O ok my bad I tthought there was a way to figure that out.
Thanks for the good info man

ty92dsm said:

What is the calculation to find what psi would be 30lb/min on a 16g?

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Since you have link you dont need a calculation. Start a log and see what your set up is actually flowing

calan said:

Because the only reason people use a GM MAF these days is so they can vent the BOV.

Now that you mention it though, I can't remember seeing a GM MAF in draw through either.

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I use a gm maf because it meets my airflow metering requirements, and i don't have to redo all of my tables in my ecu whenever i change my setup, which i do often. I've run speed density, and didn't feel as if my cars performance transcended to some higher level.

donniekak said:

I use a gm maf because it meets my airflow metering requirements, and i don't have to redo all of my tables in my ecu whenever i change my setup, which i do often. I've run speed density, and didn't feel as if my cars performance transcended to some higher level.

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Truth be told, I still run a GM MAF also, but it's mostly just because I haven't yanked it out yet. I still switch between it and SD some. And like you mentioned, it is nice not to have to redo the VE setup every time you change something.

I was on the GM MAF before I lost the turbo, due to a strange narrow lean spike issue at a very specific load/VE point when I ran SD. I'm curious to see if it's still there when I get the car back together with the new Deatschwerks pump.

donniekak said:

I use a gm maf because it meets my airflow metering requirements, and i don't have to redo all of my tables in my ecu whenever i change my setup, which i do often. I've run speed density, and didn't feel as if my cars performance transcended to some higher level.

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You run it through a blow-through?

One thing to remember about a SD setup is that it needs retuned every time you change anything. Whereas a maf setup that actually meters how much air goes into the engine can pretty much self adjust to changes. For example if you make the I/C piping larger, you are suddenly flowing more air, but the map sensor only knows how much boost you are running so it won't automatically add more fuel.

91stocker said:

I dont believe any of that is true.

Wiki ftw
The Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) is one of the sensors used in an internal combustion engine's electronic control system. Engines that use a MAP sensor are typically fuel injected. The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). The data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate,

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What isn't true?

Well now I am confused on which one would be best for me. The GM MAF seems to be easier if you change a lot (which I probably will). But then I like the way SD works and you don't have to have the big ugly blowthrough.

calan said:

What isn't true?

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I was commenting on the fact that map sensor meters air similar to maf.

The Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) is one of the sensors used in an internal combustion engine's electronic control system. Engines that use a MAP sensor are typically fuel injected. The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). The data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate,

I deleted my comment because i thought he said you have to change the tune with the weather which is a sd myth.

ty92dsm said:

Well now I am confused on which one would be best for me. The GM MAF seems to be easier if you change a lot (which I probably will). But then I like the way SD works and you don't have to have the big ugly blowthrough.

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It is actually really easy to re-tune SD. Most changes can handled with about 20 minutes of adjustments on a single table.

The GM maf in blowthrough will probably wander often enough to be just as much of a pain.

Do you really want/need to vent your bov though? If not then an evo maf might be the best way to go. They are super reliable and can handle more air than you are likely to flow for a long time.

I honestly don't want to vent I think it is kind of annoying. Is there a special intake pipe for the evo maf or is it the same shape as the 2g? Also where can I find a decent evo MAF any ideas?
Thanks for all the help!

91stocker said:

I was commenting on the fact that map sensor meters air similar to maf.

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A MAF sensor measures airflow; a MAP sensor has no clue about how much air is flowing.

The end product is the same (a specific amount of fuel injected), but the processes used to get there are quite different.

OP:

MAF = Set it and forget it, but somewhat sensitive to weather changes.

SD = More stable, but must re-tune if something changes to affect the volume of airflow (cams, intake, exhaust, etc).

calan said:

A MAF sensor measures airflow; a MAP sensor has no clue about how much air is flowing.

The end product is the same (a specific amount of fuel injected), but the processes used to get there are quite different.

OP:

MAF = Set it and forget it, but somewhat sensitive to weather changes.

SD = More stable, but must re-tune if something changes to affect the volume of airflow (cams, intake, exhaust, etc).

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Thank you

any ideas to where I could find an evo mas?

I wanted to bring this back to life because I was wondering about the same thing. I am leaning towards SD because I want to build, tune then be done with it. Need to know if I can just run SD with link and no MAF, or should I look into an EVO MAF?

dsmboost84 said:

Need to know if I can just run SD with link and no MAF?

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Yes you can.

Hal

like above poster said yes you can thats actually the way it works, you hook up your map sensor to your intake manifold, then have your ait sensor welded into your upper ic pipe about 6 to 8 inches away from your tb. if you don't want to do any wiring and soldering you go the easy route, and order the sd setup through ecmtuning and the plug and play wire. all together will cost around 150.00. I just bought mine last week having a guy weld in my ait this week at work for free.

but I do have a related/unrelated question, when I get my sd hooked up I want to delete my airfilter pipe and either put an airfilter on my turbo or use a different pipe going more towards airflow with no maf restriction. my question is what do I do with some of the lines running to my stock tube. egr/valve cover(got a breather) and believe there is one more besides bov.

dsmboost84 said:

I wanted to bring this back to life because I was wondering about the same thing. I am leaning towards SD because I want to build, tune then be done with it. Need to know if I can just run SD with link and no MAF, or should I look into an EVO MAF?

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Maf is easier to tune with. SD requires adjustments all the time and keeping a laptop in your car, unless you run it in closed loop.

All I have to say is thank god for speed density!!!!!!! Its the best way to tune... And on top of it, blowing an innercooler pipe or having a boost leak doesnt prevent you from getting home. I calibrate with MAF, then rip off the MAF, and do my hours of fine tuning! Remember to get your GLOBALS just right, and leave your fuel sliders at zero. Use your SD TABLE ONLY to tune. And you will be most succesful I promise. I see a lot of people going to SD, and using the fuel sliders to tune, and never touching the SD table... This is a mistake ;-)

ENICKB said:

Its the best way to tune)

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It's not a tuning method, it how you determine air mass using pressure and temperature.

Whether it's the "best" way to determine air mass is debatable.

They all have their good points and bad points.

For everyone who has issues with a certain air metering method, there are numerous others who make it work just fine.

I've used them all on my car at one time or another and speed density isn't my choice even though I got them all to work just fine.

Hal

Disable all the MAF settings and set the MaxOpenLoop threshold to keep the car in closed loop then drive the car for 20+ miles. You'll use the Speed Density table to collect the CombinedFT. Save and you have your base tune. Just drive a couple more weeks like that pulling a log. Updating CombinedFT. Your car will be in good shape for cruising.

After set the cruise tune you can set the WOT tune.

johneclipse said:

you just wire in your SD sensors. leave the mas plugged in. drive around on a log. then run the sdcombinedratio{i think thats the right one...} tool via link and it sets the table up based off the mas signals.

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Sorry, But I am in the same boat.

I just don't get it, you said to wire the SD in and leave the Mas plugged in?.

It means to split the Baro in two?, one for the Mas and one for the SD?.

Sorry, I just trying to get this all straight up in my head.

miguelmcv said:

Sorry, But I am in the same boat.

I just don't get it, you said to wire the SD in and leave the Mas plugged in?.

It means to split the Baro in two?, one for the Mas and one for the SD?.

Sorry, I just trying to get this all straight up in my head.

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I think he meant maf, that way you have most of your stuff already set and your car is already cruiseable, then you are just making small adjustments. instead of when you first get ecmlink and plug it in and have to adjust everything at once to get the car running right. atleast that is what I believe he means as a guy on ecmtuning told me the same thing. my tune is stable at best so I am just starting from scratch putting my wide band and sd in this weekend. no more limping home when a coupler breaks free.

jcarmichael said:

I think he meant maf, that way you have most of your stuff already set and your car is already cruiseable, then you are just making small adjustments. instead of when you first get ecmlink and plug it in and have to adjust everything at once to get the car running right. atleast that is what I believe he means as a guy on ecmtuning told me the same thing. my tune is stable at best so I am just starting from scratch putting my wide band and sd in this weekend. no more limping home when a coupler breaks free.

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Yes, you are right, The only confusion that I have is, If the MAF and IAT plugs in the same line (Baro), to get the MAF Dial and copy for the SD table.

miguelmcv said:

Yes, you are right, The only confusion that I have is, If the MAF and IAT plugs in the same line (Baro), to get the MAF Dial and copy for the SD table.

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yea I am on the same wave link as you don't quite understand how it works either, thats why I am just gonna start from scratch, plus the tune I have now is without a wideband, and I am throwing in 1680 high z injectors so I have to go back to the start either way on dead time.

ENICKB said:

blowing an innercooler pipe or having a boost leak doesnt prevent you from getting home.

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It does prevent you from running your turbo at appropriate shaft speeds before you realise the coupler. Torching a $1000+ turbo and/or expensive motor as a result of bad coupler installation or cheap clamps is not my idea of a good time. The best thing you can do if you blow a coupler is to also unhook the IWG arm so that the exh can bypass the turbine and not overspin your turbo.... then you can floor it home w/ your busted coupler if that makes you happy.

Alot of the "gurus" that are old enough to be some of you guys dads have also sided with using a MAF as opposed to MAP.

The BEST way to tune is on a dyno. The MAS is not an air restriction like many will have you believe either. You have to be flowing a LOT of air before the honey combs in one of the stock maf's becomes a restriction..... more air than the sensor can meter. Mitsu did their homework.