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I HAVE THE WORST LUCK WITH "dsms" EVER!!!!

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b00stAdict

10+ Year Contributor
101
1
Jan 22, 2009
broomfield, Colorado
OOh boy where to even start.... (not every single detail being mentioned) OKay from the beginning... In March of 2009 i was surfing craigslist looking for a project car, so happen to come across a 1992 Eagle Talon TSI. The car had a 2.5" catback exhaust with a greddy muffler, a MBC, and a system... Nothing fancy but a start.. The guy has posted that it is going to need a new tranny. He's asking $2900. I go to take a look at it, the body/paint isn't the best but it isn't horrible, interior is the leather which is all torn up and in need of replacement. Start the car up and it runs fine but won't go into gear, no pressure in the clutch. (i think to myself thats not a transmission that's a slave cylinder) so i go along with it talk to the guy for a pit, tell him the first thing im gonna need to do is get a new transmission, possibly a new clutch depending on how long he was driving it until it finally crapped out, so on, so forth. I finally talk him down to $1200! yes $1200 from $2900. :hellyeah: He didn't know what he had and really wanted the cash.

So i paid $1200 for it, towed it to the auto parts store, purchased a slave cylinder and fluid, threw it on and drove the car home! Thinking i got one hell of a deal!! well fast-forward 3 months later, and the car starts smoking at idle, so first thing i do is do a compression check both wet and dry and come to find out that cyl #1 is leaking pretty bad only ~135psi the rest were ~150psi. drive on it for another 3 or so months and it get worse as you all can assume... in the mean time looking for a replacement motor, find one in october for 400 bucks, with ~120,000 miles on it. Looks good guy said it came from his old talon that he rebuilt another motor in and is just taking up space. So get that motor in, in a weekend. Starts up right away, runs strong. Not even 3 weeks later something must have gotten into the timing cover because snapped timing belt!! :banghead: 3 bent valves and 1 broke off completely!!!! cracked the piston. So once again start over from scratch.

So some time goes by i end up purchasing another used motor with 100k miles on it, this one in real good condition as well. well i get the smart idea of rebuilding my old motor, so i strip the motor completely, purchased new pistons, rings, bearings, and full gasket set. Hone the block out, make sure everything is straight, measure all the gaps to make sure within specs. Get the motor put back together and ready to swap in from the used motor. (the 2nd used motor i purchased is running great! but i wanted a new motor, more power) so i get the new motor in, go to fire it up and wa-la! Its running great! Good oil pressure, no leaks, so i let it run for a little check all hoses, clamps, everything double checking for anything that could be wrong. Found nothing, so hit the road, do a few pulls from 40-60mph in 3rd gear about 50-75% throttle. Thinking i did a good job keep driving it for another couple days, i get about 215 miles on the new motor and i start hearing a knocking noise form the bottom end.. well my buddy had a rod bearing go out and i heard it and it sounds like the EXACT same thing.. so what do i do, pull the oil pan off and what do you know... I see chunks of what looks like gold in my old pan, i pop my main caps off and i find a bearing that looking like its been shredded with a grinder. :cry: I did use plasti-gauge and everything checked out in specs. so im not sure how this happened, the bearing didn't "spin" it seems like it was too tight and wore down like crazy, although i have no idea really how it happened. So my crank is now screwed because of this bearing mishap.

Well some time goes by i get some money save up, i purchased a used crank, Brand new pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, have my head mild and re-built with revised lifters, just to stock specs, no porting, stock valves n springs, buy a new Big 16g turbo, new XTD stage 4 Pressure plate with 6 puck UN sprung disk, you know doing it big, making sure i have it all. So i send the block out for it to get hot tanked, honed and bored to .030 over, the crank had to be cut to .010 over on the rods and .020 over on the main, get a BS eliminator kit, new timing belt and components, new water pump, oil pump, basically everything you can get for this thing to run perfect. Well i think to my self, i went kinda hard on my last motor and a bearing gave out, so i just dropped $1200 i might as well take a easy on this motor. So i get it back from the machined shop, put it all together, get it in, start it up and it just purrs. :pray: hoping i got it right this time. Well everything seems to check out juust fine for now. So im driving it and it's smoking a little i do give it a few pulls here and there about half throttle, not letting it boost past 5psi. Well i now have about 350 miles on it all and its still smoking like crazy, i was thinking maybe it could be my valve stem seals, so i go to do a compression check, first thing first take the spark plugs out, first cyl, remove the spark plug and its just caked in oil, BAD. 2nd and 3rd look to be fine, just a brown/tan spark plugs, then 4th cyl is a little wet with oil as well... look down into each cylinder and see that the pistons are wet with oil.. Do a compression check and 3 out of 4 cylinders are at 120-135psi, the 1st cylinder is at 150psi. What in the hell!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Shouldn't the rings have seated by now??!! I feel like god wants me to give up with this car. I love these cars and know the potential they all have but i must have the worst luck ever. This car just doesn't want to run for me no matter how cautious i am about building these motors. Maybe im missing something im not sure.. I just don't know what to do anymore...... :coy:

Yes i know i don't have the best punctuation, or grammer, please forgive me, i really dont care, this is just a forum.

For anyone reading this im sorry to be ventilating but my girl is sick of me bitching to her so i fall back on the forums. :sosad:


Thanks in advance hopefully im not the only one out there with this kind of luck.
 
Dude honestly 135 isn't bad.... I mean thats like within 10-15%, yea it takes a bit for rings to seal...


80-150-140-150 is bad...

Read my BS bearing story.... spun a bearing 5 days after purchase...
 
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my main concern is that it's smoking like a train. I know that new motors should smoke a little but this is alot, more then normal for sure. And im not sure if the machine shop did anything wrong.. i think i was to easy for the first 50 miles because i was worried of breaking it in "to hard" i guess.

Dude honestly 135 isn't bad.... I mean thats like within 10-15%, yea it takes a bit for rings to seal...


80-150-140-150 is bad...

Read my BS bearing story.... spun a bearing 5 days after purchase...


And here were my readings

cyl #1 - 150psi
cyl #2 - 125psi
cyl #3 - 134psi
cyl #4 - 120psi

Also on a new motor shouldn't the readings be higher then 150psi if the rings seated properly?

I would think after 300 miles that the rings should be seated almost 90% If not completely seated. Therefore there shouldn't be any smoking, correct me if im wrong... But i was told the rings seat within the first 20-30 minutes of run time
 
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If you are going to do something about the problem now is the time to do it. Dont keep driving it and chance messing something else up. Break it all back down and see where the problem is.
 
What kind of turbo? Genuine or eBay. Is it possible the new motor had some debris in it which was pushed past the turbo and shredded the journals?
 
I don't want to say you are putting this engine together recklessly (as in not checking for perfection on everything), but really that is where I am at after reading your post. I think you need to have a machine shop put your motor together, not only for the sake of your sanity, but because a machine shop has access to tools we normal folk don't have and they can be held liable for improper installation of components (not bad components).

It sounds like the engine wasn't broken in properly this time and some of your rings didn't seat properly. Particularly the one at 120. If your maximum is 150 that means all of your other rings need to be within 128 to 135, anything lower indicates an issue.
 
If you are going to do something about the problem now is the time to do it. Dont keep driving it and chance messing something else up. Break it all back down and see where the problem is.


I know, the car is currently parked due to another issue im having with the clutch. But i think my slave cylinder quit on me. I have GOOD pressure in the pedal but when going to put the shifter in gear it won't go in and it feels "spongy" Im debating on buying a slave cylinder if my motors ####ed...

I don't want to say you are putting this engine together recklessly (as in not checking for perfection on everything), but really that is where I am at after reading your post. I think you need to have a machine shop put your motor together, not only for the sake of your sanity, but because a machine shop has access to tools we normal folk don't have and they can be held liable for improper installation of components (not bad components).

It sounds like the engine wasn't broken in properly this time and some of your rings didn't seat properly. Particularly the one at 120. If your maximum is 150 that means all of your other rings need to be within 128 to 135, anything lower indicates an issue.


I did forget to mention this last time i DID have my machine shop put the bottom end together. As fear of ruining another bearing because of little imperfections.


What kind of turbo? Genuine or eBay. Is it possible the new motor had some debris in it which was pushed past the turbo and shredded the journals?


It is a genuine MHI turbo. And as far as debris in the motor it was hot tanked and all the oil ports were cleaned. From what i was told atleast...
 
I did forget to mention this last time i DID have my machine shop put the bottom end together. As fear of ruining another bearing because of little imperfections.

Then it's time to call them on this, 350 miles and a bad ring, I would say they need to rebuild this for you or pay someone else to.
 
Well, let's start off with not telling them if you were too easy or too hard on it and see where it goes. I doubt you want to rebuilding a block every few hundred miles on your dime.
 
i mean its worth a shot.. Ill call them later today, but no definitely not, i may give it ONE more shot and if that doesn't work again then its bye bye for this car... Im not one to give up easily but i simply can't afford this..
 
Welcome to the club. It happens to the best of us. That is why me and my dad say you gotta pay to play and that these cars are prone to problems. If you think your situation is bad we've had numerous problems when I was driving 6+ hours away from home and bearing going out, timing belt gone wrong, clutch etc. Heck my car is still down at this moment for about 2 years. Just have to deal with it and have a love hate relationship.;)
 
Welcome to the club. It happens to the best of us. That is why me and my dad say you gotta pay to play and that these cars are prone to problems. If you think your situation is bad we've had numerous problems when I was driving 6+ hours away from home and bearing going out, timing belt gone wrong, clutch etc. Heck my car is still down at this moment for about 2 years. Just have to deal with it and have a love hate relationship.;)

i do have a love hate relationship with this car as a i haven't completely given up or sold it yet. I love everything about these vehicles, i just wish i could get more play time in i suppose. :cry:
 
We all do but its a dsm welcome to the problems, and headaches im in it for the longrun issues, money, doesnt matter i still spend money, but i wrench a lot of it myself 15 years still in the game.
 
We all do but its a dsm welcome to the problems, and headaches im in it for the longrun issues, money, doesnt matter i still spend money, but i wrench a lot of it myself 15 years still in the game.


daamn 15 yrs and still trucking, mad props :thumb: . The money thing is an issue but if it were running it wouldn't be that BIG of an issue as theres always money to be made, and spent. Its just so frustrating to put time into a car that doesn't want to stay running.
 
My question is did you use stock replacement pistons or forged units and if they're forged did you gap the rings to the manufacturer spec or did you gap the rings to Mitsubishi's specs? if you gapped them to Mitsubishi's specs and they're forged units you may have a little ring bind which can cause cylinder wall scarring and oil burning as well as ring land damage......Even if you used the stock pistons and went with after market rings and they expand quicker than the factory ones its concievable to run into ring bind ....But if you never cut the rings (and I'm assuming you did it sounds like you've built engines before) then this is what will happen in short order....
William-
 
Dont be that upset LOL. My HG went out bought the whole timeing kit hg gaskets blah blah pull the head cylinder 3 is all scratched up LOL...did a comp test before all that got between 45-55 in each cylinder. These cars are old, and they need some love man. They have been around for 20+ years going through teenager after teenager

My break in secret is through it on the dyno rofl.
 
It could be as "simple" as maybe the shop overlooked where the ring gaps lined up, the top and bottom should not line up, embarrasingly enough I did this the first time I rebuilt an engine and I had 2 cylinders out of 6 (toyota 7M engine) with really low compression. You would have to break the engine down, but I would start at the shop that assembled it first.
 
It could be as "simple" as maybe the shop overlooked where the ring gaps lined up, the top and bottom should not line up, embarrasingly enough I did this the first time I rebuilt an engine and I had 2 cylinders out of 6 (toyota 7M engine) with really low compression. You would have to break the engine down, but I would start at the shop that assembled it first.

Good point and just to add to that you should make sure that the ring gaps are at least 30 degrees apart from one another from top to bottom
William-
 
i used ITM pistons and ordered them from partsdinosaur.com,

My question is did you use stock replacement pistons or forged units and if they're forged did you gap the rings to the manufacturer spec or did you gap the rings to Mitsubishi's specs? if you gapped them to Mitsubishi's specs and they're forged units you may have a little ring bind which can cause cylinder wall scarring and oil burning as well as ring land damage......Even if you used the stock pistons and went with after market rings and they expand quicker than the factory ones its concievable to run into ring bind ....But if you never cut the rings (and I'm assuming you did it sounds like you've built engines before) then this is what will happen in short order....
William-


i dont think my machinist had to cut the rings, but to be honest im not sure,

Dont be that upset LOL. My HG went out bought the whole timeing kit hg gaskets blah blah pull the head cylinder 3 is all scratched up LOL...did a comp test before all that got between 45-55 in each cylinder. These cars are old, and they need some love man. They have been around for 20+ years going through teenager after teenager

My break in secret is through it on the dyno rofl.

its just frustrating thats all, im 22 years old, i live on my own and barely make $2000 a month, and when im throwing $1200 bucks in a new motor im expecting it to run/last atleast 6 months ya know. i understand these cars have been abused, driver after driver, after driver, but when im putting a NEW motor in with 0 miles it should been golden. Assuming everything is put together right..

It could be as "simple" as maybe the shop overlooked where the ring gaps lined up, the top and bottom should not line up, embarrasingly enough I did this the first time I rebuilt an engine and I had 2 cylinders out of 6 (toyota 7M engine) with really low compression. You would have to break the engine down, but I would start at the shop that assembled it first.

this is a real good point, im going to have to ask the shop how they aligned the rings, i was told that i shouldn't "worry" if its smoking until i pass 500 miles... correct me if thats wrong.. so i may go drive it a little more.

On another note i DID fix my clutch issue, it was the slave cylinder. $13 at autozone, can't beat that. :hellyeah:

This motor is strange, it smokes SOMETIMES just a little, but then other times it smokes like a train, im starting to think maybe i have leaking steam seals....?? When i first started it up today, barely little smoke which i would assume is perfectly normal, but i got my slave cylinder installed, and took it for a drive, no smoke, that i can see at all while driving, even had a friend behind me to make sure. and he said only when i shifted and he said it smelt more like gas (straight pipe no cat) so thats normal. But as soon as i pulled into my garage at home and let it idle, started smoking like crazy....

any ideas?? :confused:

just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who's responded.. :D :thumb: :hellyeah:
 
Why are you buying engines with 100k+miles and expecting them to last? Might as well do a stock rebuild on your own...
 
This motor is strange, it smokes SOMETIMES just a little, but then other times it smokes like a train, im starting to think maybe i have leaking steam seals....?? When i first started it up today, barely little smoke which i would assume is perfectly normal, but i got my slave cylinder installed, and took it for a drive, no smoke, that i can see at all while driving, even had a friend behind me to make sure. and he said only when i shifted and he said it smelt more like gas (straight pipe no cat) so thats normal. But as soon as i pulled into my garage at home and let it idle, started smoking like crazy....

any ideas?? :confused:

just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who's responded.. :D :thumb: :hellyeah:

yea here's another thought on this subject..... also a turbocharger with failing seals on the hot side can do the same thing....(have little to no smoke on start up then as the oil warms and begains leaking at a higher rate it'll smoke like crazy) I've seen that happen many times before remove the 0/2 housing and look into the hot side of the turbo with a bright light. Try to look past the fins of the turbine at the heat shield that sits just behind it. what can happen is oil will build up inside of the shielding then begain to leak out between it and the turbine leaving a wet trail down to the inside of the hot housing. as the oil piles up faster the smoke gets way worse. If you look at the center housing rotating assembly where the hot housing is secured to it you can also see signs of leakage there that may indicate a blown turbo seal........But wasn't your compression a point of concern?

As for the 500 miles and smoking thing, this should only happen at start up and clear out.....maybe under light throttle and the smoke should be very faint...If it's blowing smoke like a steamtrain then chances are there's something wrong......

Oh BTW ask your machinest if he had to cut the rings.....I've seen machinest make mistakes on engine builds before and though no one wants to admit to a mistake during a build we're only human and shit happens....It wouldn't be the first time a machinest made a mistake. The point is that most of the time when your building an engine the rings are never right due to bore inconsistancies that effect ring gap on a seasoned block. when you over bore the block for straitness and then put larger pistons in it requires adjustments in the rings to maintain the ideal gap for your application. Same goes for an engine that is simply being overhauled and honed out rather than bored, and I won't even get into nitrous and high boost big turbo applications which can produce more heat and cause the rings to expand further than expected....If your guy didn't gap the rings and the end gap is too tight then the cylinder walls are being compromised horribly when things heat up........ Just want you to be fully aware of what your looking at in terms of possible damage.

William-
 
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