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On a completely different note, as i clearly stated. The ohv v8 does dominate the world. Old tech my ass. Like i said its just as old as the dohc motor. Ohv came out on top.

Since when does the ohv V8 still dominate the world? Maybe some of the U.S., but Europe is way ahead of that in terms of technology.

Imo the world still needs to catch up to the power and reliability the american cars put out. If they somehow manage that, then they need to match the price. Which will never ever happen.

American cars maybe put out more horsepower, but they always have to do it by increasing displacement. Go to Europe, I gaurantee, every engine there has a better hp/L of displacement than its American counterpart. It takes technology and know-how to make a small engine powerful, any no brainer can make big power out of big displacement engines, heck, your the one driving the DSM that is a 2.0L and beats most stock V-8s three times the size.
 
Why doesn't this forum have imod again?
 
Since when does the ohv V8 still dominate the world? Maybe some of the U.S., but Europe is way ahead of that in terms of technology.

How about almost every serious racing series :hmm: Drag or road race. GT racing is like all vettes, camaros, mustangs, with a couple bmw's thrown in the mix.

American cars maybe put out more horsepower, but they always have to do it by increasing displacement. Go to Europe, I gaurantee, every engine there has a better hp/L of displacement than its American counterpart. It takes technology and know-how to make a small engine powerful, any no brainer can make big power out of big displacement engines, heck, your the one driving the DSM that is a 2.0L and beats most stock V-8s three times the size.

Reliable power > hp/L. Making 638hp reliable enough for consumers take a 6.2L. More displacement makes more reliable power, thats not opinion. Ever see the service schedule for those "high end" euro cars.

heck, your the one driving the DSM that is a 2.0L and beats most stock V-8s three times the size.

Yea stock street car v8's. Slicks, gear, and a 100shot will put a ls1 out of the range of 90% of the dsm's out there and its still basically stock.


just get the v8 model aerial atom and call it a day... LOL

That would be sick haha
 
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But ignorance is bliss isnt it.

Because GM isn't totally pulling the #### out of America. I know for a fact that 2 plants have shut down in my state while Hyundai managed to open one. And the Hyundai is going to get better mileage, and have more standard features. And cost less. And have a better build quality.

And 2-3 years of acceptableness isn't enough to make up for being 2 decades behind the curve.

As for 30-37 mpg. My SC1 averages nearly 40 combined city/highway. But yeah general motors shut that down. Turned all the Saturns into platform vehicles, which was in theory to save money, but the prices all went up, MPG went down. Then they killed off the brand entirely.

I was brought up to be a Chevy/GM person. But really, their vehicles have been such utter crap with exception a fair few examples for the majority of my life its gonna quite a few more years to get my confidence back.

The ohv v8 does dominate the world. Old tech my ass.

I think the reason its referred to as "Old tech" is because it was cheaper and easier to produce cost effectively for a long time. Now OHC is just as easy and cheap to produce, and it generally produces more HP, More Torque, and more fuel economy.

Imo the world still needs to catch up to the power and reliability the american cars put out. If they somehow manage that, then they need to match the price. Which will never ever happen.

LOL. Yeah man, what world are you living in? American cars never as reliable as Hondas/Toyotas. They are generally more expensive. They are generally behind in the power department as well.
 
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Had a jetta vr6 and i miss the comforts and quality of it.
That being said my vote is
Power (with basic tune;))/ fuel conomy: 2002+ GTI
Fun/ RIDICULOUS milage: Any year TDi storys of 1000km a tank and if maintained will go to 300000km on the engine easy!
 
I saw the new 2011 Honda Fit in person the other day it's not as horrible as previous versions and the new 2011 Elentra isn't bad looking either.

If I get a new car I might get one of those.

I would suggest Kia/Hyundai if your getting a new car. A lot of them are running the Theta-II which is the Hyundai variant of the 4b11 And the usually have a lot of standard features. Pretty good value imo. I really wish I would have gotten a Forte Koup or a Elantra instead of the ION Redline. I've been thinking of putting up for sale since its paid off.
 
gusu, i would get a 4th gen eclipse, fiat 500, kia forte, or a lancer gts. all great cars. all new with warranties. all good gas millage. but for the most part any new car is going to give you what you want it all comes down to what you like.
As far as this argument of domestic vs import. i don't see why domestics even have a leg to stand. The majority of there cars are built outside the us. (i.e. Mexico and Canada). The reliability of the majority of them has been nothing but shit ever since the end of the 70s. and should i point out there is no big 3 anymore there is a big 2 ford and gm. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat. I also don't think GM should count as a domestic company anymore since they started re-badgeing Daewoos and selling them as Aveos. GM=Mistake!!! Ford wouldn't be so bad but all there cool cars in my opinion are in Europe. (i.e. focus RS) and the mustang is just boring now its been the same old bs forever, time for a new sports car ford.
To: 91stocker didn't Michigan basically go bankrupt because of the bad business practice of the former "Big 3"?
 

AAAAAAAHHHHgreed

+1

"standard homeless dude box style cars." - Thats a civic isnt it?

When i think homeless hippie, civic hatch comes to mind.

Op it seems you were set on your decision before asking this question. So why troll? This thread is pointless.

Another import fanboy.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHgreed... freakn libs.

I'm not at all trolling. It just seems like every car made after 99 in the US is a brick on wheels.

I'm also not a import fanboy that buys foreign only. Which is really kind of funny you would say it sends money else where seems how those companies seem dead set on moving to Canada while more foreign companies are creating jobs for people here.

I also don't have my mind made up and was looking for ideas. The only "American" car manufacture if you want to call it that since their headquarters is here, they market their cars for here even though their part of Toyota would be Scion for the TC. But honestly I don't research a lot of other car and haven't ever really had a need to until recently.

I want something my GF wont complain about that gets good gas mileage and does not make me feel like a douche when trying it.

I see cars like PT Cruisers, the "Cube", the new Comaro, the Charger, etc. Even cars that once had nice styling have went to square like shapes. The best looking of all the old muscle cars would have to be the Mustang, and that is mostly because they tried pretty hard to bring back the style people loved. Plus I've always been a fan of the Shelby GT500.

Nah it's cool send your cash to japan
 
I've personally owned several cars from both sides of the fence, so I'm not partical to any one manufacturer or country of origin. I can appreciate certain aspects of almost any car ever made. But, I do find the argument almost amusing at times. Ironically, my Chevy was assembled by mexicans in Mexico, and my Mitsubishi was assembled by Americans in Illinois. The "buy American" agrument doesn't hold water like it did 15+ years ago.

One of my eldely customers was recently in my showroom and told me about two of his cars. He bought a new Buick and a Toyota at the same time for himself and his wife. The Buick had rotted out rocker panels and a tranny overhaul before the Toyota ever had it's air filter serviced. He felt just as mich disappointment by the "american car" as you do of the american people regarding the "american car". And this story came from a guy who has only ever bought GM products up to that point.


gusu - Have you looked at a 2011 Hyundai Elantra? It's not my cup of tea, but it might fit you. 150 HP, 6-speed manual, and 40 mpg.

2011 Hyundai Elantra, style, space and 40 MPG.

Another one to consider would be a VW diesel. Something about 5 years old. I don't know enough about them to recommend a specific model or year, but a frends wife drives one (Jetta I think) and gets phenonomenal fuel economy for it's power and weight.

It's where the money is going. It doesn't matter if the hunk a shit Toyota was made in America... which it was assembled... the money STILL GOES OVERSEAS.
And you don't know the whole story with the cars from this elder.
 
It's where the money is going. It doesn't matter if the hunk a shit Toyota was made in America... which it was assembled... the money STILL GOES OVERSEAS.
And you don't know the whole story with the cars from this elder.

Yeah lets give all our money to greedy bastards at gm who are paying mexican workers to assemble there cars. lets keep the big ceos in the money screw the little people because the its all about the big wigs right. Go Domestic!!!!:thumb:
 
Yeah lets give all our money to greedy bastards at gm who are paying mexican workers to assemble there cars. lets keep the big ceos in the money screw the little people because the its all about the big wigs right. Go Domestic!!!!:thumb:

And the CEO's at Toyota aren't greedy? Secondly, big corporations provide jobs, so you should invest in the COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN. Third, my GM was assembled in Illinois.
 
Yeah lets give all our money to greedy bastards at gm who are paying mexican workers to assemble there cars. lets keep the big ceos in the money screw the little people because the its all about the big wigs right. Go Domestic!!!!:thumb:

Too bad GM and ford are two of the top ten employers in the US. Almost a million jobs in the US. All of which are good paying jobs that can support a family on. Jobs that dont take 8 years in college to get. The big three are keeping this country alive. Also its too bad GM has already paid back their bailout months ago, showing their support for the US.

It's where the money is going. It doesn't matter if the hunk a shit Toyota was made in America... which it was assembled... the money STILL GOES OVERSEAS.
And you don't know the whole story with the cars from this elder.

Yes exactly. The money gets funneled right back to ching chang chong over in bangcock. They only built shops here for import tax reasons. Allows them to sell cars cheaper, so dont fool yourself.

Because GM isn't totally pulling the #### out of America. I know for a fact that 2 plants have shut down in my state while Hyundai managed to open one. And the Hyundai is going to get better mileage, and have more standard features. And cost less. And have a better build quality.

You live in the wrong state then. They're opening new plants and bought a massive chunk of land to open a factory on over here in michigan.

Hyundai isnt on the same level as any of the major car manufacturers. Just some korean junk. They're motors are built by mitsubishi which chrysler basically owns with its many many bailouts over the years. That's the only reason dsm happened basically, to avoid bankruptcy. Chrysler just announced too that they will not bailout or invest anymore money in mitsubishi. So bye bye mitsu cars in the near future. You might be able to buy a mitsu tv though ROFL

Toyota had quite a few years where their motors in the trucks were complete trash. Made decent hp but were just a pile. The truck bodies are made from pop cans and twist like a pretzel. Then the whole gas pedal sticking recall on their cars. Real nice qc to let that slip by.

Honda had a good thing going for them when they made cheap eco cars. 110hp 50mpg cars. Now they want civics to be race cars or some shit. They have gone backwards on mpg as well. The crx in the 80's could get 50. Now with them pushing for more n/a 4cyl hp its only going to lower reliability.

Nissan has one car that can somewhat compete, the gtr. But it still got its ass handed to it by the zr1 and the zo6.

I think the reason its referred to as "Old tech" is because it was cheaper and easier to produce cost effectively for a long time. Now OHC is just as easy and cheap to produce, and it generally produces more HP, More Torque, and more fuel economy.

If ohv can make 8-9000hp on top fuel cars i think its enough for your street car. Dohc just adds cost, cost to make, cost to maintain. Much harder to maintain because of the added complication of it all. Change a timing chain on a 350, can do it in an hour and cost like $30. Now take the dohc, it runs damn near $400 because you cant only do the belt, now its water pump, oil pump, belts, tensioners, blah blah. Plus you damn near have to pull the motor to do it.

Thats going backwards imo. Ohv is simpler, cheaper, easier to maintain, and because of of that, more reliable. You cant argue that a chevy 350 isnt reliable. Its basically indestructible LOL. Theres also a video on youtube of a ls1 6 speed getting 30+mpg. That perty much puts all imports to shame right there.
 
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Hyundai isnt on the same level as any of the major car manufacturers. Just some korean junk. They're motors are built by mitsubishi which chrysler basically owns with its many many bailouts over the years. That's the only reason dsm happened basically, to avoid bankruptcy. Chrysler just announced too that they will not bailout or invest anymore money in mitsubishi. So bye bye mitsu in the near future.

Toyota had quite a few years where their motors in the trucks were complete trash. Made decent hp but were just a pile. The truck bodies are made from pop cans and twist like a pretzel. Then the whole gas pedal sticking recall. Real nice qc to let that slip by.

Hahahahaha....
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Hahahahaha....

Find one flaw in that quote smart guy.

Chrysler has kept mitsubishi alive since the early 80's. What happens to hyundai when the company making their motors goes under LOL. No more 4b11 coupe thats for sure.

Toyota trucks when first released had this big 300hp motor. They were junk. Took a few years and a few recalls to make them right. Its still barely a truck, more like an inflated s-10.
 
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Almost the whole thing...that's why I quoted it. I think you have a hard time distinguishing your opinion from fact. Like if you were to say "I think" before any of those statements it wouldn't be so funny. But you come across like what you're saying is always fact; when in reality it's just your flawed opinion.
 
I drive a 99 civic as a dd and I dont care what anyone says. If its reliable, Ill drive it. I would love to have a geo storm tho.... love em.
 
Almost the whole thing...that's why I quoted it. I think you have a hard time distinguishing your opinion from fact. Like if you were to say "I think" before any of those statements it wouldn't be so funny. But you come across like what you're saying is always fact; when in reality it's just your flawed opinion.

Its just common sense, when you look past the marketing gimmicks and hype.

I drive a 99 civic as a dd and I dont care what anyone says. If its reliable, Ill drive it. I would love to have a geo storm tho.... love em.

Yea but just about every car's motor will outlast its body if you live in a snowy state. Its comes down to maintenance costs. Geo would be cheap, cavalier/sunfire would be cheap. Mid 90's buick regals with the 3.1 or 3.8 also cheap. Plus intial cost of the car. Civics are over priced because every punk kid thinks its a race car. Where you can grab cavaliers for 1k all day long in great shape. Even if you rag the piss out of it and blow it up, just grab a motor from a junk yard for $300 and keep on rolling. All parts are cheap, earlier ones are ohv, which means more cheap maintenance. Gets 30mpg with the 5 speed and looks pretty decent. (Just using cavs as an example and not the end all dd ok flamers)
 
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I know what your saying but I got my 2door clean civic ex si clone for $1600 with 112k runs great only problems I have ever had were normal wear and tear.
 
Back to car Ideas. I onwed a early 90's honda as my first car. I got a good 30 city in it, and it handled nice, but thats about it for that. I also drove a 94 mercury tracer wagon (my gfs but she did not have a licnese so I drove it all the time). That thing had 300k + miles on the engine before we sent it to the junkyard. And we junked it cause a brake line snapped and her dad did not want to fix it. Ugly but it worked amazing. My mom's boyfriend has a 05 Celica GTS. Great gas milage and zippy. The newer ones are still pricy (he payed 15k cash for his) But some of the earlier 2000's are down to 4 or 5k know.
 
It's where the money is going. It doesn't matter if the hunk a shit Toyota was made in America... which it was assembled... the money STILL GOES OVERSEAS.
And you don't know the whole story with the cars from this elder.
A good chuck of "the money" pays the American workers that assembled it. Did you forget that?

So, it pays american workers and foreign big wigs. Better that than Mexican workers and American big wigs.


This is all off topic anyway. If I had to wade through pages of political bullshit every time I wanted opinions of a car to purchase, I'd be fed up quick. If you like "American" cars, then recommend one. Same for foreign cars. Save the debate for another thread.
 
^ trying to picture you wading, I think everyone should drive a prius... would be halarious. Id rice mine out.
 
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