Chicken Patty said:

Right off the bat you have the same issue as me that your voltage is low. Car would run fine like that but it's lower than normal and as stated before the more voltage to the pump/injectors the more you got to work with.

The tune itself seems pretty good as far as a/f and timing goes, no knock neither.

What I would say is that gofer is right, using the DA tables for getting your desired a/f and for timing is much better than the sliders. Seems like the change is more effective and spot on. I just got done tuning my buddies GS-T using nothing but DA Tables for fuel/timing and it's much better. You might want to look into that and see how it works out for you.

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honestly, i would love to use the DA tables. but unfortunately i do not have the funds at the moment for v3, i am stuck with v2. :-( i guess i will have to go over the hole system to see where i am losing my power.

but what do you guys think about the tps volts? my readings are wayyyyy above normal.

asg1089 said:

but what do you guys think about the tps volts? my readings are wayyyyy above normal.

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What is it reading? (I'm on my home computer not my tuning laptop)

Regardless, if it's too high the ecu does not know you're idling. Your idle switch will be inactive, or reading 0 instead of 1 like you want it to.

Perform the TPS adjustment, it's very fast and easy. Just log TPS with the key on and cycle the throttle from 0-100% and right click will bring up the TPS adjust feature, which has the recommended values already in place. Actually, after I typed all that out, I'll just link to the Wiki because it's probably explained better:

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3tpsadj


Even though you are on v2, you can download and use the v3 software. It won't provide v3 function, but the software is much improved.

Download here: http://www.ecmtuning.com/downloads.php

asg1089 said:

honestly, i would love to use the DA tables. but unfortunately i do not have the funds at the moment for v3, i am stuck with v2. :-( i guess i will have to go over the hole system to see where i am losing my power.

but what do you guys think about the tps volts? my readings are wayyyyy above normal.

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ahh, didn't notice you were on V2. Oh well, in that case you have no choice but to use the sliders.

As far as TPS voltage, I'm no longer home so I can't view it right now. But if you haven't go ahead and read this, once you do this the reading should be spot on.

dsmlinktpsadjustment [ECMTuning - wiki]

at idle tps volts are reading 0.63v. but when i got WOT, the volts jump to a full 5v. i have done the tps adjust and my throtpos on v2 reads 0-100% perfectly. but i will try again later, maybe my numbers have changed. oh and i am running v3 software, i just am unable to use the DA tables :-(

asg1089 said:

at idle tps volts are reading 0.63v. but when i got WOT, the volts jump to a full 5v. i have done the tps adjust and my throtpos on v2 reads 0-100% perfectly. but i will try again later, maybe my numbers have changed. oh and i am running v3 software, i just am unable to use the DA tables :-(

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I believe that is spot on then.

asg1089 said:

at idle tps volts are reading 0.63v. but when i got WOT, the volts jump to a full 5v. i have done the tps adjust and my throtpos on v2 reads 0-100% perfectly. but i will try again later, maybe my numbers have changed. oh and i am running v3 software, i just am unable to use the DA tables :-(

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TPSVoltage at idle should be adjusted to 0.63v, at WOT 5.00v. Both of these values you said were being displayed when you were logging, so as far as TPS adjustments go, your tuned!

Running v2 isn't necessarily a bad thing, its still link and still a way to tune your car, and back in the day it was the best thing out there. Now that v3 has hit the streets of course its "new and improved" but using v2 you can still get a great tune. If you don't have the money now, and you want v3, save up for a few months and then drop the ball when the time is right.

a buddy of mine still uses V2, he's making as much power as peeps with V3. It's a stock 7 bolt setup with a EVO III 16G, I'm sure at a higher HP level maybe the V3 and it's features will pull ahead, but V2 is still the way to go other than V3 if you ask me.

gofer said:

TPSVoltage at idle should be adjusted to 0.63v, at WOT 5.00v. Both of these values you said were being displayed when you were logging, so as far as TPS adjustments go, your tuned!

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phew, i guess i misread a comment earlier. it said that tps volts should be near .97ish at WOT. hmm well at least that problem is solved, now i guess i have to hunt down what is sucking my alternator volts. thanks again guys you really saved me on this one!

asg1089 said:

phew, i guess i misread a comment earlier. it said that tps volts should be near .97ish at WOT. hmm well at least that problem is solved, now i guess i have to hunt down what is sucking my alternator volts. thanks again guys you really saved me on this one!

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Yeah must've misread it, def. you looking for 5.00v at WOT. Keep us posted bro.

dsmmatt28 said:

Im running 12.5-12.8 20* peak timing no knock.33psi hx40

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I know this is an older thread, but that seems awfully lean. Not that I'm doubting you, I'm just concerned because I just made the switch yesterday and I'm in the 11.5 to 11.8:1 range at WOT with 16* timing at the logger. Was looking to go 18* timing for some safety, but should I consider 12.0:1 ratio at 25psi with a E3-16g? Also, I'm getting some popping sounds when I let off the gas after making a run - what afr is good for VAC at cruise. I am around 14.7:1 or 15:1.

I have 1150 injectors FIC set at 950s stock 1g fuel pressure with a 255lph pump. Using Ds-map for tuning. I can post some logs if anyone is interested in helping me tune my cruise AFR at least. BTW, this stuff is GREAT, but MPG is definitely much lower, .

Thanks in advance.

BTW I added my first run logs just for an idea. "2" is a cruise highway log in 4th gear - best I could do in this area. "3" is a 3rd gear pull.

eclipsegst1990 said:

I know this is an older thread, but that seems awfully lean. Not that I'm doubting you, I'm just concerned because I just made the switch yesterday and I'm in the 11.5 to 11.8:1 range at WOT with 16* timing at the logger. Was looking to go 18* timing for some safety, but should I consider 12.0:1 ratio at 25psi with a E3-16g? Also, I'm getting some popping sounds when I let off the gas after making a run - what afr is good for VAC at cruise. I am around 14.7:1 or 15:1.

I have 1150 injectors FIC set at 950s stock 1g fuel pressure with a 255lph pump. Using Ds-map for tuning. I can post some logs if anyone is interested in helping me tune my cruise AFR at least. BTW, this stuff is GREAT, but MPG is definitely much lower, .

Thanks in advance.

BTW I added my first run logs just for an idea. "2" is a cruise highway log in 4th gear - best I could do in this area. "3" is a 3rd gear pull.

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I run my car at 12.7 WOT and it pull great, seems to be the sweet spot for my car. I'm at 23 psi on a 50 trim, 16* peak timing.

Also, 14.7-15.1 sounds just right for cruise conditions.

Glad I'm on the right track. I will lean it out a little and see how it pulls. Although, my EGts are a little hot I think. Maybe my timing is too retarded which could get things cooking. Thanks for the reply.

A 15.5:1 wouldnt hurt cruise conditions to save that little extra bit of E85, you need all the MPG's you can get! How do you plan on changing your idle/cruise AFR's?

AFR's and timing can get a bit tricky on E85 since its tuned differently than a car on pump gas. To keep it conservative (reliable) tune for a 12.3~12.5:1 WOT AFR and timing NO LOWER than 16-17* advance. Having the timing too retarded, like you mentioned, will increase CC temps/EGT's because the slower and colder burn of the Ethanol.

gofer said:

A 15.5:1 wouldnt hurt cruise conditions to save that little extra bit of E85, you need all the MPG's you can get! How do you plan on changing your idle/cruise AFR's?

AFR's and timing can get a bit tricky on E85 since its tuned differently than a car on pump gas. To keep it conservative (reliable) tune for a 12.3~12.5:1 WOT AFR and timing NO LOWER than 16-17* advance. Having the timing too retarded, like you mentioned, will increase CC temps/EGT's because the slower and colder burn of the Ethanol.

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Wow, 12.3:1 and 12.5:1 is a little scary for me because that would kill me with pump gas. I'll give it a try and ease into it. I've heard people running 21* or more with E85. Should I have 21* at the full boost range and then increase it a little before and a little after when boost starts to fall off. My boost hits full around 3500 @25psi. I was also thinking of raising the boost a little to lean the mixture out to the 12:1 range - remember I'm on a E3-16g and I think it's a hair dryer over 30lbs.

Idle/cruise afr is easily adjusted in ds-map. Just gonna lean it out a little in the VAC ranges off boost. However, I'm getting popping when I let off the throttle after a run. I have to remedy that! I'm hoping that's not pre-ignition - back firing almost. When I give it a little gas, it goes away. Maybe too lean when the throttle plate slams shut. Never heard my car pop before - making me concerned.

Ultimately, I'd like to run 30lbs of boost, but I think 25 is the limit with this turbo. I'll keep an eye on my IAT and maybe throw some water injection to cool the intake charge at that boost level.

I keep my a/f around 12-12.3; I have gone much leaner but I'm running 27-28 psi so I'd rather be on the safer side.

As for the timing, just gradually add some across the board and see how the car feels...just don't go too crazy cause e85 doesn't knock until it's too late

As for the boost, when i first switched to e85 back in 2009, I had a big 16g and I had it cranked up to spike to 30 psi and then it would fall down to 22 ish by redline and it felt great! If you have a decent intercooler, it should be able to cool the charge down.

Street tuning peak timing is tricky unless you've got a good BUTT dyno, basically you make it safe (17-18*) and then wait until you ACTUALLY get your car on a dyno. My car, tuned for 12.1:1 AFR's @ 30psi, stopped making power after 17* peak timing. We kicked it to 20* and I think we saw a gain of 5hp and 5tq which is nothing for that much more timing advance. My cars a DD and want it to remain a DD and not a jackstand queen, reason why we kicked it down to 17* and left it.

Every car is different but the tuning concept is the same. There is a sweet spot in timing advance on E85, keep advancing it and you'll see 20-30hp from 2* advance but once you're in that sweet spot and you keep advancing it you'll start melting shit and not make anymore power.

gofer said:

Street tuning peak timing is tricky unless you've got a good BUTT dyno

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ECMlink's HP calculator has good repeatability, which enables decent back-to-back comparisons assuming the reduction of external factors as much as possible. I agree though, if you're looking for more than the easy, large chunks of power, a dyno is a better place to explore that territory.

gofer said:

make it safe (17-18*) and then..

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Gofer shows a good example of why it's important to heed advice from experienced tuners, but ultimately you must tune your own car based on the totality of all factors, which are quite extensive, since you'll be entirely responsible for the consequences.

I'm still running stock timing on mine, can't wait to boost leak test and rewire my fuel pump.

12.7 seems to be the sweet spot on my car, runs the best. I don't have an EGT gauge so i wouldn't know if it's exactly safe, but the car does feel the best at it.

Chicken Patty said:

I'm still running stock timing on mine, can't wait to boost leak test and rewire my fuel pump.

12.7 seems to be the sweet spot on my car, runs the best. I don't have an EGT gauge so i wouldn't know if it's exactly safe, but the car does feel the best at it.

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Be careful, my EGTs go up pretty quick with no knock even on the stock map. I double checked my timing and it is right at 5* base with BPR7ES or BR7ES I don't remember which. EGT gauges are a little cheaper now, wouldn't hurt to have one with E85.

Those with EGT gauges, where are your WOT temps? Mine is usually 1500 to 1570. I hit 1630 or so and got off it quick and raised advance timing which cooled it down at WOT which is where I'm at now.

eclipsegst1990 said:

Be careful, my EGTs go up pretty quick with no knock even on the stock map. I double checked my timing and it is right at 5* base with BPR7ES or BR7ES I don't remember which. EGT gauges are a little cheaper now, wouldn't hurt to have one with E85.

Those with EGT gauges, where are your WOT temps? Mine is usually 1500 to 1570. I hit 1630 or so and got off it quick and raised advance timing which cooled it down at WOT which is where I'm at now.

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yep, that's one of the next things on my list.

Not enough timing melts shit too ChickenPatty, you might make some changes to your timing advance.

gofer said:

Not enough timing melts shit too ChickenPatty, you might make some changes to your timing advance.

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Yep, so I've been reading lately. I'm not beating on the car right now. Still need to boost leak test and rewire pump before I do some more tuning. But Timing advance is definitely something I'm going to be tweaking this time around. Hopefully I can get an EGT gauge shortly too, my manifold has the tap for the probe already.

Agreed. I'm starting to realize that E85 may be a little too forgiving since it doesn't have any real "early" warning signs or a problem until it is too late - referring to knock. As someone said, once you knock on it, it may be too late. I think the only warning you have is EGT and I think once you pass the 1650F mark you'll knock and melt. I have to find that timing sweet spot like everyone else.

eclipsegst1990 said:

Agreed. I'm starting to realize that E85 may be a little too forgiving since it doesn't have any real "early" warning signs or a problem until it is too late - referring to knock. As someone said, once you knock on it, it may be too late. I think the only warning you have is EGT and I think once you pass the 1650F mark you'll knock and melt. I have to find that timing sweet spot like everyone else.

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Not true at all. If you go crazy yes, but e85 is very easy too tune on due to being so forgiving. Your early warning signs are loss of power or small gains. Run safe AFR, dont go crazy on timing and turn the boost too no tomorrow and you will be fine.

On a side not I made over 20whp and tq going from 17*-22* timing on my tune back when my car was runnign. Night and day difference.

I haven't done any ignition timing tweaking on my DSM, but I did on my buddies and let me tell you. When you find that sweet spot for timing you can tell. The car pulled sooo much better and everything else just lined up easier. I'm dying to tweak my timing but as I previously stated, waiting on a few things to get done so I can do it right.