oh, and who cares if the system is abused? Not literally, but can you name a single one that isn't? On top of that:


Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

Just because you smoke it doesn't mean you're worthless, stupid, or lower than anyone else. I have a friend getting straight A's in some advanced physics courses at Notre Dame that smokes daily. On top of that, a friend's 56 year old uncle that was a professor at Notre Dame for 25 years (give or take a few, I don't remember exactly) that smoked every night before he went to sleep so he could get a better, deeper sleep (which has been scientifically proven). It isn't addicting, yet alcohol and tobacco are. It has such a bad rep due to being associated with the words "getting high", the same words associated with "getting high" off of extremely lethal, damaging drugs such as cocaine, meth, or shooting up, etc. It's because of these stereotypes that its image is viewed so negatively and as a terrible, dangerously destructive, illegal activity.

mnelsen said:

Tobacco 435,0001
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,0001
Alcohol 85,000 1
Microbial Agents 75,0001
Toxic Agents 55,0001
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,3471
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,0002
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,0001
Homicide 20,3084
Sexual Behaviors 20,0001
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,0001, 5
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,6006
Marijuana 07

Click to expand...

Are those numbers deaths? Because nobody has actually died FROM marijuana in the history of the world. But due to our biased system, someone who smoked a joint on Monday, and got shot to death on Wednesday, that death will get attributed to marijuana. Guy smokes pot once when he is 21, falls off a cliff when he is 49, "Yep. Was the damn pot that got him."

Reminds me of the Bill Hicks skit, when talking about the hypocrisy of things like religion. 'And on the 7th day, God rested.' "There it is, my creation, perfect and holy." (Few seconds pass as God looks around) "Oh my ME! I left f@ckin pot everywhere! That's gonna give people the impression that they are supposed to....use it. Oh well, now I gotta create Republicans..."

I dunno why but it decided to put an extra number or two after the others from the table i copy and pasted the statistics from. I just fixed it though. Those numbers are for 2010 too btw.

the only way to die from marijuana is oxygen deprivation. which unless you are using a gas mask i don't see that happening

minimotos95 said:

the only way to die from marijuana is oxygen deprivation.

Click to expand...

The only other way to die from it is to have an extreme specific pollen allergy. It's unbelievably unlikely, but it has apparantly happened before.

NosLaser said:

Why do we single out marijuana though? Why is it, that we are so unhappy as a society, that we always need something to hate?

I don't see anyone lashing out about the abuse of shitty food, and the chronic obesity in America. In fact it is quite the opposite. Speak out against a fat person with no self control and a shitty lifestyle that drains the f@ck out of our healthcare system, and you are called an asshole. And trust me, poor lifestyle choices via diet, etc. is probably the largest epidemic in this country, and guess who pays the toll? We would have 10% of the healthcare issues we have if people took responsibility for themselves, and educated themselves, and made the right lifestyle choices, because prevention is surely more effective than treatment.

And it's probably some fat ass sitting on the couch on medicaid shoving cheeseburgers and tasty cakes down their throat who is shouting the loudest about those "damn pot smokers" and all the dangers of marijuana.

Click to expand...

I agree.

The medical care costs of obesity in the United States are staggering. In 2008 dollars, these costs totaled about $147 billion

Click to expand...

^From the CDC^

Seems to me that people are abusing food. We should probably outlaw that too

T is for TURBO said:

^From the CDC^

Seems to me that people are abusing food. We should probably outlaw that too

Click to expand...

Not to mention:

The U.S. federal government spent over $15 billion dollars in 2010 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $500 per second.

Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

State and local governments spent at least another 25 billion dollars.

Source: Jeffrey A. Miron & Kathrine Waldock: "The Budgetary Impact of Drug Prohibition," 2010.

Click to expand...

I do hope the people reading this who are FOR marijuana prohibition realize where that money comes from. You see how 30+% of your paycheck is missing every week? It's going towards putting people in jail for having a completely natural plant in their pocket.

Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem a bit paranoid?

You are on their list when the fed raid the place and cease the customer database they are legally required to maintain.

A lot of dispensaries are required to have cameras linked to the police department, and their computers linked to the police department etc.

mnelsen said:

Post about neg rep...

Click to expand...

Dude, PM's. Stuff like this will get the thread locked, and an intellligent discussion can sometimes be rare in the Hangout. Most of the time it's about drawn on eyebrows and hello kitty tattoos.

Don't air stuff like that out in the forum, because people are going to take that and run with it.

Agreed. Handle it privately.

NosLaser said:

Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem a bit paranoid?

Click to expand...

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

LiquidX said:

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

Click to expand...

Can you pick a coca leaf and snort it? Can you pick some poppy and inject it? Peyote and "magic" mushrooms both occur naturally, you gonna outlaw poison ivy? (which would be a good idea, btw). The point they were trying to make is that most all of what you listed have to go through a process to be used. Pot you just have to pick and let dry out.

I do recall seeing a drug program on the Discovery channel where villagers in Bogota chew the coca leaves like tobacco to get a boost of energy. But in that form it is not addictive, only when man tampers with it to boost its potency.

LiquidX said:

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

Click to expand...

Why don't we make wood illegal too? Someone could just chop down a tree and carve a bat out of it, or a wooden stake...

LiquidX said:

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

Click to expand...

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, if you'd really like to go down that road. The difference is all the opiate based drugs have to go through a process in order to, shall we say, extract their properties. Psilocybin, THC, mescaline, etc. are available as nature intended, so at the very least, there is a pretty glaring difference.

Just a quick history lesson for you about 'crack.' Do you know why crack was made in the first place? Because Gov't protects the drug cartels. You know what I mean by that? By making drug laws, and arresting local sellers, or local growers for example, you are cutting supply. What this does is keep the prices high! Now the only people who can afford to stay in the game are those with deep enough pockets to control docks, have fleets of ships and planes, have control of infrastucture, etc. The Gov't keeps the prices nice and high just for them (whether intentional or unintentional) and what else would a monopolistic industry want? Crack was created, and is much worse for you than pure cocaine, because cocaine was too expensive.

Drug laws DON'T work. Hey, I have a great idea!! We don't like murder right? We can all agree that murder is usually a bad thing, correct? Hey, I know! Why don't we make it illegal?!!!? Then it will NEVER happen!

And do you know why drugs like cocaine, crack, crystal meth, and until recently, heroin, are all schedule 2 controlled substances while pot, mushrooms, and cactus are all schedule 1? For those of you following along and have no idea what that means, I will tell you. In a nutshell, the Gov't is basically telling us that pot and mushrooms are more dangerous, and more illegal, than crystal meth. Well doesn't that just make perfect sense?

The reason why drugs like coke, and meth, are schedule 2 is because they are all opiate based, much like the majority of our "prescription" drugs in the pharmaceutical industry. And the reason why they have a lower scheduling, is because pharmaceutical companies need to be able to handle these drugs without having to hold a DEA license. And these lovely companies then bring us wonderfully safe and awesome and legal stuff like Oxycontin, which surely hasn't ruined ANY lives, because afterall, it's legal, and nothing legal could be bad for you, right?

Whiplash said:

Why don't we make wood illegal too? Someone could just chop down a tree and carve a bat out of it, or a wooden stake...

Click to expand...

Water too. If you don't swim in it, you could drown.

The difference is, we are currently paying 60+ BILLION dollars a year to essentially protect adults from their own decisions. It would be like me coming to your house every week, and taking $100 out of your pocket to keep me from playing Playstation too long.

NosLaser said:

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, if you'd really like to go down that road. The difference is all the opiate based drugs have to go through a process in order to, shall we say, extract their properties. Psilocybin, THC, mescaline, etc. are available as nature intended, so at the very least, there is a pretty glaring difference.

Just a quick history lesson for you about 'crack.' Do you know why crack was made in the first place? Because Gov't protects the drug cartels. You know what I mean by that? By making drug laws, and arresting local sellers, or local growers for example, you are cutting supply. What this does is keep the prices high! Now the only people who can afford to stay in the game are those with deep enough pockets to control docks, have fleets of ships and planes, have control of infrastucture, etc. The Gov't keeps the prices nice and high just for them (whether intentional or unintentional) and what else would a monopolistic industry want? Crack was created, and is much worse for you than pure cocaine, because cocaine was too expensive.

Drug laws DON'T work. Hey, I have a great idea!! We don't like murder right? We can all agree that murder is usually a bad thing, correct? Hey, I know! Why don't we make it illegal?!!!? Then it will NEVER happen!

And do you know why drugs like cocaine, crack, crystal meth, and until recently, heroin, are all schedule 2 controlled substances while pot, mushrooms, and cactus are all schedule 1? For those of you following along and have no idea what that means, I will tell you. In a nutshell, the Gov't is basically telling us that pot and mushrooms are more dangerous, and more illegal, than crystal meth. Well doesn't that just make perfect sense?

The reason why drugs like coke, and meth, are schedule 2 is because they are all opiate based, much like the majority of our "prescription" drugs in the pharmaceutical industry. And the reason why they have a lower scheduling, is because pharmaceutical companies need to be able to handle these drugs without having to hold a DEA license. And these lovely companies then bring us wonderfully safe and awesome and legal stuff like Oxycontin, which surely hasn't ruined ANY lives, because afterall, it's legal, and nothing legal could be bad for you, right?

Click to expand...

It's nice to see someone else knows about scheduling

I personally don't think any of them should be legalized due to the fact that people will abuse and cause harm. We don't need to go into a spiel about alcohol however.

I do think it's silly that marijuana is a Schedule I when it should be a Schedule II or III. I do believe it will be lowered when it's more "proven" and understood in the medical field for it to be lowered.

I don't believe the crack talk you went on. People wanted cheaper cocaine, so you cut it and cook it to produce 'crack' which is then the only smoke-able form.

When used safely and properly, these legal drugs are fine for what their intended use is for. Yes there is a high addiction rate and it's well known which is why they aren't (supposed) to be handed out unless absolutely needed, much like a Fentanyl patch.

I'm not going to get into a fight with you over drugs because that's just stupid and there is no reason why people should be fighting about it in the first place. There are better things to argue about IMO

Besides, both you and I know that the route this is going, this thread will be locked. If you do have other things to mention, please PM

LiquidX said:

I personally don't think any of them should be legalized due to the fact that people will abuse and cause harm. We don't need to go into a spiel about alcohol however.

Click to expand...

You don't think our society already experiences the effects of drug abuse? It is no different than if the Gov't were to make guns illegal. The people who already obtain them illegally would continue to do so, and the law abiding citizens would be unarmed. So apply that to drugs. In my opinion, and I think it is a very realistic one, if all drugs were made legal, what would happen is the responsible people who don't smoke pot for example simply because of its legality, may start to smoke, and will likely do it responsibly. Those are probably the same people who also drink responsibly. I seriously doubt that you or anyone would ever convince me that a responsible, prominent member of regular society (such as a Doctor, or an Engineer) would hear about drugs being legal, and start going rampant with heroin and meth.

I don't believe the crack talk you went on. People wanted cheaper cocaine, so you cut it and cook it to produce 'crack' which is then the only smoke-able form.

Click to expand...

What don't you believe? Why would anyone use crack if they could afford cocaine? Crack was absolutely, 100% created because cocaine was too expensive. It's not even a controversial subject.

When used safely and properly, these legal drugs are fine for what their intended use is for. Yes there is a high addiction rate and it's well known which is why they aren't (supposed) to be handed out unless absolutely needed, much like a Fentanyl patch.

Click to expand...

Actually, even when used responsibly, a lot of complications occur as a result of prescription medication. The flip side, is zero complications occur as a result of marijuana use. I'm going to, on a broad scale, explain everything that is wrong with the world in the following statement: We have alll the knowledge, the power, the money, the love, the resources, and the community to solve all of the world's problems, however, every solution we come up with also has to make a buck.

I'm not going to get into a fight with you over drugs because that's just stupid and there is no reason why people should be fighting about it in the first place. There are better things to argue about IMO

Click to expand...

I don't view it as us fighting. We are exchanging ideas. I haven't called you a name, you haven't called me a name. We are allowed to disagree and provide factual evidence to back up our claims. In fact, I think more discussions in the exact same manner as the one we are having, should take place on here. People should be challenged to think, and analyze their own beliefs on things.

I think a large problem with these types of discussions, is that literally, people don't even give you their own opinion on things! They simply regurgitate a conglomoration of shit they have learned, without ever taking the time to really analyze where THEY would stand on an issue when presented with all the facts. These types of discussion invite and provoke rational thought, which the world needs more of.

Besides, both you and I know that the route this is going, this thread will be locked. If you do have other things to mention, please PM

Click to expand...

But it shouldn't be locked. We are alll having a discussion, not an argument. Locking an intelligent discussion, while leaving menial bullshit threads that say nothing open I think would send a pretty poor message to the members here.

NosLaser said:

You're preaching to the choir with that stuff my dude. I know all about the William Randolph Hearst and Heny Anslinger marijuana propoganda, and the threats to the timber industry due to the invention of the decordicator making it much easier to process hemp fibers, etc.

It has always been economic. It's no different than our country's need to reform the banking industry for example, but the people with the most influence (read: money) are going to do anything possible to keep that from happening via Gov't being in their pocket, lobbyists, yada yada.

It's going to be very difficult to get this country to wake up, so I feel it is going to be a long road ahead before anything is ever actually done that is positive.

That being said, I have yet to hear ONE single solid, factual based argument against the legalization of marijuana. Not one. I have been able to pick every single one of them apart, and with ease, and I'm certainly nobody special.

Click to expand...

Trust me I know im preaching but many people don't know the history about the entire thing. Everything you have been stating is the same way I think and look at the issue honestly.

Trav83 said:

Put the mouse cursor on the little red square next to your reputation, read it and stfu.

Ok so there are a few other things I wasn't thinking about, but my statement for the most part is still true, people are really going to abuse this system. Guess I might as well stop complaining though, after all this is America and its far from being perfect.

Click to expand...

If this is your "Arguement" Maybe that little square you have should be reduced too.

If your statement is that people are going to abuse the system,

Why don't we take out welfare, Financial Aid, Social Security, Medi Care ???

Most people in this country mess the system over, have you not seen in the news where this lady who OWNED a 3.5 MILLION dollar house was still fudging her taxes and numbers to receive welfare. Every system America has is corrupt and people abuse it, even our judicial system. In what other country can you sue a coffee shop for having HOT coffee. Like ?

Sebba said:

You are on their list when the fed raid the place and cease the customer database they are legally required to maintain.

A lot of dispensaries are required to have cameras linked to the police department, and their computers linked to the police department etc.

Click to expand...

Sorry to say no they are not. ^^

If this were true we would be able to sue the police as well as the dispensary we attend. This is like saying Kaiser has all their medical record files on hand at the police station for them to use.

The only places that would have this be the fact is when they obtain their marijuana from government dispensaries. EVEN THEN, under HIPPO Law we are protected and they are not allowed to obtain that information. Honestly Its gotten to the point where I don't care if people know, its honestly ridiculous how closed minded people are to a plant thats been on the earth for about 7.6 Million years.

LiquidX said:

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

Click to expand...

Quick point to this is that both of these plants MUST go through some kind of human intervention to turn into Cocaine or Heroine.

Cocaine must go through a process of using gasoline and mixture to extract the cocaine from the cocoa leaves.

Heroine from poppy seeds I am not to sure of the process.

LiquidX said:

It's nice to see someone else knows about scheduling

I personally don't think any of them should be legalized due to the fact that people will abuse and cause harm. We don't need to go into a spiel about alcohol however.

I do think it's silly that marijuana is a Schedule I when it should be a Schedule II or III. I do believe it will be lowered when it's more "proven" and understood in the medical field for it to be lowered.

I don't believe the crack talk you went on. People wanted cheaper cocaine, so you cut it and cook it to produce 'crack' which is then the only smoke-able form.

When used safely and properly, these legal drugs are fine for what their intended use is for. Yes there is a high addiction rate and it's well known which is why they aren't (supposed) to be handed out unless absolutely needed, much like a Fentanyl patch.

I'm not going to get into a fight with you over drugs because that's just stupid and there is no reason why people should be fighting about it in the first place. There are better things to argue about IMO

Besides, both you and I know that the route this is going, this thread will be locked. If you do have other things to mention, please PM

Click to expand...

Damn its going to get locked? Weak .

I do agree on the crack notion though I have always seen it as another way to make money easier.



ALSO Thanks to all for the intelligent debate I really was curious of others points of view towards this matter.

LiquidX said:

So opium should be legal again which is what heroine is derived from, as well as morphine? How about peyote and psilocybin, cactus and mushroom. Cocaine is derived from the coca leaf and crack is simple process the cocaine goes through to make it smokeable, they are natural as well. By your statement, it's natural so it should be legal correct?

Click to expand...

You do know the majority of prescription pain killers are opiates right? Those are legal. Highly addictive. Ever been on them for over a month? At that point I actually started to crave them.. and when my script finally ran out I was not the happiest person in the world.

I could see how people who are prescribed opiate painkillers daily have a slightly altered sense of reality. And this shit is completely 100% legal---and weed is not. USA is such a back asswards country.

cloead said:

You do know the majority of prescription pain killers are opiates right? Those are legal. Highly addictive. Ever been on them for over a month? At that point I actually started to crave them.. and when my script finally ran out I was not the happiest person in the world.

I could see how people who are prescribed opiate painkillers daily have a slightly altered sense of reality. And this shit is completely 100% legal---and weed is not. USA is such a back asswards country.

Click to expand...

Yea I love when police come to me and ask why I have a card. Then they ask me why don't I just get prescribed pain killers or things like that. Hmm ones addictive and one isn't? Ones made by man the others grown from the soil. I had one of my friends mom's addicted to vikadin for 3 years. Only addiction you can get to marijuana is a mental addiction if you allow it to get to that point. Personally if im stressed, angry, sad, I never will touch any type of drug, alcohol etc. That's how mental addiction starts.

cloead said:

You do know the majority of prescription pain killers are opiates right? Those are legal. Highly addictive. Ever been on them for over a month? At that point I actually started to crave them.. and when my script finally ran out I was not the happiest person in the world.

I could see how people who are prescribed opiate painkillers daily have a slightly altered sense of reality. And this shit is completely 100% legal---and weed is not. USA is such a back asswards country.

Click to expand...

Yes I'm familiar with the system and what all of the pills are. I have a 2011 DEA drug ID Bible. Did you miss the part that I mentioned scheduling?

NosLaser said:

Why do we single out marijuana though? Why is it, that we are so unhappy as a society, that we always need something to hate?

I don't see anyone lashing out about the abuse of shitty food, and the chronic obesity in America. In fact it is quite the opposite. Speak out against a fat person with no self control and a shitty lifestyle that drains the f@ck out of our healthcare system, and you are called an asshole. And trust me, poor lifestyle choices via diet, etc. is probably the largest epidemic in this country, and guess who pays the toll? We would have 10% of the healthcare issues we have if people took responsibility for themselves, and educated themselves, and made the right lifestyle choices, because prevention is surely more effective than treatment.

And it's probably some fat ass sitting on the couch on medicaid shoving cheeseburgers and tasty cakes down their throat who is shouting the loudest about those "damn pot smokers" and all the dangers of marijuana.

Click to expand...

I hope you're not insinuating this could be me, because it sure isn't and I actually agree with this statement 100%. My post wasn't meant to be a derogatory comment toward the OP, I'm sure he actually may need it, I just can't stand the people out there who abuse systems that are meant to help people out.

And with everyone saying "What about alcohol and tobacco moron?" in response to my post.. Those two things were not meant for helping anybody out (we know why people buy alcohol and tobacco) unlike the intended purpose of medical marijuana.. but of course I guess I still need to consider the number of people who abuse medications and prescriptions. I should have been more specific, I apologize.

Trav83 said:

I hope you're not insinuating this could be me, because it sure isn't and I actually agree with this statement 100%. My post wasn't meant to be a derogatory comment toward the OP, I'm sure he actually may need it, I just can't stand the people out there who abuse systems that are meant to help people out.

And with everyone saying "What about alcohol and tobacco moron?" in response to my post.. Those two things were not meant for helping anybody out (we know why people buy alcohol and tobacco) unlike the intended purpose of medical marijuana.. but of course I guess I still need to consider the number of people who abuse medications and prescriptions. I should have been more specific, I apologize.

Click to expand...

Quick thing, alcohol started off as a medication as a pain reliever back in the early 1900's. So it was actually used medically before the prohibition.

Yet again its just mis-communicating. I just want factual information as to why medicinal marijuana is a joke when its shown to help with about 15 different types of pains and illnesses. CBD in Cannibus is the active ingredient cancer patients look for due to the fact that it helps kill off excess growths in the body such as bacteria and mold.

hypergenesis said:

Quick thing, alcohol started off as a medication as a pain reliever back in the early 1900's. So it was actually used medically before the prohibition.

Yet again its just mis-communicating. I just want factual information as to why medicinal marijuana is a joke when its shown to help with about 15 different types of pains and illnesses. CBD in Cannibus is the active ingredient cancer patients look for due to the fact that it helps kill off excess growths in the body such as bacteria and mold.

Click to expand...

Well now you're just getting technical. Medical marijuana itself is not the joke, it's the people who get ahold of a medical marijuana cards just so they can legally get high.

Trav83 said:

Well now you're just getting technical. Medical marijuana itself is not the joke, it's the people who get ahold of a medical marijuana cards just so they can legally get high.

Click to expand...

I think the real joke is marijuana being illegal in the first place.