So I know most would say that obviously AWD is better for the 1/4 mile but I was wondering since the FWD is lighter, could a pair of slicks on a FWD even out the playing field.


Basically, say 2 cars are racing (gsx and gst) and the driving is the same and they both have slicks etc etc. Would the race be close since though the gsx gets a better launch is still heavier by a couple hundred lbs.

Anyways let me know what you think.

DSM 1/4 Mile Times - 1/4 ET

Now try to determine what they are doing and if they converted to RWD or not.

I don't think FWD would beat AWD in an apples to apples comparison, on the drag strip anyway.

With a good set of slicks and suspension, the FWD will launch as good as a lightly modded AWD car. However, if the AWD is set on kill, and has the right setup, it has an advantage. Then you get into the realm of Kiggly's FWD beast, who pulls 1.2x 60's with a FWD auto DSM. But then again, we are talking 1000+whp cars.

NOSLO2PT0 said:

With a good set of slicks and suspension, the FWD will launch as good as a lightly modded AWD car. However, if the AWD is set on kill, and has the right setup, it has an advantage. Then you get into the realm of Kiggly's FWD beast, who pulls 1.2x 60's with a FWD auto DSM. But then again, we are talking 1000+whp cars.

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With tires so wide it basically has the contact patch of an AWD

I'd say for an all out race car where anything goes It could go either way. A FWD is going to be lighter, wont have as much drivetrain loss, It's going to be a little better on the latter half of the track, and could launch as good as an AWD with massive tires. But then again we are talking race cars, with very good drivers, and tons of money in wheels, tires, suspension, e.c.t.

An AWD is going to be alot better for the average person.

I know a guy with a 1g fwd that says with slicks he can beat an equally powered awd. His car is now auto so if you take the driver mod out of the equation it helps a little. From what I have read to get a FWD to compete with an AWD it will cost a lot more then the average person want's to spend. I know if you race a FWD and AWD from a roll or 3rd gear the FWD will have the advantage but lets be honest, it is way more fun to be thrown in to the back of your seat off the line in an awd. You will break more stuff and it will probably cost you more to run an awd but honestly once you redo all of your bushings, get coilovers and good tires you really can beat the feel you get of an awd taking a turn sticking to the road going really fast. I have a FWD as my DD but am looking to pick up an AWD as well.

1 [email protected] [email protected] 1.076 Got Grip 91 Eclipse GSX BW 74mm
2 [email protected] [email protected] 1.296 jshepherd 91 Talon TSi AWD Full Garrett
3 [email protected] [email protected] 1.284 kiggly 91 Laser RS Turbo BW 76mm

"Holy crap kiggly, the FWD is not far off" I am guessing the first 2 cars a RWD?

DSM 1/4 Mile Times - 1/4 ET Click the video links for these, kiggly needs a better camera but you can still see the huge slicks he has. I am guessing it's an auto as well?

1st car is Brent Rau. RWD. Second is John Shepherd. AWD.

NOSLO2PT0 said:

1st car is Brent Rau. RWD. Second is John Shepherd. AWD.

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Yea but did you notice kiggly's fwd pulls a better 60ft then shep.

Ravenous said:

With tires so wide it basically has the contact patch of an AWD

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No, no, no. Total contact-patch size is only part of the story. Weight transfer is the other part, and it's arguably more important, making the idea that equalizing total driven contact patch will equalize performance so very wrong.

personally, i would go with awd because once you hit that gas all the weight of the car is shifted to the back and then your front wheels are slipping and spinning out. with awd it doesnt matter because you will have all the wheels pushing and pulling for that fast launch. with fwd i think you will need to work on some serious weight distribution. but thats what i think to my knowledge, idk if there is anymore to it if anyone else wants to chime in

jtmcinder said:

No, no, no. Total contact-patch size is only part of the story. Weight transfer is the other part, and it's arguably more important, making the idea that equalizing total driven contact patch will equalize performance so very wrong.

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I remember having a big debate about this with some guys in one of my physics class's years ago. They couldn't understand that the wider the tire you have the less force you have pushing down per area of contact between the tire and ground. Eventually you can loose traction from too wide of a tire.

bryanwheat said:

I remember having a big debate about this with some guys in one of my physics class's years ago. They couldn't understand that the wider the tire you have the less force you have pushing down per area of contact between the tire and ground. Eventually you can loose traction from too wide of a tire.

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Did you pass the class?

For a given amount of weight on the wheel and assuming clean pavement, not snow to cut through, it's always better to have a wider tire, so they were correct and you were wrong. The function relating weight to grip "bends" down, such that adding more weight has less and less of a benefit to grip, so a wider tire and spreading out the weight is always better.

There's only one exception to this: when you're trying to turn, going with a super-wide tire can hurt because the inside edge of the tire has a shorter distance to travel. But this is really an extreme situation and can probably be ignored.

Of coarse i passed. My physics teacher actually verified that i was correct also. How does that not make sense to you. You will get to a limit to where you don't have enough weight per contact area that you will actually lose traction. Say you have 800 lbs pushing down on the tire. You have a ten inch wide tire with roughly 4 inches from the front to rear touching the pavment. So that is 40 square inches of contact, now you have 800 lbs pushing down on that. That would be roughly 20 lbs of force for every inch touching the ground. No increase that to a 15 inch wide tire and you are at roughly 13 lbs of force for every inch touching the pavment. Heavier car will benefit from a wider tire than what a lighter car will.

All else being equal (including and especially the weight on the wheel), a larger contact patch will provide more grip than a smaller contact patch. Period. It's simple math once you know that the function relating normal force to grip bends downward.

I've seen enough of your posts to know that arguing will be a waste of time.

I'm sorry that you had the physics teacher that you did. I can only hope that he or she has retired or that you misunderstood what he or she was saying.

@bryan- I'm sorry but when talking about tires your theory is wrong because there is not enough grip per sq inch of tire to use that increased weight per sq inch. Now 4 and 6puck clutches work exactly as what you're trying to explain. They reduce surface area to increase pressure because the friction material can benefit from it. Tires can't take advantage of the extra weight/pressure the same way a clutch can

NOSLO2PT0 said:

1st car is Brent Rau. RWD. Second is John Shepherd. AWD.

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The car isnt Brent Rau's 2g. Its a 4g63 rail. It bugs me that he is on that list with a eclipse gsx as the carhe did that 6sec pass in. Turbo4 » Sixes!!!!! Brent Rau's car is more of a dsm in my opinion

There is a point where a tire will be wide enough not to lose traction. Going beyond that width the tire physically cannot lose traction with all things being equal. The weight distribution will just be spread out across a bigger contact patch.

The theory that "you can lose traction with too wide a tire" is not correct. If it were true, we would be slipping all over the place at part throttle driving around in town.

jtmcinder said:

No, no, no. Total contact-patch size is only part of the story. Weight transfer is the other part, and it's arguably more important, making the idea that equalizing total driven contact patch will equalize performance so very wrong.

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This was one of those times that sarcasm was lost in internet translation. I know that contact patch isn't everything but Kiggly's front end is not even worth comparing in an apples to apples comparison since it is so extreme.

Ravenous said:

This was one of those times that sarcasm was lost in internet translation. I know that contact patch isn't everything but Kiggly's front end is not even worth comparing in an apples to apples comparison since it is so extreme.

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So is his frankenstein trans.

A FWD will cost more money to compete with a AWD, but a FWD will always be faster than a IRS AWD

Ravenous said:

This was one of those times that sarcasm was lost in internet translation.

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Glad to hear this. I can only handle so much nonsense at a time. I am now back below threshold.