He could do that yes, if he has an adapter for his compression tester he could pressurize the piston with the lifters out, that would give him a good clue as well....good thinkin....

stars said:

He could do that yes, if he has an adapter for his compression tester he could pressurize the piston with the lifters out, that would give him a good clue as well....good thinkin....

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Can't I just hook up my normal compression tester and turn the motor over to see if there are any changes? All the valves are going to be closed since there are no lifters or rocker arms on it, so it's not like it could hit a piston or something. Am I right?

I solved it by getting a new relay wired in and bypassing all the stock wiring as I couldn't find anything that was obviously wrong with it, and it still wouldn't work. Now she's running like a champ - thanks for your help.

I see there are multiple dowel pin holes on the cam gears are there multiple timing marks also. I read on here someone else put a cam gear 180degrees out.

lumberjackracing said:

I see there are multiple dowel pin holes on the cam gears are there multiple timing marks also. I read on here someone else put a cam gear 180degrees out.

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The other dowel pin is marked to use for an EVO. There are other timing marks on the cam gears, but the 12 o clock marks are marked with a 12 and are right on.

I would say do like a couple people said and pressurized the cylinders one at a time and see where you air is leaking.

Leakdown test FTW. That'll tell you.

The only issue with that is that I have no way to get compressed air into the cylinders because I don't own an air compressor. That is why I was asking about the compression test with no lifters and rockers.

Might be a good time to get one, they come in handy cheap at harbor freight, i had a timing job dead on found out i had nicked the valves just enough to have compression issues, timing looked good but had problems.

Another update. Pulled the radio and tried to find the source of my noise. Unplugged the large relay on the left (ECU or starter?) she will now crank! So, which relay is that?

Hey if you want any help with this/anything shoot me a PM. I'm barely 30 mins north of you and I go to FT. Collins all the time. I've got plenty of DSM's and built a couple friends as well as mine so if you want help let me know!

I had a talon did the same noise. It was a mfi/mpi relay now that it cranks I'm guessing your not getting fuel? because that's what this relay does it controls the fuel pump and I want to say it controls the injectors but I don't think it does. But I do know it controls the fuel pump

98zx23369 said:

I had a talon did the same noise. It was a mfi/mpi relay now that it cranks I'm guessing your not getting fuel? because that's what this relay does it controls the fuel pump and I want to say it controls the injectors but I don't think it does. But I do know it controls the fuel pump

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The relay controls the starter and the fuel pump individually, doesn't control the injectors though.

Tyeler18 said:

The relay controls the starter and the fuel pump individually, doesn't control the injectors though.

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Right. like I said I couldn't remember what it controlled. But mine was in the same housing. Like two relays in one. Once I changed it I could start my vehicle. I could take a picture I still have them in my parts bucket

Hey if you want any help with this/anything shoot me a PM. I'm barely 30 mins north of you and I go to FT. Collins all the time. I've got plenty of DSM's and built a couple friends as well as mine so if you want help let me know!

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I might take you up on that sometime, Not a whole lot of DSM guys down here, especially not ones who know anything. I have a ton of car friends but we all work on the race team together so usually have no time or desire to help with everybody's own projects

So this is weird, car starts up first try, with the relay unplugged....

Tyeler18 said:

The relay controls the starter and the fuel pump individually, doesn't control the injectors though.

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The MFI/MPI relays control fuel but in a round about way. One relay is for the fuel pump specifically controlled by the ECU and the other delivers +12V to pins 12 & 25 on the ECU itself with key switched on. Neither relays control the starter, ie engine cranking. Service manual will point out to remove the 'Moteur Fuse' to only allow the engine to crank but will not start since 'Moteur Fuse' controls +12V going to both relays. The ECU directly controls injectors by giving them a ground. In the 95' the 2 relays are housed within a bigger shiny yellow box. However, on my 97' you can replace each relay individually.

OP: Here's the thread with pictures of the relay right off the bat:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/263224-mfi-mpi-relay.html

I got the car running. It was the temp sensor and the maf. But now my car will not stay alive at idle. If I keep reving it the car will stay up. But not at dead idle. And I charged the battery and it worked fine. But then the battery died and the car won't stay on now. It was a dead cell in the battery. Got a new battery and now it won't stay on again.

Check the alternator and the alternator wire.

It sounds like my car shouldn't be able to start with either of those two things not working. I assume it sees 12v on those pins (12&25) and knows "hey ive got fuel, now I can fire the injectors". With the relay(s) unplugged how does it know its getting fuel, and in turn know to fire the injectors?

Looks like im going to have to dig out the DMM here I hate chasing electrical gremlins.

Ok not exactly. From the start: Key on connects the 30a 'moteur' fuse located in engine bay fuse panel to both relays (first picture in the link provided). When key is switched on this turns on one of the relays giving +12v to pins 12 & 25. Now that the ECU has power it realizes its just been switched on and primes the fuel system by turning on fuel pump relay for a couple seconds then deactivates the relay. When you crank the engine, the cam/crank position senors will send out a signal which let's the ECU know when to fire the injectors as well as spark. Anytime the crank/cam sensors are outputing signal, the fuel pump will be switched on via the relay controlled by ECU. Hope that helps.

Wow that's dumb.

So the next logical question is why do I give two shits; if it still works if its unplugged ?

Okay chill dude, remember it's free help here.

Can you take a picture of the relay and where you unplugged it from? It's not supposed to start or even turn over with that completely unplugged.

Im not upset, just a cynical prick, it happens.

I will try to snag a pic tomorrow when my new phone gets here.

and here you go

I did the 4g63 head conversion on my 4g64. I went to start but its just cranks but wont start. At this point I am away from the car but I believe none of the vacuum hoses are connected and I dont know if the firing order is in order. What should I look for?

First fix the things you just say because it aint wanna start that way!