gofer said:

Theres a right way and a wrong way to tune a car running SD, whoever did the above did it the wrong way. Nice and SMOOTH is the key word here, look at my SD VE map after the tune on the dyno as an example.

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That would be me

He was using the WOT Excel sheet that my brother and I created, which caused the "dogs head". Now, I agree there should be blending, but the sheet has worked great.

Is your issue what that way the lack of blending, the fact that there are so many cells above 100%, or something else?

Devilsfutbol17 said:

I had my CEL set to go off at 2* retardation, but my friend that was also running changed his to 3* so I decided to as well.

The only dyno that I could get to is only a two wheel drive one, but apparently there is a AWD dyno that is being built right now that would be 5 mins away from my house. Right now I can only use the ecmlink hp estimator. Hopefully I will be able to use it. I feel like a retard, but I keep forgetting what MBT means for some reason. I know its something something torque.

Oh and for spark plugs, English Racing was running bpr7es plugs at .020 gap on their talon and they were running around 30psi I believe on an E3 16g, so thats what gapped mine to.

The only turbo I could swap to is a spare 14b that i have laying around, I could possibly try that.

As for my VE map, well I did use the SDadjust tool to dial in the idle and cruise and for the other values, they were all from using the WOT tuning spreadsheet but with no blending. I was doing a bunch of pulls the other night and just kept changing it based off the spread sheet and didn't do any smoothing. Thanks for the replies

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I just like to use non projected tip plugs, seems to be the better choice, but it's preference I guess. Anyhow, I never said the turbo was the cause of my knock, some guy on here had his waste gate flapper loose or something and it was rattling at higher RPM's causing knock, there's a thread on here, I just can't find it. maybe that was my cause.

Do what gofer and the rest suggested, start over and see how it goes.

I believe MBT stands for (Minimum timing for Best Torque) Correct me if I'm wrong.

When I switched to e85, I set my global off of 1066cc injectors because that's what the flow data sheet showed that they flowed at. That gave me a gloyybal of -36.9, so I set my global to -37. From that I then reset my fuel trims and began adjusting the deadtime from the gas 330 microseconds at idle until combinedFT was bouncing around +-3%, which put me at 235 microseconds. Then I left that alone and haven't changed them since. From doing that, all my long term fuel trims look great to me, I haven't seen any break over +-2%.

When trying to adjust my VE table, I let it idle and used the SDadjust(combinedFt). Then I also changed the open loop threshold to the values suggested in the wiki, and went on an hour long highway drive that did have a few hill in and I used the SDadjust again.

For adjusting the VE table at WOT, I went out and did third gear pulls from 2k to 7krpms on flat surface and used the spreadsheet from the ecmlink forums. Friday night I went out and did some more pulls one after another, so I didn't spend much time blending when I used the spreadsheet. About half of those pulls I had to let off due to knock though, so I didn't make it to 7k on all of them.

Do you guys have any suggestions for changing my fuel settings? I get really rich between shifting gears too.

I will go a head and completely reset the VE table and use the SD adjust on my hour trip I have to make today. Then ill try and make some pulls and use the spreadsheet again. I'll post up my results. Thank you guys again

snowborder714 said:

Is your issue what that way the lack of blending, the fact that there are so many cells above 100%, or something else?

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Yes. That tuning wizard you created is great, but its only as accurate as the tune and if somethings off so are the values that it suggests. With inflated VE like that its a sign that the injectors global settings are too negative (low). Your FIC 1050cc injectors are flow tested at 43.5psi (3 bar) base fuel pressure, not 37psi base like your profile shows. You can raise your fuel pressure to 43.5psi and leave your globals at -37% OR you can keep fuel pressure at 37psi and change your injector globals to -31%. Doing either one of these will correct the inflated (>100) VE you are getting from the tuning wizard.

The smooth transitions from cell to cell is also important too, the cars going to drive like that VE table looks. If you want nice smooth transitions in and out of boost at part throttle/cruise then you need to take the time to make sure there aren't any significant jumps in VE from cell to cell.

Excel to me is like kryptonite to Superman, therefor I don't go near that tuning wizard. I personally like locking the car in open loop and using the equation...


...to tune my SD VE table. Once you get the VE table tuned right your AFR being displayed on the WB will be the same AFR from the cell being used in your OLMaxOct table in DA.

Please excuse me, I thought it was 1066, but they were flow tested at 1080s. I specifically asked about this topic when I got my injectors and perhaps the information I was provided from the other user was incorrect.
ECMTuning User Support Forums

Here they tell me on gas to do 1080s and 37psi fuel pressure values in for ecmlink and run the 37 psi on my AFPR.

I am going to bump my fuel pressure up to 43.5psi I start retuning the injectors and the VE table as soon as I get off work. I'll report back with the results. Thank you for explaining this to me this out.

Now that I think about that formula you mentioned, at one point I was adjusting the VE table using the stock maxoct tables while I was using the spreadsheet. In the stock maxoct table, it targets 9 AFRs and my wideband doesn't go below 10. So on the stock maxoct table, the new VE suggestions would be way off wouldn't they? I need to not have any values lower than about 10.2 on the maxoct table to make that spreadsheet work with my wideband am I correct?

If your wideband has a lower limit, then I would set the appropriate WOT values in the MaxOct table to something a bit higher. You say yours doesn't go below 10.2, so I'd set the appropriate WOT cells to 10.5.


Good catch, Corey. I hadn't payed much attention to the fuel settings since he was already on to WOT tuning. Shows I need to pay a bit more attention to the small details that I tend to overlook or assume people have done properly.

Alright, I'm lost again. I made the fuel pressure adjustment to 43.5psi and set my global to -35.9%. 330 deadtime at idle seemed to work the best for my combinedFT.

Well I went and did 3 pulls. At first it was looking really good, I picked up only .4* retard. From that pull I ran the spreadsheet and the suggested changes appeared to by minor and looked reasonable, so I did some blending and kept the suggestions. This definitely got my hopes up. But then the next two runs were chalked full with knock so I really don't know what is going on.

I decided after the second pull maybe its rich knock, so i bumped the maxoct up to 11, but that did not help. It targeted 11, but it didn't actually get there, my wideband showed 10s.

I don't know if I need to try to lean it out more or what. I was on the stock 2g timing table the whole time.

Well my alternator went out on my while I was driving home, so my car is currently stuck at my mothers house. I plan on getting another alternator and bringing it home this coming weekend. Next week though I am going to pull the head to replace some gaskets and seals because I was seeing oil on the runners of my exhaust manifold. I'm going to slap on some ARP headstuds and some evo springs and retainers so I can comfortably bump up the boost. Hopefully when I put everything back together I will have made my motor happy and it won't knock any more. I'll post back when I get it back together.

What does your knock sensor look like? Sounds exactly like what happened back in the day when all the "black goo" came out of one of my knock sensors. I say this because when i was still running DSMLink on a PTE35r with 32 psi of boost i was able to run 12.2 - 12.3 air fuels and was able to run any amount of timing that i wanted without picking up knock. Like previously said I don't see how a 16g with e85 and the boost and timing your running is able to knock unless you have a mechanical problem.

blazinglaser_90 said:

What does your knock sensor look like? Sounds exactly like what happened back in the day when all the "black goo" came out of one of my knock sensors. I say this because when i was still running DSMLink on a PTE35r with 32 psi of boost i was able to run 12.2 - 12.3 air fuels and was able to run any amount of timing that i wanted without picking up knock. Like previously said I don't see how a 16g with e85 and the boost and timing your running is able to knock unless you have a mechanical problem.

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That's what I say. I know every car is different but there are sooo many people run similar setups to mine per say or even higher horsepower setups, and they get away with tons of timing and boost. I see knock up top regardless my boost. I'm about to disable the damn knock sensor.


for devilsfutbol, good luck buddy, hope you get it running soon.

Well I made a couple last ditch efforts before I begin pulling the head.

I pulled out my knock sensor to examine it and it still looks fine to me besides a little crack in it. I might try replacing it. For now I just wanted to make sure it was tightened correctly, so I hand tightened it, then gave a little tug via the wrench.

I also pulled the vacuum hose off my MBC and hooked it straight to the stock wastegate actuator on my 16g to eliminate the loud vibrating noise of the dump tube connected to my #1 runner.

I went out and did a few pulls and still got knock. Here are pictures of my knock sensor along with the last pull I did when I was coming back.

Me and you have identical issues bro! Only thing I can think off is still a fautly knock sensor and/or improper base timing. I personally did my base timing, only thing I can think off is that I didn't set it properly. I may have to look into this during the weekend and see if it fixed my issue.

Yeah I just did my timing belt a couple months ago and I set the base timing. Last weekend I also check my timing and it was dead on. If I'm still experiencing issues after I redo the head, a new knock sensor will go in as well as the br8es plugs.

I know you guys don't think its phantom knock, but my downpipe is close to my transfer case and I have occasionally heard the downpiping rattling off the transfer caseat idle. Perhaps that could be causing some false knock readings?

I don't really know how to tell if there are any other noises that are being picked up by the knock sensor under boost because I can't replicate that condition with the car not moving.

Devilsfutbol17 said:

Yeah I just did my timing belt a couple months ago and I set the base timing. Last weekend I also check my timing and it was dead on. If I'm still experiencing issues after I redo the head, a new knock sensor will go in as well as the br8es plugs.

I know you guys don't think its phantom knock, but my downpipe is close to my transfer case and I have occasionally heard the downpiping rattling off the transfer caseat idle. Perhaps that could be causing some false knock readings?

I don't really know how to tell if there are any other noises that are being picked up by the knock sensor under boost because I can't replicate that condition with the car not moving.

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That happened to my buddy, he had to redo his exhaust. I think it's phantom knock.

I'm going to try and see what I can do to get it off the t-case then. How do your plugs look Chicken? I was looking at some images of plugs under certain conditions and I'm going to compare the ones I seen that were exposed to detonation to mine.

Also, is the plastic washer something worth trying? Or is that just a bandaid for real knock?

Devilsfutbol17 said:

I'm going to try and see what I can do to get it off the t-case then. How do your plugs look Chicken? I was looking at some images of plugs under certain conditions and I'm going to compare the ones I seen that were exposed to detonation to mine.

Also, is the plastic washer something worth trying? Or is that just a bandaid for real knock?

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I would say that's more of a bandaid than anything else.

My plugs look perfectly fine, they don't even look dirty, no speckles or nothing. But I get that "knock".

Finally!!!!!!!!!!! I think I have fixed the problem. I was doing some pulls tonight with a buddy, and we determined that my knock is all in in the 3k area. I was able to let off in that area and get back on it after 4k and it would pull hard as hell with no knock to redline. So we started messing in that area and I notice there is a 3* jump in timing at 3.5k. We threw the 1g timing table on and fixed it so there were no jump and ended at 19* with no knock over 1*. It is pulling great!!! No knock whatsoever. Hopefully this is not just a fluke. Here's two logs, one where I let off when I knock and then get back on it to redline, and one where I just do a pull. I also did a full launch to 135mph with NO KNOCK whatsoever. I'm loving life again guys. Thank you all for your support.

So you think the big jump in timing was causing it?

Yeah I most definitely do. All I did was change the table to smooth 1* increments like that last log has, and I am not getting knock any more. The pull was at like 24psi too with up to 19* timing and AFRs somewhat around 11. I still need to do a lot of tuning, but I finally ditched that knock. I drove my car 4 times today and get on it hard maybe 6 times with no CEL, which is set at 1* retard. Logs showed occasional .4* blimps that's it.

Most of those .4 blimps can be just some random vibrations or what not. But I may have to look at my timing table and make sure I don't have any big jumps like you did. Thanks for the observation.

Looking at your logs, you have some airflow tuning to do.

Yes I most definitely have a lot of tuning to do, VE table, AFRs, boost levels, and finally adding timing.

Be very careful on the timing when doing this in the street dude.