Stop being a "nutswinger". Gosh; always gotta "bash" people.

99gst_racer said:

Acknowledging flaws and "bashing" are two completely things.

Click to expand...

Listing flaws from 10 years ago as if they are still a current problem is bashing imo.


I wish it was still a community project too. It should be. It was a group effort putting it together. Im not sure how a single person ended up with ownership of it, but that doesnt take anything away from the solid product Jackal in its current state is.

Hey man, you're definitely entitled to your opinion but it's not ok to discredit other peoples'. BTW, DSMap hasn't even been around for 10 years.... and the flaws I speak of such as the timing row looping back to row 1 were present less than 1 year ago. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

91stocker said:

Listing flaws from 10 years ago as if they are still a current problem is bashing imo.

Click to expand...

He's just pointing out that there were critical flaws and still may be some. That's all that was. Anybody with half a brain knows that nothing is perfect. And even if they were corrected 10 (or 1) years ago, it's still not a crime to discuss them or bring them up. Not everybody is familiar with said flaws (myself included), hence the discussion.

Calm down and quit being so emotional about it.

91stocker said:

Listing flaws from 10 years ago as if they are still a current problem is bashing imo.

Click to expand...

No those flaws are 10 years old, and still current. In fact there is a whole new set of flaws that came with the new gui.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with computer coding, but java is the botom feeding garbage of the coding world. Guys in the physics world say "Java, its exactly that, start your code, go get a cup of java, come back and maybe it has atleast started to process your data, if not it probably crashed."

Why in the world would you base tuning software around that? Tuning software is a tool, not some flashy website trying to convince some fratboy he needs to buy axe to get laid.

Ever notice that if you lose connection to the ostrich you have to restart Jackal? Ever notice that Jackal logs even slower than a PDA?

I'm also pretty sure that jackal query's all the loggable data from the ecu, and only shows the ones you want to see. So with the ecu's ridiculously slow serial communications baud rate, why would you want to waste that on things you don't need to see anyway.

How about this one: I wanted to add antilag into jackal, so I loaded my jackal bin into Tunerpro, added antilag, and then loaded it back to the ostrich. Guess what, jackal would no longer load load that bin. That doesn't sound like anything open sourced to me.

Things that need to STOP being brought up.

1. Cost

You will not find one Link user complain about the price, period. The tools you use with Ostrich are made by DSMers, but Ostrich is so cheap because it can be used on multiple vehicles, not just Mitsubishi. This means over the grand scope of things, they can charge less because their customer base is larger. DSM/ECMLink is developed just for DSMs (and arguably Evos, but we all know they stick with ECUFlash as their ECM is stronger out of the box). The amount of research and development that has to go into that product, the cost of outside vendors who produce materials for them (considering they will not buy int he same bulk as larger companies), the cost of maintaining a brick and mortar operation and all it's utilities, the maintaining of a large website, with what is truly an unlimited forum (everyone has 10,000 message limit) all adds to the cost.

The bottom line: Link costs more to make and they have to making a living too. However, it is not overpriced and I have never heard anyone who owns link say "it's not worth it."

2. Features

Tom adds these features for us, he has tons of experience and knowledge. Ostrich relies on it's user base to add these features for specific cars. Therefore, it is not that one can do something the other cannot, it's simply that one will get these options well before the other because it has a dedicated support staff to implement them.

The bottom line: They both are capable of it all, it just hasn't been figured out yet on one.

3. Ease of Setup

First off, no offense intended for Tuners and their staff, but this site is populated with more idiots and newbs than any other DSM site, due to it's national exposure. Therefore any setup questions you see posted here, are not because it is difficult to setup, it's quite the opposite actually. It is because that person thought that Link was like lowering springs, you put them on mechanically and you are done. Wrong.

The setup is simple, you unscrew a few screws remove the ECU cover, pop out the stock chip and plug in the ECM chip. You then install it in your car like you would any other ECU (possibly swap a few plug wires) and plug in an OBD2 to USB cable. Setup is done. Now comes the software, most of these questions probably come from people who bought it used, have no documentation, didn't bother reading the wonderful Wiki page on it on the Link site and didn't get their forum access (as in never contacted Tom).

If anyone thinks that the software setup portion in other systems is that easy, well then they are in for a shock.

The bottom line: Ignorance of the owner is not to be blamed on the creator.

---

What needs to be discussed is this, this is what you need to consider when deciding on which one and it hopefully does not come off as biased.

1. Support

Jackal/Ostrich has a big user base, they have their groups and their forums, but they are not dedicated staffers of a company. They are willing to help, but the problem is, they may not be on the boards every day, or may not have experienced your particular problem. This means you will need to work on figuring much more out yourself, or wait a few days for the answers you need.

Link has a dedicated staff, employees of the company, who are on the boards every day, answering questions. Plus the member base of that forum is made up of people we all call knowledgeable with these cars. Not only will they review your logs and make suggestions, but the answers you need will usually be provided in hours instead of days.

2. Level of Comprehension

I know we all want to believe all it takes is learning and practice, but that is a huge myth. Some people just don't have the time or required knowledge or aptitude to learn tuning. If you are too uncomfortable playing around or plan on having the car tuned at a shop, your best bet is Link. Otherwise either/or is fine (unless you have a 2G, as of right now I implore all 2G owners to stay away from Jackal/Ostrich).

3. Your Preference

This is your money, your decision, anyone who tries to tell you one is worse than the other should be written off. Listen to those providing the facts and then make YOUR decision. Do not listen to people trying to make the decision for you.

bastarddsm said:

No those flaws are 10 years old, and still current. In fact there is a whole new set of flaws that came with the new gui.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with computer coding, but java is the botom feeding garbage of the coding world. Guys in the physics world say "Java, its exactly that, start your code, go get a cup of java, come back and maybe it has atleast started to process your data, if not it probably crashed."

Click to expand...

100% Truth.

This link is written by a well respected computer programmer/hacker. Read his thoughts on Java.

http://www.pavietnam.net/

bastarddsm said:

Ever notice that if you lose connection to the ostrich you have to restart Jackal? Ever notice that Jackal logs even slower than a PDA?

Click to expand...

I've compared logs on tp vs jackal after reading few threads and they log almost identical sample rate on my car with the homebrew cable. I thought the shitty 1g ecu itself was the limitation on logging speed.

[/QUOTE]

OP,

I think that you would be pleased with either ECMLink or Jackal. I myself run Werewolf, which I really enjoy. My first trip into the world of tuning was with Jackal. I went with it largely in part to the convincing by someone who was a large part of that community and then had a falling out with the current "owner". It's a good product and is easy to learn and install. The people who are a part of the community are very supportive. Our numbers are limited though. With ECMLink, there are many more users and as such, much more potential for support.
In my opinion, TunerPro would be difficult for an average person who is new to tuning to learn both how to tune and also how to use the interface. It is very capable, and is limited almost only by your ability to learn the ECU code and your own ideas of the options that you want. There are pre-existing bin files that you can acquire from others, which will have much of what you may want, but I believe that the learning curve is more steep.
Do your research into what features and type of control you want. This will help you with the decision that you eventually choose. If you are a more simplistic point and click kind of guy, ECMLink and Jackal warrant hard looks. If you are more technical, are comfortable with research, trial and error and community discussion, TunerPro has a lot of potential to give you everything that you want.

Good Luck!

BIN/XDF files are not a steep learning curve. The concepts are simple. It's like a book (the bin).... and the xdf is the table of contents and page numbering. I have not once had to edit an xdf yet because most of what I've wanted to do was already done by someone else. If you're a coder or you're not afraid to learn abstract ideas about programming, you too can edit bins/xdfs. This is obviously not going to be for everyone, but a properly matched bin/xdf is VERY easy to use in TPRO and offers all the popular options that you'd want to use to control your car. The only real difference between that and using Jackal would be that Jackal is, like BastardDSM said, tailored only to a DSM and is a bit more simplified. I'd argue that the bin/xdf route is more capable and will teach you more of what you would want to know should you later decide to get into some other type of race vehicle other than a DSM. The owner of TPro gives his software out for free with no crippling effect other than a small wait screen at the beginning of the app starting.

I, honestly, would like to tune a car on dsmlink some time just to learn the software and get a chance to use it and see what can be squeezed out of it. I really like the idea of using a MAF now too and that's not something that's possible with all the tuning solutions for DSM's. Limiting your options and functionality of your car was never something that I was interested in and it seems like that's the direction that Jackal has taken with it's recent licensing schemes and lack of the same features that can be had for free using TunerPro. Of course you could largely do the same thing that Link does with TPro but you'd have to figure out your own logger crap because bin tracing on the ostrich isn't as high of a resolution as you'd like.

If bin tracing with a good resolution ever gets figured out then we can likely not use the 1953 baud serial interface (obd1 logger port in dsm) to log everything. The polling of the ecu for every value at every interrupt is definitely not a good thing and I believe that is how the DSMLink guys have such a high logging resolution. It may not be all of it, but their logger is VERY good and nobody else really has figured out how to squeeze more data samples out of a 1g ecu except them. That's something I'm willing to pay for. Crappy resolution on your logging is a really crippling thing when you have hardware capable of 700hp.

TexasTurbo said:

BIN/XDF files are not a steep learning curve. The concepts are simple. It's like a book (the bin).... and the xdf is the table of contents and page numbering. I have not once had to edit an xdf yet because most of what I've wanted to do was already done by someone else.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting and much easier way to understand the relationship between the two. Thank you for listing it this way. Have you been able to get your car running while using TPro?

TexasTurbo said:

I, honestly, would like to tune a car on dsmlink some time just to learn the software and get a chance to use it and see what can be squeezed out of it. I really like the idea of using a MAF now too and that's not something that's possible with all the tuning solutions for DSM's. Limiting your options and functionality of your car was never something that I was interested in and it seems like that's the direction that Jackal has taken with it's recent licensing schemes and lack of the same features that can be had for free using TunerPro.

Click to expand...

These were the exact opposite of your beliefs previously, as recently as late last year. What attributed to your change of position? Has the experience of switching to TPro been the main factor in changing your position?

There's nothing to attribute my change in thinking other than I've gotten away from speed density purists long enough to realize that a MAF is just fine and there's no reason for anyone to say one way of metering air is better than the other. The pressure drop across the MAF says it all. Even a reputable name at FP said this way back in the day when I was still being an idiot about how S/D was the end all be all of tuning. It, totally, is not.

Some of the high horsepower AEM guys use both MAF and MAP. I *believe* they like to use the MAP for fuel compensation and the MAF for timing compensation. I forget the exact reasons why, but remember someone telling me that this was an ideal situation but overkill for most peoples' needs.

I really did not like the hot start up issues with Jackal like when you've driven to the corner store, get out, come back 2 minutes later and start your car.... the idle/tune seemed like it was completely lost. This was reported by many people and still the fix ended up being a static changeable compensation that would have to be f'd with depending on what the temperature was outside. The lack of proper barometric pressure compensation is also a problem along with the lack of true IAT based fuel/timing compensation. True s/d systems need those options to run the car properly at all altitudes/weather conditions. The stock dsm ecu is great, but like I said, if you're not making over 400 or so hp there's not really a reason to even change away from a maf. Editing VE tables to get your car to run right is a good practice to learn how to tune, but it's completely unnecessary with other tuning methohds. This alone turns most people away from tuning. It's good to know how to tune your car, but it shouldn't be a daunting task that is constantly needing attention. For the record, my car ran well on Jackal, but I was CONSTANTLY screwing with the tune and carrying a laptop around in the car with me which I didn't like doing. I hated trying to leave work in 100 degree weather and getting in the car to find that something with the tune hadn't been addressed yet for that condition, changing it, and only finding the next morning when it was cooler outside that I had to modify the tune back for the cooler weather.

I wouldn't venture to say that my car ever was truly PERFECT as far as the tune went. It was probably close a lot of times but it seemed like even when it was "right" it would still decide something else a few days later. I liked the experience but it was a pain in the ass tbh. I was messing with the ecu stuff in my car way more than anyone should. You should tune your car and drive it every day without playing all these tiddly winks with a laptop every time you want to do something else. This is all not to mention all the crap that changed in my VE table when I got cams. My whole shit had to be redone. If I had a maf that whole time it wouldn't have been very difficult to install a new part and see EXACTLY how much airflow I gained as a result.

edit: please understand i'm not trying to turn this into s/d vs. maf but rather just saying that I can see the benefits of both sides and they each have their place. Nobody is really "wrong" for using one or the other, it's just a personal preference regarding the level of involvement you wish to have with your car's tune.

As we continue down this path, can I solicit folks for more information on why the MAF is considered a restriction in a set of cars that runs 12s+ on average?

This is not a shot at your times, folks...this is a legit request for a legit "why". Blaha was running times faster than 90% of the "MAF is a restriction" guys 10+ years ago on a 1g MAF with a soldered resistor and a flapper door...

^^Wow! That's what he was doing? I always heard of blaha maf's. It makes perfect sense to put a resistor inline to make the signal have to get "heavier" before telling the ecu it's at it's limit.

Yessir. Sometimes I forget that "common knowledge" may or may not be common based on what tech was available when we all got into the game.

Hell of a nice guy, too. Nothing like having him help tune your car, then getting into his lag-monster Supra for a "demo" ride around town. [/thegoodoldays]

I can attest to the odd behavior at startup and unpredictable behavior of Jackal. I had no idea it wasn't really doing calculations for true air density based on temperature. That is a real disappointment. Does TP allow for calculating this correctly? I've got no problem with learning more code.

I'm going to chime in here to give you guys my feedback... A little history lesson before I do.

I've owned 4 DSM's in the past 10 years. I know... pittly shit to some of you. But I've been around the game here for quite a while. I've recently parted out my last DSM and currently have no Mitsu related ties. I could care less who wins this battle, but I hope my info helps.

The first DSM I owned was a 1990 GS. No turbo no power no frills. Wrecked it... RIP

Second was a replacement for the first and it was a '91 TSi. I, like many of you, remember reading all of the VFAQ's from VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions and decided that my first tuning venture would be to get an SAFC. At the time many of us were using only 650cc injectors to power our 20g's and didn't really need much else. Larger injectors were considered nonsense and rediculous. Yes, we knew the limitations of the SAFC, as it lies to the ECU about what airflow you are actually pushing aswell as puts you into a lower timing load row which in turn makes your car run like a badass but yet induces knock due to high timing. A lot of us started messing around with W/A injection and a buddy of mine also messed with propane injection to mask this. At the time there wasn't a real good option for the 1g other than this or an HKS VPC/GCC, as DSMlink was only produced back then for the 2g. If you wanted to you could use evilscribe to burn your own chips. But Tunerpro was in its infancy as well as Link. DSMAP and SD for DSMs was unheard of.

Fast forward a couple more years. I parted my second DSM due to financial reasons. Bought a 2g and drove it for quite a while. Never did much with it but drove it and some free mods.

Come to 2005 and I bought my last dsm. '91 TSi again. At this time I had a great job and was able to start putting money into this project. Started with pretty much a shell. Built the engine, started upgrading stock parts. Started breaking stock parts and the cycle would continue.

My first setup was a standard Small 16g off of my 2g and then came the 650cc injectors and I needed to research what tuning platform I would take on. Being as how I had ran fairly well on a 20g with 650's and an SAFC with W/A injection. I went that route. I also upgraded the MAF at that time to a 2g MAF from my 2g. As when you add a 2g maf to a 1g on the stock ecu bin, it registers less airflow to the ECU already and helps with your timing map. Anyways, I was still having issues with knock. So, at this point I started looking into my options of how to edit the code.

My research led me to the DSM-ECU Yahoo Group where I learned of an Eprom burner and Software to edit the bin. So, I started off with just a Hex editor and notepad and some basic instructions from www.hwnd.org . Don't know if that site is still up but it was a great resource for basic hex editing of the stock bin.

I ran this setup for quite a while and had very good results. I really had no reason to change to any sort of other tuning solution. Link had no more features than what I could program with a hex editor and nothing else was strikingly better. So I stayed put.

Enter Speed Density. When the raves of better driveability entered the interwebs, I got curious. I did like most great DSMr's do and went on the cheap. I joined the DS-MAP community and started in with my conversion to the "ever better" SD. So, I traded my perfectly running 2g mas/eprom burnt tune in favor of of the at the current time "DS-MAP DEVEL" version. Loaded it up, plugged in the basemap and was off to tuning. I assumed wrong when the community said I should be able to load up the basemap compensate for injectors and get driving. Wrong.... This shows you that every car flows air differently. I had to modify my VE map drastically to even go around the block. Well.. Come to find out, the person who developed the basemap, while running a perfectly stock car, only tuned a certain portion of the map. So, it was log, edit, log, edit, log, edit...... for quite a while. So, while a lot of people claimed to have exceptional gains with their driveability. After about 2 weeks of constant tuning I finally was able to consider my tune equal to what I had. Whoopideedoo... Well, then comes when we updated to "Jackal" The GUI changed from a seemingly easy editor to use to a pretty much useless interface. That was the first version of Jackal. As it progressed, it got much easier to use. But, you have to remember, the guy designing this software was doing this in his free time, didn't own a dsm, but at the time really had an good attitude of helping out the community.

Since he had no DSM to test software on, he would generally call on anyone who was in the chat room late at night. I helped work a few bugs out myself. I think I wasted, on one occasion, a 1/2 a tank of gas just sitting there in my driveway idling with my laptop trying to help him figure out some logger issues. We worked them out and he sent out a new updated .jar file.

There were always issues that everyone noticed were problems. One in particular that drove me crazy was a hot start issue where the car runs rediculously lean during a hotstart due to the IAT becoming "heatsoaked". Supposidly not a programming error. But nontheless, it never did it with my MAF setup. I believe the stock ECU and FPS have this issue sorted from the factory as the FPS Closes not letting vacuum to the FPR in order to raise fuel pressure during a hot start. Most of us bypass the FPS from the getgo and utilize it for other purposes, ie W/A Relay control. Mentioning that gives me another bone to pick. When we first implemented the FPS control with Jackal there was a programming bug that didn't protect the end user. On a number of occasions the default setup with the FPS was set too low. If you did a hot swap with the bin to the ostrich the default settings for FPS would be too low. If I recall correctly the RPM, MAP, and TPS was set to 0 so anything above 0 would Make the FPS circuit close and in my circumstance the W/A Injection would kick on. There was one instance where I pulled into a parking lot, shut of my car, went inside, came back out and my ostrich had dumped its tune. I went back to a failsafe tune with the defaults for FPS control and as soon as I sent it over to the ostrich, my W/A Injection kicked on. Easier than fumbling with the laptop I popped the hood and unplugged the relay. Could have been bad. But that's ok... right?

Moving on up... I upgraded injectors to 1650 blue maxxes, a large Holset, and every other mod you can think of. Everyone had tuning issues with the 1650's not just SD guys, unless they were using an Easy Tune box. Myself included. Couldn't get it to idle for shit. Buy an easytune and my problems wer solved. But according to the leader of DS-MAP I got ripped off... I didn't think so because my car ran great after that.

Idle at the start of my conversion to the bluemaxes. Sounds badass right? Well it ran like ass.

1g DSM First Start w/Holset - YouTube

After installation of an easytune box and about an hour of tuning. Smooth as butter. And this is with FP2 cams!

1g DSM Idle w/FIC 1650's and FIC EasyTune - YouTube

In conclusion... If I did it all again, I would have just stayed put with the MAF and an Ostrich. Until I maxxed them out and then I would have went with a better all around tuning solution. Link... maybe. AEM EMS... Probably, DS-MAP... At this time, No.

As for DS-MAP. At the time of the drama on the site I was in the process of parting this last DSM out due to more financial turmoil. I did follow flux to the DSMECU site and helped get it up and operational and moderate it with him and a few select others.

I will admit, aswell as Texas Turbo did, that I was brainwashed into thinking that Jackal was the one and only way to go. I have done my fair share of Link, Tuners and other Forum bashing while a member of DS-Map. For those of you that I've emotionally hurt. I'm sorry.

Thanks for reading.

->PrOjEcTGS<- said:

I will admit, aswell as Texas Turbo did, that I was brainwashed into thinking that Jackal was the one and only way to go. I have done my fair share of Link, Tuners and other Forum bashing while a member of DS-Map. For those of you that I've emotionally hurt. I'm sorry.

Click to expand...

Is this where I take my "tin foil hat" bit?



Thanks for an honest apology. Despite the unfounded belief we support one over the other because of whatever reason; we don't. We like choices, but we sure don't like the shit having these choices available has caused over the years. It's juvenile at BEST; libelous at worst.

Yeah you can take your tin foil hat back... I will no longer be needing it.

BTW, for anyone interested in www.hwnd.org for basic DSM hex bin editing. I got it on the Wayback machine here: hwnd.org - 1G DSM EPROM Editing

Yeah, I (FluxCapacitor) will say sorry as well. I went to the DSM Shoot Out in 2010 and had a blast there. Everyone was having such a good time and NOBODY was arguing tuning solutions. I think it was close to then that I realized that none of that shit mattered. Supporting DSMap did nothing for me other than make me some good friends and allowed me to do what I already liked doing which is help people.

I know a bit about tuning, I'm not an expert that can run a shop, but I can definitely assist with any questions about any tuning related crap. If any of you guys need help feel free to PM me and I'll gladly assist you as much as I can with whatever tuning solution you're using. I really need to get my hands on a DSMLink so I can do online support for anyone that needs help.

Looks like my question got overlooked.

Will TunerPro allow for correctly calculating airflow with IAT and Pressure?

A 2G MAF is good for around 50 lbs. per min. It isn't a restriction for most people. Once again, I refer back to that, there are a lot of idiots and newbs out there.

eclipsh said:

Looks like my question got overlooked.

Will TunerPro allow for correctly calculating airflow with IAT and Pressure?

Click to expand...

No...

TunerPro in and of itself is just a means to view and edit information in the ECU's bin file. Unless you actually get down into the programming of HEX code in the bin file you still only have just a GUI for viewing your already edited code.

This is how TunerPro works. You have a bin file, which is all the information in the ECU's EPROM. Then you have an .xdf file that you open up in TP. The XDF file just gives you shortcuts to the specific addresses in the bin file to edit.

So, if you find, develop or stumble across some code to do what you're wanting it to do, you would first program it in HEX directly in the bin file and then create a shortcut in TP in the .xdf to gain access to your table, string, or address quickly without having to search for the address in all those lines of HEX.

Does that help?

Eclipsh - as far as I know, none of the s/d implementations do this properly. I could be wrong because I haven't messed with Link but the others are the same thing as what people used to call "fake maf". It's basically locking the IAT at a certain value and doing all the fuel correction off of the 5v MAP signal. I would say this is largely the reason that the s/d setups don't do well w/ weather changes and altitude changes vs. a maf because the maf doesn't get rid of this functionality as it's built in to handle a task from the factory. S/D implementations that I've been familiar with eliminate that variable from the whole equation. A real aftermarket ecu has provisions for this so it is not an issue, but the code on the dsmecu is rather limited. Don't get me wrong, it's got a lot of features and things to play with but it leaves a lot to be desired.

ProjectGS - there is another way to edit the code but it requires getting a custom Motorola compiler running on your system and compiling the eprom images.

Thanks for the info guys. Maybe I'll go back to a MAS system one of these days. I will chat with Hak more about how his system uses the IAT sensor info these days too.

Holy crap. I read through 1.5 pages of the Jackle vs Link nut swinging contest, thought this died. Geeze I should just troll and make fake screen names and keep asking which would be better in 10 different threads. Tuners would melt down.

Here is my take on all of it. And also I've dabbled a bit in Jakle and helped some local friends that run it. I know Red97Rum (dustin) personally and can attest his car is fast. I have proficient background in tuning several fuel managment and total engine management systems including piggy back AFC's, Maf Translators, HKS VPC, and Greddy Emanage. As far as complete tuning solutions I've done Ostrich based units using TunerPro/Jackle, DSMlink V2.5 and V3 lite/full, ECU+, ECUflash on 2G ECUs using CEDDY, and also Tephra v5/7 on EVO ECU swaps, and AEM EMS (currently running daily in my personal car). Aside from the DSM platform, done Subarus with ECUflash, a Miata with a LinkECU, AEM EMS in an EVO, a boosted S2000, and SR20 240SX's.
Any of the above mentioned systems (for DSM's) I can get the same power out of any system on the same given car. My car alone picked up no gains going from DSMlink to AEM EMS except for like 3.5whp in the midrange. Woopty doo! $1200 for 3.5whp. But I don't like EMS for that reason, its the options for EVERYTHING!!! Total control of EVERY ASPECT of the car, I can use a sensor/injector/coil off any car in the world really, turn boost up/down/sideways and it runs the same AFR no matter what. Switch from wasted spark to individual driven coils, high/low inpedence injectors, if I can mount a chevy cam sensor to a 4g63, it will run it. Not only just control 3 levels of rev limits, but how it does it, by either retarding timing, cutting fuel or cutting ignition. Drag and rally style antilag. And my most favorite option is internal onboard logging with adjustable data rates of 250samples per/sec per channel (lets see any other solution touch that sample rate) for a max recording time of 6min17sec. to long logs @ 1 sample per second with max recording time of 27hours, so if you gotta record most of a lap running time attack at Nurnburgring at max data sample or a 24hour LeMans race, its got you covered. (wouldnt want to dig through a 24hour log.. )
But as much as I just preached about the EMS, I wouldnt recommend it to anyone. Other than other hacker tweaker nuts like me that like messing with ECU parameters on a daily basis changing 1 setting out of 1000 by 3% just to switch it back two weeks later.

I for one, have played with a good chunk of options out there. All of them work, all the piggy backs are Crap and I hope everyone here would agree with that.

ECU+.....it is what it was, and that why 80% of you dont even know what that is and it even existed.

ECUflash with Ceddy Mods is a good option for 2G guys if there was more development. It pretty much stopped last time I checked. But for those with a 98~99 ECU currently in your car and goals of 300~350whp, it works great and amazing bang for the buck.

ECUflash with and EVO ECU....if you are a hacker tweaker kid that just loves to do something weird and already know what you are doing with tuning. Then, go for it, its a fun thing to tinker with and the Tephra options are vast and you can spend days looking at numbers and testing.

As for Jackle whats with you guys? Its understanable you like what you have, but dont act all Jehova's whitness and go door to door preaching the gospel. But on technical side, it works, and well. Get the job done, and cheap. GUI could use some work, and logging could use some work. Driveability is slightly effected by the load cap (similar to V2 of link), but its nothing to cry about. Just makes the car more on/off style powerband, you lack the definition between the load cap and max boost. Again, as everyone earlier stated, sorta unfinished, but still potential for a lot and works well, not to mention priced generaously. Good for sorta tweaker guys, enough support on forums to get full noobies (people who dont understand the concept of tuning period, absolutly nothing) started.

Lastly ECMlink. They mail it to you plug and play with a base map in it to start your car and drive like it was stock. For those that have trouble starting it, shouldn't be diving into Link alone and spend more time learning. Wether it was link or Jackle, they wouldnt get their car to start because the root problem is not the tuning solution, its the car. You get 2G guys who dont understand WHY plug wires need to be swapped when going to a 95~96 ecu in a 97~99 cars. They dont understand the concept behind the inverted CAS signals. You get the 1G guys with 1000 electrical problems and other mechanical problems and they thought that tuning was all the needed but in reality the car wasnt working right to begin with. As far as tuning, first and formost, ECM link logging. No need for serial adapters (v3 only) or a laptop with a serial port. 70 sample per/sec data rate with LIVE graphing! <one feature I've not seen in any other setup (cant say much for Jackle and Tunerpro, been a year or so since I last touched one, but then logging was through MMCD/TMOlogger/Evoscan). Basic adjustments on the fly via the sliders or load based 3d maps through the DA tables with load cap at 28psi for Lite versions and dont recall a cap for Full. Load completely scalable. Support for most of the popular aftermarket sensors, amazing forum support, amazing logger (did I already say that?). Anything and everything under the sun for 99% of people trying to get everything out of your car from on the fly map switching (though you gotta get creative for auto switching based on parameters or from petrol to alcohol) all in one easy to navigate GUI. Price...up there but not the most expensive, but not cheap. But you definitely get your moneys worth. Burgar in Mcdonalds vs a Burger from a diner. Yeah you can get a "burger" at Mc'D's for $2.99 on thursdays. Why pay 7.99 for a burger from Chili's? Both will fight off hunger, keep you alive in the african wilderness. One just taste better. Not saying the comparison is exactly that bad, but Jackle vs Link. Both are great options, both will achive whatever power goals you want. Both easy to navigate and tune compared to what I've used and played with (LinkECU <not related to DSMlink in anyway> in that miata was worst by far, no hotkeys and you had to type numbers in individual cells one by one in a 3d map. And fuel values were not in % or target AFR, but a number and it was roughly "3" per 1% fuel. So if you wanted to add 10% fuel at a given RPM it was 30+current value in cell. It sucked, not to mention timing was a value of 5 per degree of timing. Logging spat out numbers in an excel sheet) But between the two main fighters in thus nut swining thread, you get what you pay for, both great, none of which you will buy and feel like you over spent. They are both worth their value dollar for dollar.

Everything has its value and cost. To me the value of a ostrich/Jackle setup is worth its cost. Same goes for Link, and for Me, and not most of you, so is the AEM EMS. My girlfriend thinks the value of her shoes and bags are worth the cost. To me it all looks the same, over sized bags to put your crap in it. Jansport backpack, ton of space for crap, works and you dont have to carry it.

Sorry for the ramble, hope it was informing.