They're hatting because they're ignorant... Most people don't have a clue when talking about DSM's... and anyways, if they can't recognize a good platform they're not worth the hassle... I have nothing against EVO's, STI's, 3kGT's, Skylines you name it, if it's a good platform it's a good platform, and I'd be an ignorant fool to say otherwise. I just personally prefer the DSM's, because you can buy them for cheap and they have lot's of ~cheap aftermarkets.

Because this type of vehicle targets the youth and one of two things happen at that point:
1: They cant afford one
2: They pay low price for one thats beaten to hell and dont have the knowledge to repair.

Simple as that.

Imo, the reason why they don't like dsm's is because of reliability, I think there are more modified dsm's on the street then most other makes. With any car really, once you start modifying a car past the oem spec, things start to break. With dsms, we can get our cars pretty damn fast and reliable with fairly cheap basic bolt-ons and a tune. But other makes, they would have to spend way more to get it as fast and reliable.

I've been to a couple nissan and honda meets. A-lot of the modification's I seen are intakes and exhaust (which still keeps the car reliable), More cosmetic then engine modifications really. But when I go to a DSM meet, most of them have done a long list of modifications to the engine.

If you take 50 dsm cars, 50 honda cars, and 50 nissan cars. Imo, theres gonna be more modded DSM cars then the others. So the more modded cars that group has the less reliable the cars gonna be due to modifications.

Others might think differently about what i wrote. but these are my opinions.

People generally hate because they seemed to be the most "Riced" Car from Fast and furious. Another thing is a lot of people turn them into ricers with those dumb body kits, but haters will hate so let them when their 6 cars behind you

Trav83 said:

Where do you think I got that quote from

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haha thats what i thought

People talking about jealousy are way off base. If these cars were desirable, 1Gs wouldn't be worthless these days.

I think the issue stems from the reliability reputation, as well as the demographic of owners. We have a lot of young owners who can't afford to put the cars together properly, but are still really cocky because its the first turbo car they can afford.

There's also the F&F movies, the general stigma about imports from the domestic crowd, and other negative perceptions of the cars.

I still believe there's a back lash among DSM tuners mostly due because let's face it, these machines are day old bread. It's all about the EVO's and STi's, let's face it most of the tuning as far as DSM's are concerned is positively archaeic. It's still a wonderful platform, and there's still a ton of people out there that tune these things. But these things had a hell of a reputation back in the day, and their days have come and gone. But I'll at least still be here happily tuning.

And I know people are gonna chime in on AE86's and S13's but those have modern drifting popularity, once the new import fad comes along they'll be back in the same boat. Seriously, remember when import drag racing was the biggest thing? Thats when the DSM was king.

FromFordtoDSM said:

according to the nismo kids "dsm's are the cheap way to fast car" theyre just mad they cant make 300 wheel with their z's

Dont even get me started on the domestics hahaha

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Which Z you talking about???.....my second car is 300ztt. I spent 2g and i run with Z06 and Vipers. no upgraded turbo and all original parts.

Cause we don't have vtec

same here.. i recently left the dsm for a brief moment and jumped on a GTI 1.8T.. they talk about "crankwalk" and all this junk, all the time about 4g63s..

whereas the 1.8T is used all over us and europe in thousands of different cars, so of course there is more hate..

Look at the ratio from 1.8s to 4gs its like 10:1 and we still have more 4gs pushing the limits passed them by like 5:1.. for every 5, 11 to 10 sec 4g63 theres is possibley 1, 1.8 hitting that mark..

they are all about steez and stance!

Bud92gsx said:

DSM's are sports cars..Just check your insurance to double check that,..

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Huh?!? I pay $75/month for mine.

I think it's because people don't know them and hear all the BS about realibility and crank walk on the internet. My car has never been bad to me but I maintain it really well.

Blurred Talon said:

Huh?!? I pay $75/month for mine.

I think it's because people don't know them and hear all the BS about realibility and crank walk on the internet. My car has never been bad to me but I maintain it really well.

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I pay $225 for mine, just liability.

sag1441 said:

because most dsm tuners are cheap hackjobs with piece of shit cars. the wrx will be the next dsm now that theyre becoming cheaper and cheaper. you dont hear about evo problems because the oldest evo is still 4 years newer than the newest dsm, the build quality out of illinois was crap, and broke ratards cant afford them yet.

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The wrx will never become the next dsm. Too costly to make fast. You really don't see a lot of wrx owners running high boost on stock internals. That is the beauty of the Dsm it was built stout from the factory. I own an 05 wrx anything over 300 whp and kiss second gear goodbye. They are also super expensive to modify and I am talking about of 400 whp. My buddies 03 evo with exhaust, cams, boost controller, fuel pump, and injectors tuned by english on a stock turbo hit 430 whp. You don't see that out of a Subaru.

Maybe couse they old and body looks like crap but these are mostly the 1.8s and 420a u see on the road. I dont think real car guys hate on dsm. Just the boys with the shiny rims and big speakers. I have had people that build bad ass v8s for a living tell me them dsm's are fast . Yeah in the wrong hands they will be a pain. But we sure drop jaws when guys see 20 dsm's cruising. I got a 20 year old car that i love so let the haters hate . Oh and evos do break.

Most of the time they dont even know anything about dsm's and talk crap because of "what they heard".

dsmrollerz90 said:

I pay $225 for mine, just liability.

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A month?!?!

Another thing is most V8 guys have no respect for 4 bangers. They think the only thing worth modifing is a V8 and they'll never respect a 4 cyl no matter what . You could post huge numbers on the dyno and blow them away in the quarter mile and they would say you either spent way too much money(they automaticaly assume you spent a lot of money) on it to make it go that fast or its on the verge of blowing up.

I can't believe you guys are paying that much in insurance! There's no way. I seriously pay something like $20 a month, just liability, for my turbo Laser. And I'm in one of the worst brackets too- young & male.

Maybe because no one's ever heard of a Laser

And the only reason people don't like DSMs is because they break the rules. They can be cheap, fast, and reliable all at the same time.

I pay $35 a month for mine and I'm 30 with a clean record. Anyway I find that most people who sink a lot of money into their ride think they have the best platform and talk trash about the others. Seriously though, you can buy the car and run 11 seconds for less than 4k... maybe less than 2k if you are frugal and buy used parts. Why wouldn't the other guys hate that? Just for example: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/313188-11-0-124-evo-iii-16g-stock-automatic-no-intercooler.html

I've thought about selling my car tons of times for something new, but to get another car to the level of this one I would be looking at $10k+ not counting the cost of the car. As for the girl car comments... I hate hate hate that. I would love to have a Mini or a Miata for the twistys. Our cars are fast and the adrenaline rush is awesome but those girl cars are just so damn fun when not going in a straight line. I miss my Focus ZX3 with H&R springs, it was literally like driving a go cart, totally a girl car but the driving experience was awesome.

They hate cause they ain't got it.

forcdndukshun said:

The wrx will never become the next dsm. Too costly to make fast. You really don't see a lot of wrx owners running high boost on stock internals. That is the beauty of the Dsm it was built stout from the factory. I own an 05 wrx anything over 300 whp and kiss second gear goodbye. They are also super expensive to modify and I am talking about of 400 whp. My buddies 03 evo with exhaust, cams, boost controller, fuel pump, and injectors tuned by english on a stock turbo hit 430 whp. You don't see that out of a Subaru.

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Just fyi, the stock subaru EJ can handle 25psi boost with stock internals, the ej is also extremely stout built. just sayin.

ANY car is expensive to make fast RELIABLY

Buurma said:

Just fyi, the stock subaru EJ can handle 25psi boost with stock internals, the ej is also extremely stout built. just sayin.

ANY car is expensive to make fast RELIABLY

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I agree with you that to be fast it takes money. You will agree with me boost isn't boost. 25lbs on a 16g is a lot different than 25lbs on a hx 40. I guess I just haven't seen as many high power subaru's as I have high hp dsm's. I didn't think the ej came stock with forged internals.

I've always thought that the most bang for my buck was my dsm. I can say though the subaru has never been on a flatbed. The dsm did max out my aaa tows in one year.

dsmrollerz90 said:

I pay $225 for mine, just liability.

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Dear god.
Can I ask why?

I know when I use to live in Toronto my insurance was higher because I was in a sketchy part of town (140/month).

Kreez said:

I can't believe you guys are paying that much in insurance! There's no way. I seriously pay something like $20 a month, just liability, for my turbo Laser. And I'm in one of the worst brackets too- young & male.

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That's cheap.

I'm 27, clean record and live on an Island in the middle of the North Atlantic. If I was in the sticks on said Island my insurance would be cheaper.

IIRC, my old man pays less then $100 a month for two vehicles and a Quad. Makes me want to get out of the city.

Most of the people in my town own hondas and v8's so it's kinda the odd man out. A few of the honda guys use to own a DSM but being idiots they just put a bigger turbo a stock DSM and just turned up the boost and call them unreliable because they ended up blowing the motor. So most hate I get is from the fact that I'm not driving a honda or a Muscle car. Also that my car is unreliable. Honestly my DSM is never down unless it is my fault or I'm modifying something. But most of them just run their mouths and not their cars. Like once this guy was hating and I told him "run your car, not your mouth" but he didn't want to run because I have a turbo he was scared . Honda guys are probably just hating cause our cars have more hp stock than their "modifed" honda

necrotopsy said:

it probably doesnt have anything to do with that to dsm owners if you down own a dsm then your car sucks? (just check any 420a thread to see this in action ON YOUR OWN FORUM). no can't be that... or the "holier then thou" attitude 90% of the dsm crowd has? hmm.. nah. must be something else. blame the rest of the world instead. they are all wrong..

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Yup I agree. Humble and DSM'er really don't belong in the same sentence anymore

Every DSM'er I meet is either a rice-head that has a quad turbo 420a, or is so arrogant I'd rather b!$#@ slap them than to talk to them. I'll be at the shootout this year so hopefully that will change.