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New to DSMs, a few dumb questions

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circulo

Probationary Member
7
0
Sep 21, 2011
Athens, Pennsylvania
Hi, I'm beginning research on building a 300 whp daily driver on the 2G DSM platform.

I haven't decided on an exact model because I'm debating between a FWD or an AWD platform. I know the obvious merits and demerits: FWD simplicity with traction issues, AWD traction with complexity. Given that I never launch my cars or do anything stupid like power shifting or spinning the tires on gravel to tarmac transitions, are AWD transmissions and transfer cases still that much of a pain in the ass in regards to reliablity? Can the stock 5 speed AWD and FWD transmissions reliably hold 300-350 whp (with an appropriately rated aftermarket clutch), given that I don't drive like an idiot? How sturdy at OEM axles: do they commonly snap or twist at such power levels?

From my understanding 300 whp on a stock 4G63 is nothing to blink at? No forged internals or aftermarket rods/pistons. Still, should I do anything maintenance related to the engine? I know new rings/main bearings/rod bearings/main bolts/head studs/aftermarket head gasket/new oil pump/water pump/etc are probably a good idea, but what is absolutely required?

I'm also a little confused as to how fueling and engine control works with the 4G63. Is ECMLink a complete tuning suite that reprograms the ECU? Will it tell the ECU how to compensate for larger injectors and larger fuel/air demands? Do I need anything like Super AFC, an aftermarket MAS, or a separate standalone ECU?

Thank you. :)
 
A 300whp FWD car can be a handful to drive, so for me the choice was easy, AWD! But that is your choice. These cars FWD or AWD handle 300-350whp very reliably but maintenace is the key which is sometimes skipped because of the expense. Worn out suspension or engine, transmission mounts will always take a toll on broken driveline parts at HP level where it should not affect it. If the car has high mileage than it would be best to replace the headgasket with stock factory or aftermarket felpro (no need for a MLS gasket at this power level) also water pump and all the belts and fluids, add a set of ARP head studs which are a little more than new head bolts but well worth it. That about it:) Now the ECMLink is the most user friendly system out there, it replaces the stock E-Prom chip with a custom chip inside the stock computer, you can make all the necessary changes yourself whenever the need arises (fuel, timing, air, rpms, etc. too much to list) you do not need anything else to run it except a laptop when making changes. Also the V3 Lite is all you need no reason to get the Full V3 since it will not benefit you. If you decide to go all out down the road than you can upgrade to the full version.
 
^^^ +1... Yeah, also if you don't plan on taking your car to the track or doing any hard launches and your main goal is just to get to 300hp, then i would not be to concerned weather it is a gst or gsx as they both can handle 300hp equally, granted gsx will have better traction off the line, but in your case that is not an concern. It would probably be better to focus on getting the better car for your money in terms of how well it was taken care of by the previous owner(s), it's mileage and title history (no wrecks or salvaged), current body condition (no rust), No hack job installs, etc. etc.... Good luck in your search!:thumb:
 
mine is awd and i love it, mostly because i beat on my car alot when i shouldnt. but i would put new fluids, tune up, gaskets, ARP head studs on it. for 300-350 hp the axles should be fine unless there is a defect with them now. tranny will hold up fine as well with a new clutch. maybe have a stock rebuild on the transmission just to be safe. ive never got to use the ecmlink but i plan on getting it. for your build i would also say the 'lite' would be a better pick for you. the fwd vs awd tranny and transfercase as far as reliabily goes im pretty sure they are about the same. i would think the awd would actule last longer. theres more weight to the awd. welcome to the dsm's! ^^ agreed if your not launching hard i might go with fwd
 
Im currently building a 300+whp Daily Driven DSM as well and its pretty fun. like 1991GSXAWD said the cars can handle 300hp pretty decently but you must stay on maintenance. If something seems fishy don't just push it to the side to put a new turbo on get the problem fixed before trying to go faster so you dont run into problems. Remember this car is going to be your daily driver as well so its better to be safe than sorry. I have a FWD and I prefer it personally just because the majority of the time that I will push the car would be on the highway, merging lanes etc. But AWD isn't bad either having the traction and launch is never a bad thing only downside is more traction more likely you might break something since the force isn't being "released" through the tires spinning. Also you get a tad less gas mileage but that might not be a concern.

Tuning your car might seem like a big task but once you start studying and watching the videos, along with help from forum members it becomes a lot more easier to understand and grasp. ECMLink is what you definetly want even if its just v3Lite it still has loads of functionality.

Depending on the miles as well you might need to change things, for your power goals ( if you want to go on the cheaper side) Get all the maintenance done timing belt, water pump, belts, balance shaft delete, check all your bushings and mounts if there shot then get them replaced personally loud metal clunking is never a pretty noise I dealt with it for a while haha. Get some ARP Headstuds with a Felpro Composite Headgasket so you have some security on that end. After that just follow the normal upgrade path. e316g can put out a good amount of power for these goals at a relatively low cost. You can avoid having to buy a AFPR if you just go with a 190 walbro pump with bigger injectors and not have to worry about paying more, OR You can go for big incase you ever want to upgrade ;)

Armin
 
So as long as I don't drive like an idiot, the stock AWD system shouldn't have too much trouble with 300-350 awhp as a daily driver?
 
def. a new headgasket

The stock headgasket and bolts will handle 350 horsepower just fine as long as you aren't detonating it. I'd do a compression test and if they are in spec don't touch the internals. I would just do timing belt, pulley's, tensioner, wp, fix all oil leaks and go from there. In my opinion awd is the only way to go if you are making more than stock power. And yes the awd transmission can be very reliable. Keep clean oil in it, and DO NOT dump the clutch at high rpm's, And don't shift the shit out of it.
 
I say go AWD. I dont see a problem with you getting on the car. I have owned 5 dsms all of them were FWD other then my current car, and i will tell you i am never going FWD again. Snaping a axles isnt anything but a thing man 62$ lifetime warenty at o'reily.

You sound very worried about breaking stuff, and breaking down, and just car problems in general. If you want to go fast parts fail, and you have to replace them.
 
I say go AWD. I dont see a problem with you getting on the car. I have owned 5 dsms all of them were FWD other then my current car, and i will tell you i am never going FWD again. Snaping a axles isnt anything but a thing man 62$ lifetime warenty at o'reily.

You sound very worried about breaking stuff, and breaking down, and just car problems in general. If you want to go fast parts fail, and you have to replace them.

DSMs have a reputation of being unreliable cars. I don't know whether or not it's true but I'm concerned either way. :coy:

Should I pick one 2G AWD DSM platform over another (Talon TSi AWD vs Eclipse GSX?)

What should I expect to pay for a mid to late 90s vehicle with ~125k miles in good condition? By good condition I mean one with decent paint for a 15 year old car, not rusted out, seats that aren't ripped in half and don't smell like cigarettes and puke, etc. Somewhere in the ballpark of $4k?

I tried looking around craigslist but it's a lot of the usual craigslist activity. Idiots who think their car is worth its weight in gold and clapped out pieces of crap for $1500.
 
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theyre as reliable as you treat them and take car of them. an awd that youre talking about would be around 4500-6000, anything over that it better be seriously nice. if it were me id be looking for a fwd as theyre easier to find and cheaper but of course keep a look out for awd

Does "that I'm talking about" refer to a 300 whp 2g AWD DSM for $4.5-6k, or a stock 2g AWD DSM for $4.5-6k?
 
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Guy deleted his posts, that's weird. Could anyone else chime in on prices? 2G AWD DSM, ~125k miles, good condition interior and exterior, mostly stock, no dumb body kits or terrible mods.
 
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