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Old test done again HKS 272 VS GSC S2 30hp gain

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NDgsx

DSM Wiseman
1,163
3
Jun 10, 2002
Vancouver, Washington
So last week we ended up doing this test not by plan though

Here is the story of why it happened.

So we have Tony's car in our shop doing our ported head and ETS 3586 turbo upgrade. There were a group of things that were going on that caused the car to be at our shop for a few months. So when we got her back together and finished she was right at 500whp. I kept thinking why would we do all this port work and other stuff and not do good cams. A closer look at the invoice and sure enough we should have put S2s in. At that point it was Thursday night, and Tony was to be down early Friday. I broke the news to him that we were losers and did not get the cams in. He was ok but disappointed about it. Of course I said I would get them in and retuned when ever he wanted. Well that night I was thinking about it too much. I called Jeff and said start early and get some S2s in Tony's car. He was done by 9am and the tune was finished by 10am. So needless to say we surprised Tony.

Mod list-

ER short rod 2.4
HKS exhaust
ETS3586
FIC 2150s
BR dubble pump
Pump Gas for now
ETS FMIC
Stock Intake
So here is the Dyno sheet boost to boost on the same timing.

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It was actually way more than 30whp, 30whp was the rough average. We stopped at 28psi and 535whp because the car is corked by an HKS exhaust. At 23psi, back to back, the car is up 60whp peak and 40 average.

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I am in contact with GSC right now working on a promotion deal so we can save you all a little on cams and get you into something that we have proven to get good gains.

Aaron
 
Here is the current pricing-

GSC Camshafts

I really feel that there isnt any cam that can touch the GSC in any of the 3 versions. For an example, Jeff's 1G runs off the shelf S3s with no tricks. My Evo runs an aggressive S2 bordering on the S3 to make 830+whp on a 3794. Luke runs the S1s in his road race car.
 
Very cool, I currently have HKS 272 so it's very nice to see this thread. Jeff told me I should switch them out to S2's when I got my motor done by you guys a few months ago. He said I would get a very nice gain, an extra 35HP sounds nice :thumb: Basically I will defentily someday be having the S2's put in. About a week away from starting the new motor!!
 
So the car originally had hks272's? Gains 30whp with gsc s2's?

Correct. We did the same thing with a 264/272 combo earlier last year and posted the results. This was straight 272s this time around. Also remember the Evo head is only a glorified 2G head so the results do have merit. It was a stock intake manifold as well, which is comparable to the Evo3 intake.

Aaron
 
Correct. We did the same thing with a 264/272 combo earlier last year and posted the results. This was straight 272s this time around. Also remember the Evo head is only a glorified 2G head so the results do have merit. It was a stock intake manifold as well, which is comparable to the Evo3 intake.

Aaron
Aaron, you need post under your own user account instead of using Nick's please.

As for the GSC cams - would an S1/S2 combo be possible, and would it outperform the 264/272 combo as well? I'm running the Comp Cams 264/272 combo in my Eclipse. I'm going to be dropping in an HTA76 and am wondering if it's worth revisiting cams as well. I want a nice usable power range for road racing.
 
I thought this was on a DSM for a second, my dream setup, stroker + 35R sized turbo.
 
So a rough 30whp gain on a change of cams, and no degree work of the cam setup was done?

Cams went in with the cam gears set up exactly the same, -3.75* on both for the deck height change. No other changes were made, one day Aaron made a pull with the car and the HKS, next morning it was S2s. As close to back to back as possible around here.

turbotalon1g said:
I thought this was on a DSM for a second, my dream setup, stroker + 35R sized turbo.

Ludachris said:
As for the GSC cams - would an S1/S2 combo be possible, and would it outperform the 264/272 combo as well? I'm running the Comp Cams 264/272 combo in my Eclipse. I'm going to be dropping in an HTA76 and am wondering if it's worth revisiting cams as well. I want a nice usable power range for road racing.

Really it is the same results you'd see, here is an example from the actual DSM test with the 3065, I wouldnt bother with split cam sets-

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/390794-hks-264s-vs-gsc-s2s-dsm.html

Nick
 
Cams went in with the cam gears set up exactly the same, -3.75* on both for the deck height change. No other changes were made, one day Aaron made a pull with the car and the HKS, next morning it was S2s. As close to back to back as possible around here.





Really it is the same results you'd see, here is an example from the actual DSM test with the 3065, I wouldnt bother with split cam sets-

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/390794-hks-264s-vs-gsc-s2s-dsm.html

Nick
Would you lose any low/mid range power by going with a set of SC2's on a 2.3L and GT3076R setup? compared to a split cam set.
 
I asked Greg at GSC about an upgrade for my HKS 264/264 that would not give up low end torque in my at/awd..This was his response;
Go with a set of the new S1's they will wake up the engine big time over the
hks 264s and wont hurt the low end
...
 
Would you lose any low/mid range power by going with a set of SC2's on a 2.3L and GT3076R setup? compared to a split cam set.

There will always be a little loss with more duration. As was pointed out though the S1s dont lose anywhere. In the Evos we use those as Roadrace and rally cams. I dont know where you are seeing full boost at right now, but typically an HTA3076 and 2.0L with S2s will spool just before 4,000 with the FP housing. If it was a T3 turbo kit and/or coupled with the 2.3 I would strongly suspect mid 3k with S2s/2.3/3076.
 
There will always be a little loss with more duration. As was pointed out though the S1s dont lose anywhere. In the Evos we use those as Roadrace and rally cams. I dont know where you are seeing full boost at right now, but typically an HTA3076 and 2.0L with S2s will spool just before 4,000 with the FP housing. If it was a T3 turbo kit and/or coupled with the 2.3 I would strongly suspect mid 3k with S2s/2.3/3076.
It's going to be a 2.3L, GT3076R with FP30 turbine housing, and Magnus street intake manifold. I haven't run it yet to see what spool is like on this set up. The last set up I ran was basically the same except the turbo was a FP3150 dbb - their limited production 50-trim. Spool was pretty good, I think around mid 3k rpm range. I'm hoping to stay close to that range. So I want to be careful with a cam change. If you're using the S1's in road race Evos maybe that's what I should go with instead of the S2's.
 
With the HKS's you can stick with the stock springs. What about with these cams...?

If you click the link in post #3, then hit details, it will show what is required for each set..
The S1 cams are good with stock springs...
 
Would you still recommend the s2s over some kelford 272s?
 
Kelfords consistently make 20whp less, need degreed, and are more knock prone. If wanted that I would leave stock cams in my DSM.

Short answer- GSC>Kelford
 
So, I have some gears on the way to tweak the Kelford 280/276 combo I currently have which pulls well through 9k.. (Not comfortable going much higher than that at the moment with my current beehives, original lifters and stock HLA. what pairing of bumpstick would your experience suggest is appropriate for breathing into the upper 10k rpm range?

I've been thinking about trying to find some FP5R/FP11s, but is there a GSC stick that would suffice?

I have a 71mm turbo that I am looking to take full advantage of, and have nearly finished prep to wind out that high (Kiggly HLA, double springs, etc.)

This is for my LSR car and in order to hit the speeds I am looking for on the 5th gear I have is going to require it eventually.
 
Would you lose any low/mid range power by going with a set of SC2's on a 2.3L and GT3076R setup? compared to a split cam set.

Don't have first hand experience with the S2's but based on the info I got from GSC, I would say yes, their probably would be vs say your typical HKS 264/272 combo. The S2's are a pretty aggressive cam profile when you look at specs.

GSC has done several revisions of their cams, wish I had know this before I went with my Kelfords "264's". The S1's should be a more aggressive cam vs the Kelfords & still might be able to pass emissions with them (which is why I didn't go with a "272" varient).

For a road track car, think the S1's would probably be ideal in most cases, with a 2.3 you might get away with abit bigger cam but I guess it depends on where you want to make your power curve & which part of the rpm range your typically in depending on the type of course you run. The S2's should be more aggressive then the Kelford 272's based on spec's, so if you do run on the bigger tracks the Kelford 272's might be doable on a stroker but thinking the S2's are probably too much.

If the 5-7K is where you want the power, S1's. If 6-8K is the sweet spot, then Kelford 272's.
 
fixed that for you

Nick

Nothing to fix there ;) While I think the S2's probably do offer more top end vs the Kelford 272's, he's building a road track car, not a drag car. So the Kelford 272's are probably already too much of a top end cam, so the S2's probably won't be of benefit to him.
 
Kelfords are knock happy and consistently make 20whp less than any GSC product. Like I said, fixed. But what do we know, we just helped test all of the designs for the last 6 years?
 
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