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The 16g Drag Race Discussion Thread

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Any updates ? hopeing to get my FWD on 93 and meth in the low 11's soon.........
 
I envy you guys for pushing these little turbos to the limits. I just hope one day my car can be at the level of some of you guys cars are. I dropped my car off for tuning this week hoping to have it back by the weekend. Should be a pretty strong e3 street car
 
what should happen if you change your e85 for pure methanol in a 16g drag setup?
will the exhaust housing will stagnate for being small? methanol needs more than 50% more fuel compared with e85 ..
 
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what should happen if you change your e85 for pure methanol in a 16g drag setup?
will the exhaust housing will stagnate for being small? methanol needs more than 50% more fuel compared with e85 ..

I picked up a bit of mph by adding methanol to E85 on an Evo3 16g setup with a bit of nitrous. Here's the results:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/380800-dsmpartout-1g-chemistry-night-island-dragway.html

Im planning to start out at a half/half mixture of E85 and Methanol this year now that I have upgraded injectors to 1650cc and should have enough supply. goal is to get up to 100% meth and then experiment with removing the intercooler. It definitely makes more power than E85 even with the "small" 7cm exhaust housing.
 
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Little update on my car. I added 2 nice mods to my car. Removed the FP2 cams and installed a set of Kelford 272's. Removed the EVO3/RVR intake manifold and installed the new version of FFtec Motorsports SMIM. I had it on the dyno last Saturday, then hit the track last Sunday.

I'm very happy with the new SMIM from Full Function. It's made for the 2G head, uses large round runners where it meets the plenum, large volume plenum, and the runners have a continuous taper from the plenum to the head. The throttle body plate is offset to the top of the plenum so the UICP fits with a slight adjustment. I didn't need to fab a new UICP, all I did was loosen the couplers and readjust the angles a little and it fit easily. The reason I'm so happy with it is because it made some nice gains in top end power on the dyno. I started the dyno pulls at 4500rpm since my wastegate tends to spike boost over 38psi at low rpm on the dyno, and it scares me a little. So the dyno chart compares the best pulls I did last January and the best pull I did with the new cams and smim. 438 AWHP on a Mustang dyno, 15hp peak gains, 18hp gains at 7k rpm, 26hp gain at 7500rpm. I really like how the power stays up at high rpm despite boost dropping off.

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Here's a quick pic of the SMIM I'm using;
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I did 3 runs at the track. The first 2 were practice to make sure my driving was good since I haven't raced since last January . I ran 11.0 @125 with 1.74 60' time and 10.8 @127 with 1.6 60' time. I was launching it slightly soft since these were test runs. I normally get 1.5x 60' times since my car is light and has slicks, twin disc clutch and excellent launch control mods.

I stopped the third run after getting a terrible misfire just after shifting into 3rd gear. It was a weird run, the launch was great, it pulled hard through second gear, then as soon as I hit 3rd gear it misfired on 2 cylinders so bad I thought I blew the engine. I shut it down and coasted to the turn around lane. It drove fine on the way back to the pits. I checked the logs and all it showed was that the AF ratio was slightly richer and the boost was 10psi higher than normal. That was odd since I'm running a blocked off wastegate and max boost all the time, so getting an extra 10psi out of nowhere is not right. Then I checked the plugs and remembered that I hadn't changed them since last winter, so I borrowed a fresh set from a friend, gapped them and dropped them in. The track was shutting down by then and I didn't want to risk hurting the car if something was already going bad, so I packed up and drove home. It drove great all the way home. Go figure. I even did a WOT pull through 2nd and 3rd gear on the freeway on-ramp after topping off the tank with E85 in Galt and it pulled great! No sign of problems all the way home. I'm still not 100% sure what went wrong at the track. It's possible the MAP sensor had a voltage spike and told the ecu that boost was higher, so the ecu added more fuel which caused massive rich misfire. If it was just the plugs then I'm going to bring a spare set to the track and swap them in each time.
 
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Pretty killer power on the "heart break dyno" :hellyeah:

When you installed the kelfords did you install them straight up? I was thinking a decrease in overlap would help with all the back pressure.
 
Pretty killer power on the "heart break dyno" :hellyeah:

When you installed the kelfords did you install them straight up? I was thinking a decrease in overlap would help with all the back pressure.

Thanks! I'm still surprised at the power I'm getting out of this little turbo.

I'm constantly thinking about adjusting the cam gears. They're set at zero right now. I tried adjusting the gears a few degrees both ways but the idle suffered and low end power dropped off. I know that large amounts of overlap is bad when there's high exhaust backpressure, but it's not so bad at high rpm. And I am shooting for the best high rpm power I can get.
 
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Little update on my car. I added 2 nice mods to my car. Removed the FP2 cams and installed a set of Kelford 272's. Removed the EVO3/RVR intake manifold and installed the new version of FFtec Motorsports SMIM. I had it on the dyno last Saturday, then hit the track last Sunday.

I'm very happy with the new SMIM from Full Function. It's made for the 2G head, uses large round runners where it meets the plenum, large volume plenum, and the runners have a continuous taper from the plenum to the head. The throttle body plate is offset to the top of the plenum so the UICP fits with a slight adjustment. I didn't need to fab a new UICP, all I did was loosen the couplers and readjust the angles a little and it fit easily. The reason I'm so happy with it is because it made some nice gains in top end power on the dyno. I started the dyno pulls at 4500rpm since my wastegate tends to spike boost over 38psi at low rpm on the dyno, and it scares me a little. So the dyno chart compares the best pulls I did last January and the best pull I did with the new cams and smim. 438 AWHP on a Mustang dyno, 15hp peak gains, 18hp gains at 7k rpm, 26hp gain at 7500rpm. I really like how the power stays up at high rpm despite boost dropping off.

Awesome job man!

438AWHP on a mustang dyno is just ridiculous! Curt Brown's 499AWHP record was on a dynojet, right?

I had a few questions for you, but understand if they cannot be answered.

What kind of gas did you use when you hit the dyno, and the track? What does the boost look like when your making that dyno run at after 4500rpm? What boost are you running at the track? By the way, I was wondering if this is on the valve spring wastegate actuator that you made, and down-flow outlet? What is the weight of the car?

It is just crazy that your horsepower stays so flat and the torque curve barely drops. Your still making 420 horsepower and 270ft-lb of torque at 8,250RPM! This is, by far, the best 16g dyno chart I have seen so far.

At this level, would a turbine wheel clip helps things out? It is old technology, and reduces response, but it could help with keep the torque up.

Keep us updated! Great Work!
 
Awesome job man!

438AWHP on a mustang dyno is just ridiculous! Curt Brown's 499AWHP record was on a dynojet, right?

I had a few questions for you, but understand if they cannot be answered.

What kind of gas did you use when you hit the dyno, and the track? What does the boost look like when your making that dyno run at after 4500rpm? What boost are you running at the track? By the way, I was wondering if this is on the valve spring wastegate actuator that you made, and down-flow outlet? What is the weight of the car?

It is just crazy that your horsepower stays so flat and the torque curve barely drops. Your still making 420 horsepower and 270ft-lb of torque at 8,250RPM! This is, by far, the best 16g dyno chart I have seen so far.

At this level, would a turbine wheel clip helps things out? It is old technology, and reduces response, but it could help with keep the torque up.

Keep us updated! Great Work!

I'm logging with a Palm m515, so there's no elg file to share. sorry :cry:

I'm glad to share info, just ask!
I'm using E85 all the time. I think I filled this tank at the Chevron station in Fremont. That's the place right next to the Fremont Police Station! :D

Boost falls like a rock after 5500rpm on the dyno where it peaks at 37psi. The logs show 29psi at 6500rpm and 23psi at 7500rpm. I'm still using the downflow outlet and valvespring wastegate mod, so I'm running as much boost as it'll hold. Oddly, boost stays nearly level from 7500rpm and up, it doesn't fall off hardly at all at high rpm.

I tried to weigh the car when I was at the track, but the scale was broken. I estimate it weighs approx 2800 with me in it. I haven't taken out much weight since I claimed the 14b record 2 years ago so it should be close.

Yeah, like I said I'm very happy with the gains in top end power! The big cams and new SMIM were the key to the new gains. I can't wait to take it out and really push it! Think about it this way; I made around 430 AWHP on a Mustang dyno at 23psi (at 7500 rpm on the dyno chart) on a 16g that I bought used for $200.

I forgot about the option of clipping the turbine wheel. I'm not sure if it helps or not at this level. I have to think about it.
 
I'm logging with a Palm m515, so there's no elg file to share. sorry :cry:

I'm glad to share info, just ask!
I'm using E85 all the time. I think I filled this tank at the Chevron station in Fremont. That's the place right next to the Fremont Police Station! :D

Boost falls like a rock after 5500rpm on the dyno where it peaks at 37psi. The logs show 29psi at 6500rpm and 23psi at 7500rpm. I'm still using the downflow outlet and valvespring wastegate mod, so I'm running as much boost as it'll hold. Oddly, boost stays nearly level from 7500rpm and up, it doesn't fall off hardly at all at high rpm.

I tried to weigh the car when I was at the track, but the scale was broken. I estimate it weighs approx 2800 with me in it. I haven't taken out much weight since I claimed the 14b record 2 years ago so it should be close.

Yeah, like I said I'm very happy with the gains in top end power! The big cams and new SMIM were the key to the new gains. I can't wait to take it out and really push it! Think about it this way; I made around 430 AWHP on a Mustang dyno at 23psi (at 7500 rpm on the dyno chart) on a 16g that I bought used for $200.

I forgot about the option of clipping the turbine wheel. I'm not sure if it helps or not at this level. I have to think about it.

Thanks, I will definitely take you up on that offer and ask as many questions as I can think of. :)

37psi makes for a nice torque hit I bet! I am surprised as well that you were able to hold 23psi to redline with the mods your running. That is definitely not what I expected. How many miles have you put on the 16g sense you started running it this hard, and where do you feed it oil from?

By the way, what kind of timing are you running? What kind of ideas are you throwing around to push this setup even more?

It is hard to smog around here, is this a street car? And, what track do you usually go to?

I always get carried away with this question asking thing...:D
 
Oh I dunno....I don't think people give the 16g all the credit it deserves. :D

After I did some creative porting inspired by luke english, and a fresh rebuild with my "special" actuator this is what my boost to RPM ratio looks like.

Oddly enough I make less boost initially than I did prior to porting. I would spike to 33-35 and settle in the 22ish by redline. Now I can hold 26+ to redline. Even to almost 8k! Boost actually creeps up instead of falling off as it did. Part of this is due to less WG pressure. I dropped 2 of my added springs when I did the rebuild. I think I can get the initial spike higher with a little actuator work.

I'm no record breaker, but I did trap 119 in a full weight (including ac and heavy stereo system) all option 93 talon. Since these runs I have tuned out the knock with some very cold plugs and less timing.

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Thanks, I will definitely take you up on that offer and ask as many questions as I can think of. :)

37psi makes for a nice torque hit I bet! I am surprised as well that you were able to hold 23psi to redline with the mods your running. That is definitely not what I expected. How many miles have you put on the 16g sense you started running it this hard, and where do you feed it oil from?

By the way, what kind of timing are you running? What kind of ideas are you throwing around to push this setup even more?

It is hard to smog around here, is this a street car? And, what track do you usually go to?

I always get carried away with this question asking thing...:D

Good questions! I have around 5k miles on this turbo, plus the miles the previous owner put on it. Total miles are unknown. It had a little shaft play when I got it, but it hasn't gotten any worse so there's no reason to worry yet. I'm oiling it from the filter housing with a typical -3AN line, no restrictor. No coolant lines either. I just run the fans and make sure the engine is cool before I shut down.

Timing changes quickly with rpm and boost, it's around 5* at 5500rpm and 18* at 8k rpm. I usually go to Sacramento Raceway just because I can race there on weekends. I go to Infineon if I can get off work early on Wednesdays, which is rare.
 
I went to the track last Sunday and had some good runs. The new mods are working well! Track prep was good too! I got a new best time on the 16G turbo. 10.48 @ 129.89 with my best 60' by far. The launch was so hard the rear suspension hit the bumpstops, and the car is already raised in the back with 375 pound springs!

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YouTube - ‪20110612100505.mpg‬‏
 
Just thought I would post up on this thread. I previously had a green '93 tsi awd 5 speed that i traded for an auto '93. Car is way cleaner than my previous car, not to mention it has 30k less miles! He traded me straight across. I couldn't believe it when he said it is 100% stock!
Drove the car and fell in love with it, idk why. I was always one of those guys who would always dog on auto's, but they're actually pretty fun. To make a long story short, I ended up pulling out the debit card and going crazy!

B16g
Innovate lc1 wideband
Autometer boost gauge
Punishment FMIC
Fic 1050's
Wally 255
QTP Cutout
3" DP
Stm re-wire kit
BC 272's
E-85 :hellyeah: (Obviously not a part, LOL)
Still have to order the valve springs/retainers, MLS HG, ARP head studs, atmosphere dump o2 housing as well as the 2gmaf and dsmlinkv3.
The car is my DD, the goal is to get as deep into the 11's as possible. Will be getting it tuned at Wingz Perfomance. :thumb:
 
Wow just read this entire thread! There's alot of really good information and different approach plans on here. I hope to possibly make a trip to the track with my car this season. I'm running a evo lll mani/16g turbo with the ported housing and clipped fins. Custom 3" down pipe/test pipe made by holland performance. Modified hks carbon ti catback. F.I.C 1650's. Ported & polished,stacked 1g head,6 bolt motor with 2g pistons & kiggley auto trans plate in my 96 gsx with ECM link. I'm curious to see how this setup will perform I need to get it to a dyno so that I can get it properly tuned on e85 this is more of a toy than DD. I've got a new fuel pump in route and am debating on getting in the waiting line for the mangus cast mani the dyno charts look so nasty on that thing!
 
Quick update; I went to the track last Sunday and got 2 runs. The first run was a test to see how the tune looked. I ran 10.9 @124mph with a 1.53 60' time. I missed 4th.

The second run started great, another 1.53 60' time, the 330' time was .06 quicker, but as soon as I hit 3rd gear the car sputtered and misfired. It did the same thing last time out and the logs show the same odd trend. The AF ratio gets a little richer than normal and the boost goes up a few psi higher than normal. I'm not sure where the extra boost is coming from since my wastegate is just about welded shut anyway. I have to try a few things and see what happens.
 
Quick update; I went to the track last Sunday and got 2 runs. The first run was a test to see how the tune looked. I ran 10.9 @124mph with a 1.53 60' time. I missed 4th.

The second run started great, another 1.53 60' time, the 330' time was .06 quicker, but as soon as I hit 3rd gear the car sputtered and misfired. It did the same thing last time out and the logs show the same odd trend. The AF ratio gets a little richer than normal and the boost goes up a few psi higher than normal. I'm not sure where the extra boost is coming from since my wastegate is just about welded shut anyway. I have to try a few things and see what happens.


Ah must feel nice to miss a shift and still hit 10s! What did you end up doing with your WG? Last time a read it still had a valve spring on it?
 
Ah must feel nice to miss a shift and still hit 10s! What did you end up doing with your WG? Last time a read it still had a valve spring on it?

Haha, yeah I know...
I had a bad run and only hit 10.9!
I'm still using the same 200 pound wastegate spring. I changed the NLTS code to spool the turbo quicker between shifts and it seems to work too good. I'm pretty sure I'm getting compressor surge just after the 2>3 shift. I'm not 100% sure how to fix it since there's no SP cover for the 16G. A friend offered a suggestion a couple months ago but I didn't hear him until now.
 
Hey guys I just thought I'd just post on here, I've always noticed there was a 14b drag discussion but I just recently upgraded to a 16g and then just now stumbled onto this thread. I'm a 20 year old student and I've read some of your posts about your set ups and it makes me want to put some serious time in to my car. Right now i'm trying to get my car tuned as I teach myself to use my new dsmlink.

so far my mods include:
aftermarket intake
punishment racing FMIC
crushed 1g BOV
GM MAFT
264/272 cams
3g lifters
SBR exhaust manifold
ported 2g o2 housing
3 inch turbo back with test pipe and magnaflow
16g
255 wally
dsmlink v2.5

In the mail i have a plx wideband with gauge and an aeromotive afpr. I'm considering picking up a set of 560cc injectors tomorrow but i'm thinking i should go bigger.

My car is a FWD and i'm wondering what it could run in the 1/4 mile. Most of it I guess depends on what I can tune it to but idk how far I want to push my car. I bought it with 95k on it and now it has 115k.

I can't drive the car until i pass emissions because my tabs are expired, I just don't know if i'll be able to tune it to pass.
 
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i really want to get my evo3 16g gst into the 11.8 max i would be happy but atleast if i can get into 12.5 ill be happy, but hmm i wonder how long itll take me, just need good motor and trans, just never know which company to go to, but ya money holds me back aaaa!!! LOL congrats on all yall hitting those low times,
 
Haha, yeah I know...
I had a bad run and only hit 10.9!
I'm still using the same 200 pound wastegate spring. I changed the NLTS code to spool the turbo quicker between shifts and it seems to work too good. I'm pretty sure I'm getting compressor surge just after the 2>3 shift. I'm not 100% sure how to fix it since there's no SP cover for the 16G. A friend offered a suggestion a couple months ago but I didn't hear him until now.

when u were o the dyno did you ever witness the wg opening
at all w your setup?

also...have u seen this?
www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-syst...-inlet-w-counter-swirl-worth-10-hp-gains.html

if you rotate the air the same direction as the comp it has been proven to eliminate surge in some cases... just a thought.
 
when u were o the dyno did you ever witness the wg opening
at all w your setup?

also...have u seen this?
www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-syst...-inlet-w-counter-swirl-worth-10-hp-gains.html

if you rotate the air the same direction as the comp it has been proven to eliminate surge in some cases... just a thought.

Thanks for the link, that's an interesting idea. I'm using an inlet with a 7* taper right now which seemed to be close to ideal from what I've read. I may try other intakes and see what happens.
 
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