). Ive been leaving the meth on for tuning safety since I cant run lower boost # (more variables, I know). I did what makes sense: added fuel. I had another member suggest the same as you calan - return fuel tables to stock and tune with VE. I did this and attached the log below. Also equally ridiculous high duty cycles with ~stock fuel map due to elevated VE #s. Looking @ my normal VE table, seems appropriate and similar to other members (albeit Im new to SD). When I use VE adjust (CombFT), the suggested changes arent usually too different from my preexisting values.

Ill check the pump for gal/min when I get an extra set of hands this afternoon as well as re-do everything from the beginning.
Engine info is updated on first post.
Thanks again.

So you know there are boost leaks and your still trying to dial in your car? You need to make sure you there are no boost leaks!

+1 on fixing the boost leaks first.

Minor boost leaks shouldn't be making that big a difference on his SD setup, unless he's got a big one after the MAP sensor somewhere. (Although they do need to be fixed).

At this point I'm leaning towards a mechanical problem with fuel flow.

Just got a flow value from the pump - 175oz/minute @ 12v. This ends up around ~600 LPH or 158 GPH @.
MAP sensor is screwed into the manifold.
Boost leaks taken care of except for the boost controller (ingersoll-rand). I was dragging my feet figuring it couldnt be responsible for such bad #s.
Ill post a log in a few hr.
Thanks again for helping with the troubleshooting, fellas.

Do you have access to a 100psi sensor (like this one)? If so, you could wire it up and see what's going on with your fuel pressure as boost goes up and pump voltage drops.

You may have a voltage issue similar to this going on, or you may be pushing the pump past the HP relief valve's crack point. (I've had both a Walbro and a DW pump that bled pressure before they should have).

EDIT: Just saw that you have the A1000 pump... don't know much (anything) about it, but anything is possible.

Also...

Calan said:

Is this a 2.0L or 2.3L?

What type of fuel?

Click to expand...

Calan said:

Is this a 2.0L or 2.3L?

What type of fuel?

Click to expand...

2.0L, 93 Oct - updated in 1st post.
Alternator bracket broke off cruising today - hopefully running in a week.

Are you sure those are 1350 injectors? I don't see anything to suggest a fuel pressure issue. That would normally show up as an uncontrolled lean out that got worse as fuel demand increased. But your first log shows a pretty constant (although lean) AFR even as fuel demand went from 2500 cc/min up to 3500 cc/min.

I don't see any part throttle or closed loop areas in your log. If I could, that would help determine if it's just an injector flow issue or not. Just based on the WOT areas, they're acting more like 950s.

Thomas Dorris

twdorris said:

Are you sure those are 1350 injectors? I don't see anything to suggest a fuel pressure issue. That would normally show up as an uncontrolled lean out that got worse as fuel demand increased. But your first log shows a pretty constant (although lean) AFR even as fuel demand went from 2500 cc/min up to 3500 cc/min.

I don't see any part throttle or closed loop areas in your log. If I could, that would help determine if it's just an injector flow issue or not. Just based on the WOT areas, they're acting more like 950s.

Thomas Dorris

Click to expand...

Thanks for replying, Tom. Ive been suspicious of these being the problem. "1350" is etched into the bottom of each - since the car is down anyhow, I sent the injectors out to be tested/cleaned; they had been sitting around (in saran wrap) for 9+ months and had seen some E85, so I thought Id eliminate this variable/problem too while Im waiting anyhow. Hopefully get a good log (with cruise...) up next week. Thanks again.

I believe we will be getting Cody's injectors in here shortly from FIC for some more in-depth testing. Will see what we find. This may be a case of using injectors that just aren't sized well for your application or it may be a problem elsewhere in the system or it may be a problem with one or more of these specific injectors. Hopefully we'll know a little more on that later.

Is there any chance you can beg/borrow/steal a set of stock EVO or DSM injectors for testing? That would really help get everything else *but* the injectors dialed in first and then you can be sure any remaining issues you run into are related to the injectors.

Thomas Dorris

Id think so, Ill get my tune straight (hopefully) today then - thanks!

Heres an update on where Im stuck:

Got the injectors back - serviced @ FIC, tested @ ECMLink
Set up my idle/cruising VE table with stock 450s.
Dropped the 1350s in with ECMLink suggested data - did minor retuning.
WOT - still leaning out, so my VE table is all 115%+ and still less than ECU requested value.
Pump on, FPR comes up to 80psi easy - I was getting close to bottoming it out, so stopped there. Base pressure is now 44psi.
I had a 'T' on the FPR line, so I redid vacuum lines and gave it its own port on the manifold.

Stated previously:
Tested the pump flow with the car off @ 12v - ~600LPH measured.
Tested the FPR + pump with a bike pump. 30psi on the bike pump = ~75psi fuel pressure on gauge.
Low mileage LC-1 WB, <20hr on it Id guess.
Rechecked Filters for quality and direction.

Other maybe relevant info?
-14inHg @ idle on mechanical gauge
2.0L
Kelford 280s (timed), polk head
20psi springs in the wastegates, otherwise Id be tuning @ 10psi.
The machinist had to hone the engine out ~.002", I checked all the ring gaps and they are a bit exaggerated because of this (.021 top, .030 bottom).

I attached 3 logs here, VE and VE+15 are showing that it is getting richer by increasing VE (but not appropriately), dont have an explanation why its worse @ 4-4.5k? Id think max VE was more likely 5.5-6k, some other reason I guess. Regardless, the 10% VE increase 4-4.5k yielded AFR change from 12.3-11.2 or so, so this seems appropriate.
The idle/cruse log also attached, sorry, I stopped the log out of habit. The only difference with this log is the way the injectors are # (Injbatadj vs Global DT), WOT logs look identical with either setting.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks for the help/input already guys!

Are you absolutely sure you don't have any exhaust leaks?

Raise your global fuel to something like -65% (keeping everything else the same), and see how much it richens up.

Exhaust leaks - its s 4" Vband setup, I havent been able to appreciate much for leaks in ft of it, but Ill confirm this after work. Its 30" downwind of the turbine housing, should I toss a bung in closer?