Hey Yeti. In all seriousness here, everybody here on this forum is willing to help you, if you let them. People stop by this thread and many others to help you. You even have wiseman coming by trying to help you.How you may ask? We ALL have been through stuff like this, and eventually grow out of it. Trying to make your car as fast as you can with the least amount of money possible. Usually starts when one first gets a forced induction vehicle. I may not be speaking for everyone but I know I am for a lot of them. But the truth is, taking a DSM to 500hp is a bit of work. And to be honest, $500 is going to get you a QUALITY peice for your car that you want to use. And believe me, once you start getting up there that high in horsepower, you DO NOT want junk on your car. Because cutting corners will come up in the long run. I am not trying to be a d*** about it, but I am only helping you out for the sake of you and your car.

razrman8 said:

Hey Yeti. In all seriousness here, everybody here on this forum is willing to help you, if you let them. People stop by this thread and many others to help you. You even have wiseman coming by trying to help you.How you may ask? We ALL have been through stuff like this, and eventually grow out of it. Trying to make your car as fast as you can with the least amount of money possible. Usually starts when one first gets a forced induction vehicle. I may not be speaking for everyone but I know I am for a lot of them. But the truth is, taking a DSM to 500hp is a bit of work. And to be honest, $500 is going to get you a QUALITY peice for your car that you want to use. And believe me, once you start getting up there that high in horsepower, you DO NOT want junk on your car. Because cutting corners will come up in the long run. I am not trying to be a d*** about it, but I am only helping you out for the sake of you and your car.

Click to expand...

thanks for the input

i will not be Cutting corners more of being very patient to GET THE quality pieces for discount.

and budget is 1500

yeti-gvr4 said:

thanks for the input

i will not be Cutting corners more of being very patient to GET THE quality pieces for discount.

and budget is 1500

Click to expand...

Alright, I just figured I would try and somewhat reason. People here ARE trying to help you. Its just that $500 wouldnt just automatically get you 500hp or the turbo to do it , you can not just judge hp off of money spent. Just does not work like that. Though you probably know that.

wow your stuburn, do you think you can insure quality used parts for that price? i think now open your ears and listen and you might understand where everyone is coming from. SAME BOAT HERE. got my eclipse with a 16g and started putting used parts in it. yea it was fast for 3 months now its sitting in my garage. now im trying to raise about 6K to meet my HP goals. why so much money u might ask?RELIABILITY.

91stocker said:

With you having a 91 you may be able to run dsmap instead of link. That will save you $600+ right off the start. Holset and injectors may be found for $500 if your patient or know someone. So this may be plausible.

Click to expand...

Stop with the fixation with $600! Ostrich, logger, and cable are not free. $600 is for logger, cable, and Link tunign solution. 'Significantly less' is a better reply. Let's keep this factual.

OP, you cannot do it for $500 worth of upgrades considering your current list. You may get it all free, via various avenues; but the value of the parts required in addition to your current modification list will total far over $500. Really, we are here to help. We are telling you that you need to wake up.

If you have the time anything is possible. I picked up a set of evo 9 injectors and fuel pump for $80 because I offered to pay him. I probably could have just helped him out with something and got them for free. True he was a friend... but the more stuff you learn to do yourself, the more money you will save. Just be careful and I would be excited to see how much you do end up putting down with you budget even if you fall short of the 500 mark.

yeti-gvr4 said:

only time will tell if my bargain shopping will help,
thanks to every one with advice


all you haters

THANKS FOR THE THREAD SPACE AND TIME

Click to expand...

classy.

regardless:

* what gauges do you currently have? if none, do you plan on adding any, and if so which ones? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what intake do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to what? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what blow off valve do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what boost controller do you currently have? if none, do you plan on adding one, and if so which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what exhaust do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what exhaust manifold do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what fuel pump do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what intercooler/intercooler piping do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what clutch do you currently have? if stock, do you plan on upgrading, and if so to which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what ecm/tuning equipment do you currently have? if none, do you plan on adding one, and if so which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* what fuel injectors do you currently have? if stock or none, do you plan on adding one, and if so which one? how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* are you planning on running anything supplemental like NOS, alcohol/meth/water injection/etc.? if so, do you already have them? if not, how much do you realistically think they will cost you?

* are you planning on running the stock transmission? if so, how long do you think it will last at 500whp? if not, how much do you think rebuilding the transmission with upgraded parts will cost you?

once you answer these questions, you can get a better, more helpful answer, if you don't already figure it out by initial price estimates...

Damn that was a long list of questions.

JasonStern said:

classy.

regardless:

once you answer these questions, you can get a better, more helpful answer, if you don't already figure it out by initial price estimates...

Click to expand...

How about you look at his mod list and clean that up some, damn

1.autometer boost.oil temp. And narrowband. - got all 3 of these in a pillar for 50$-with greddy profec-b
2.injen intake and sstock intake manifold
3.HKS BOV -greddy profec-b boost controller
4.hks muffler 3inch turbo back exhaust
5.stock exhaust mani. Will get a tubular mani...and no not a 950$-will shoot for a knock off for 30$
6.stock fuel pump.will get a 255 for 80$ EBAY
7.no name fmic all hard pipes
8.stock blue top injectors
9.just bought a safc2 for 30$
10. No NITROUS
11.2600 act2 clutch
12.stock tranny

Wisemen I know that the actual cost of parts from the original vendor would be highly expensive but I'm talking about people and making bargains or trades.

dsm-onster said:

Stop with the fixation with $600! Ostrich, logger, and cable are not free. $600 is for logger, cable, and Link tunign solution. 'Significantly less' is a better reply. Let's keep this factual.

OP, you cannot do it for $500 worth of upgrades considering your current list. You may get it all free, via various avenues; but the value of the parts required in addition to your current modification list will total far over $500. Really, we are here to help. We are telling you that you need to wake up.

Click to expand...

Yea im sorry its really alot more then that. I was using 600 to be nice, but since you brought it up. link to run sd still requires extra purchase of the sd bundle and sd cable thats an extra $150 so $750 plus shipping on 3 items $800+ to get link on your car. Compared to me 100 for ostrich(used) 30 dsmap logger cable(new), junk yard sensors 30, jackal free, fullthrottle adapter cable 45. $200 up and running sd. So 600 is a rough savings but pretty close honestly.

Btw hes since changed his budget to 1500. For someone looking to spend a max of 1500, 800+ on tuning really isn't feasible and not a bang for your buck like hes looking for.

Here
Holset -300 (used)
injectors(750's wont cut it) traded for larger plus cash - 100
dsmap - 200
clutch - (xtd stage 4) - 350
wally pump - 50 (used)
Stock 1g fpr is good enough

That puts you at $1000. That as cheap as i think it could be done, if your mod list is correct. I didnt see 500whp anywhere either. 500 crank maybe with alot of

AlaskanDsm said:

If you have the time anything is possible. I picked up a set of evo 9 injectors and fuel pump for $80 because I offered to pay him. I probably could have just helped him out with something and got them for free. True he was a friend... but the more stuff you learn to do yourself, the more money you will save. Just be careful and I would be excited to see how much you do end up putting down with you budget even if you fall short of the 500 mark.

Click to expand...

That's the mother**ckin spirit

yeti-gvr4 said:

WOW

YOU ARE SPECIAL

I HAVE MOST OF WHATS NEEDED(amazes me how ignorant you are)
why don't you read my posts

Click to expand...

Why don't you list specifically everything exactly down to brand name that you already have. Then in the same post make a similar type of list of parts down to brand name that you still need to buy and next to each part put down how much you plan on paying for it. I think you could clear up some discrepancies with information like that. Then we can all tell you how cheap you can possibly get each part you still need, or if your goal on cost is realistic, as well as give responses about anything else you may need to add to your list.

I feel that you probably haven't done something like this yet because you don't truly believe it can be done for $500 - $1500 (whatever low cost you're aiming for) anymore and you're just being defiant about it.

If it can be done, please, produce this list.

Usually in a good build there's upwards of $500 in just miscellaneous things like (in no particular order) oil feed and return lines, various nuts and bolts (stainless hardware, new banjo bolts, ARP hardware where needed, etc.), couplers, T bolt clamps, new belts, new various gaskets and seals, fluids, non-cruise throttle cable (how often do you retain cruise on a 500 hp build?), bearings, balance shaft elimination kit, prothane motor mounts (if you wanted), ss clutch line, ss brake lines, etc. Other maintenance things you run into such as, clutch cylinders, brake pads and rotors (stopping is nice too), sway bar links, maybe a control arm or two, water pump, oil pump, O2 sensors, other various sensors, spark plugs, PCV valve, fuel filter, thermostat, etc. There's so many things I could go on forever. I'm wondering if you've taken stuff like this into consideration...

yeti-gvr4 said:

1.autometer boost.oil temp. And narrowband. - got all 3 of these in a pillar for 50$-with greddy profec-b
2.injen intake and sstock intake manifold
3.HKS BOV -greddy profec-b boost controller
4.hks muffler 3inch turbo back exhaust
5.stock exhaust mani. Will get a tubular mani...and no not a 950$-will shoot for a knock off for 30$
6.stock fuel pump.will get a 255 for 80$ EBAY
7.no name fmic all hard pipes
8.stock blue top injectors
9.just bought a safc2 for 30$
10. No NITROUS
11.2600 act2 clutch
12.stock tranny

Wisemen I know that the actual cost of parts from the original vendor would be highly expensive but I'm talking about people and making bargains or trades.

Click to expand...

The biggest injector size you can run with an SAFC is 650 cc. $470 left, continue.

wkmitsu said:

If it can be done, please, produce this list.

Usually in a good build there's upwards of $500 in just miscellaneous things like (in no particular order) oil feed and return lines, various nuts and bolts (stainless hardware, new banjo bolts, ARP hardware where needed, etc.), couplers, T bolt clamps, new belts, new various gaskets and seals, fluids, non-cruise throttle cable (how often do you retain cruise on a 500 hp build?), bearings, balance shaft elimination kit, prothane motor mounts (if you wanted), ss clutch line, ss brake lines, etc. Other maintenance things you run into such as, clutch cylinders, brake pads and rotors (stopping is nice too), sway bar links, maybe a control arm or two, water pump, oil pump, O2 sensors, other various sensors, spark plugs, PCV valve, fuel filter, thermostat, etc. There's so many things I could go on forever. I'm wondering if you've taken stuff like this into consideration...



The biggest injector size you can run with an SAFC is 650 cc. $470 left, continue.

Click to expand...

Sell safc 2 for 100 or 150 if possible and buy this ecu+ that's for sale (silverbox)
And why don't you take into consideration I said this build wasn't going to happen and if it did it would be for one dyno pull.since a lot of people think you need brand name top dollar new parts to make a good build --I will be finding out 1st hand now as I will attempt.............and please realize this build will be for one dyno pull then revised down a lot for driving purposes..........

And is it that the parts are from recognizable vendors that makes the build good or "reliable"
Or is it the numbers it puts up or is it how much abuse it can take.

Vendors get popular because certain people use them in there build and everyone else wants their build to be just as good. Or as strongg so the particular vendor becomes well known for the part being mass produced in the same way they make the one that's 500$ less

yeti-gvr4 said:

Sell safc 2 for 100 or 150 if possible and buy this ecu+ that's for sale (silverbox)
And why don't you take into consideration I said this build wasn't going to happen and if it did it would be for one dyno pull.since a lot of people think you need brand name top dollar new parts to make a good build --I will be finding out 1st hand now as I will attempt.............and please realize this build will be for one dyno pull then revised down a lot for driving purposes..........

And is it that the parts are from recognizable vendors that makes the build good or "reliable"
Or is it the numbers it puts up or is it how much abuse it can take.

Vendors get popular because certain people use them in there build and everyone else wants their build to be just as good. Or as strongg so the particular vendor becomes well known for the part being mass produced in the same way they make the one that's 500$ less

Click to expand...

Ok, so if you don't want to list brand name then don't, but I would still like to see a an exact list of parts you think you still need to make the power you want and how much you plan to pay for each of them.

You will need a larger turbo for 500hp.

AlaskanDsm said:

If you have the time anything is possible. I picked up a set of evo 9 injectors and fuel pump for $80 because I offered to pay him.

Click to expand...

the problem with this is that acquiring parts to make 300hp are a lot cheaper and easier to come by than parts to make 500hp...

rlacasse1 said:

Damn that was a long list of questions.

Click to expand...

he wants 500hp. that requires a bit more than an intake/exhaust upgrade...

91stocker said:

How about you look at his mod list and clean that up some, damn

Click to expand...

because he mentioned earlier in this thread that he had things missing from his list, such as 750cc injectors. if people on this forum are trying to help him, I don't think it's unreasonable that he take a minute to list out what he has, what he doesn't, and since price is a concern, how much he thinks the parts he is missing go for.

---

anything I say "probably" with you should have confirmed elsewhere. I've never built cars faster than 13s, but I do have some knowledge/research...

yeti-gvr4 said:

1.autometer boost.oil temp. And narrowband. - got all 3 of these in a pillar for 50$-with greddy profec-b

Click to expand...

at the very least, I'd recommend getting a wideband O2 sensor and/or EGT sensor so you have some idea how rich/lean your motor is running. what good is 500hp if the motor only lasts a few seconds?

yeti-gvr4 said:

2.injen intake and sstock intake manifold

Click to expand...

the intake is probably fine, but if you're using an injen intake, then you're most likely using the stock 1g MAF, which will not measure enough air to reliably make 500hp. a budget option would be a 3G eclipse MAF, but you might have to go MAF-T at that level...

likewise, I'd imagine the stock intake would be rather restrictive at 2.5x its intended power level. a budget option would be an intake manifold from an evo III.

yeti-gvr4 said:

3.HKS BOV -greddy profec-b boost controller
4.hks muffler 3inch turbo back exhaust

Click to expand...

I would imagine these are sufficient...

yeti-gvr4 said:

5.stock exhaust mani. Will get a tubular mani...and no not a 950$-will shoot for a knock off for 30$

Click to expand...

I don't think a TDO-5 exhaust wheel is going to get you where you need to be, so factor in a larger turbo. the good news is that that you can find cheap manifolds with T3 outlets on ebay since you want to go that route.

yeti-gvr4 said:

6.stock fuel pump.will get a 255 for 80$ EBAY

Click to expand...

you will also need an upgraded fuel pressure regulator to handle the 255LPH fuel pump.

yeti-gvr4 said:

7.no name fmic all hard pipes

Click to expand...

probably sufficient but you will need new pipes made or adjustments to your current pipes to get them to fit the larger turbo.

yeti-gvr4 said:

8.stock blue top injectors

Click to expand...

these will need to be upgraded. I'd imagine somewhere in the 1000cc+ range...

yeti-gvr4 said:

9.just bought a safc2 for 30$

Click to expand...

S-AFC2 would be fine, not ideal, for injectors up to 650cc. but since you're looking at >1000cc injectors, you aren't going to be able to trick the ECU into thinking the airflow is off enough to compensate for injectors over twice the size of the stock, especially at idle...

yeti-gvr4 said:

10. No NITROUS

Click to expand...

why not? and why not alcohol/meth/water injection?

yeti-gvr4 said:

11.2600 act2 clutch

Click to expand...

ACT 2600 clutches are only rated for 400hp. you're probably fine short-term, but long term you will probably need something stronger.

yeti-gvr4 said:

12.stock tranny

Click to expand...

a stock transmission will not last long at 500hp unless you drive very delicately, which most likely would defeat the point of obtaining 500hp.

you still didn't list realistic prices for anything you are missing...

also, what are you planning to do with this car? do you just want one badass dyno run or are you actually planning on racing it? if you're planning on racing it, get it running reliable as-is, then practice and get good at drag racing. do it now while your car is cheap to fix anything that breaks on, then add more power. something to think about at least...

best of luck!

So I need 3g eclipse MAF
1000cc injectors--------- I have 750s to sell or trade with $ on my side
255lph fuel pump + afpr
New clutch + new tranny ( would I do to the tranny to make it better, ill attempt to rebuild one.)-
Ecu+ (plus)piggyback tuning----------- (I have safc-2 I will sell for 150 to buy the ecu+ for 150)
Gt35r(either off of ebay or used) will sell my 16g to make some $ back
Modified hardpipes to fit gt35r


Sounds right around $1500 or less for extra misc.

Oh and this will be my grocery getter ect.
I just want one bad ass dyno pull

This thread is retarded

Well, lets try to help. Stating the obvious doesn't improve anything here

91stocker said:

Yea im sorry its really alot more then that. I was using 600 to be nice, but since you brought it up. link to run sd still requires extra purchase of the sd bundle and sd cable thats an extra $150 so $750 plus shipping on 3 items $800+ to get link on your car. Compared to me 100 for ostrich(used) 30 dsmap logger cable(new), junk yard sensors 30, jackal free, fullthrottle adapter cable 45. $200 up and running sd. So 600 is a rough savings but pretty close honestly.

Btw hes since changed his budget to 1500. For someone looking to spend a max of 1500, 800+ on tuning really isn't feasible and not a bang for your buck like hes looking for.

Here
Holset -300 (used)
injectors(750's wont cut it) traded for larger plus cash - 100
dsmap - 200
clutch - (xtd stage 4) - 350
wally pump - 50 (used)
Stock 1g fpr is good enough

That puts you at $1000. That as cheap as i think it could be done, if your mod list is correct. I didnt see 500whp anywhere either. 500 crank maybe with alot of

Click to expand...

Anyone can wire in the sensors without the bundle, just like they would with ds-map. That's for convenience. And anyone can run JY sensors which are included in that SD bundle from ECMTuning. I didn't pay $150 extra to convert from maf operated link to map operated link. So it's more like a $400 difference for NEW Link vs. USED ostritch + ds-map software/new cable. Which, yes, is significant, new vs. used; you have to weigh the benefits to see if they are wirth it to you. And a $175 difference vs. new link lite which is all the op needs to see his goal frankly. . . Now, a new ostritch is about double. So if you're in to getting use (like getting JY sensors), you can get link used for a bit less too. That brings the cost difference even closer. . . This IS what the OP is apparently looking for: good deals on used performance parts.

But otherwise, your post there is rather accurate. And would put the OP on the right track for the best budget setup.

To add to that, OP, your intercooler is suspect. It MAY do the job. But better for you would be e85. And NO! 750s are not enough for e85 and 500whp. 1000cc injectors are enough for e85 and your goal. If you want to stick to race fuels, then you may actually get by with 750s. You need comp 200s, fp2s, hks272s in the least.

What is an act 2 clutch?

That used $300 holset still requires a bolton housing for $250 or a t3 manifold for the same or more. A t3 (original holset turbine housing) hx35 can give you 500whp easily. But typically, a fresh t3 manifold that bolts onto a 4g63 is going to run you more money than a bolton housing. Oil feed and drain modifications are required, as with any turbo if such size. So you have possibly another $500 to add to that. . . Plus really you need a cam upgrade to make this feasible, so another $200-400.

ecu+ for $150? Jump on htat. Thats cheaper than going the used route with ds-map. Another full piggyback system that is successful in this platform to look out for is the MAF Translator Pro. New, it is $400. But Iwould be suprised if you could score one for about half used. And it functions well in Speed Density, where ecu+ does not have that feature. Ecu+ arguably has a better logger than Maf Translator Pro because you can see %IDC and Knock sum, which MAFTPro doesn't do natively, I believe.

The biggest injector size you can run with an SAFC is 650 cc. $470 left, continue.

Click to expand...

I've never seen this written in stone anywhere. You can run 1000s if you choose on a safc. Problem is its going to be pig rich because he won't be able to pull out enough fuel. If youre serious about doing it and willing to spend $1,000 pm me ill point you down the correct path.

You could be pretty happy with those 750s & safc, get a gm-maft. Also
I ran 780s like that for 3 years as a Dd.. Went 12.30's with shitty 60ft & decent tune. On a pte 57trim bolt on, 3" exhaust, fmic & ppipes. *wb02* 100% Stock motor. Etc miss it!

Yes, i think he would be OK with 750s and an safc. And he wold be happy with what that could give him. that would NOT give him 500whp typically. It will take some quality tuning on the dyno. That's ALOT of money right there. This is a 'budget build'.

hubz91talontsi said:

I've never seen this written in stone anywhere. You can run 1000s if you choose on a safc. Problem is its going to be pig rich because he won't be able to pull out enough fuel. If youre serious about doing it and willing to spend $1,000 pm me ill point you down the correct path.

Click to expand...

Realistically, if the OP is this "fresh" with the dsm platform as he appears, then he won't get a good enough tune with 1000cc injectors running an safc alone to output 500whp.

dsm-onster said:

Well, lets try to help. Stating the obvious doesn't improve anything here



Anyone can wire in the sensors without the bundle, just like they would with ds-map. That's for convenience. And anyone can run JY sensors which are included in that SD bundle from ECMTuning. I didn't pay $150 extra to convert from maf operated link to map operated link. So it's more like a $400 difference for NEW Link vs. USED ostritch + ds-map software/new cable. Which, yes, is significant, new vs. used; you have to weigh the benefits to see if they are wirth it to you. And a $175 difference vs. new link lite which is all the op needs to see his goal frankly. . . Now, a new ostritch is about double. So if you're in to getting use (like getting JY sensors), you can get link used for a bit less too. That brings the cost difference even closer. . . This IS what the OP is apparently looking for: good deals on used performance parts.

But otherwise, your post there is rather accurate. And would put the OP on the right track for the best budget setup.

To add to that, OP, your intercooler is suspect. It MAY do the job. But better for you would be e85. And NO! 750s are not enough for e85 and 500whp. 1000cc injectors are enough for e85 and your goal. If you want to stick to race fuels, then you may actually get by with 750s. You need comp 200s, fp2s, hks272s in the least.

What is an act 2 clutch?

That used $300 holset still requires a bolton housing for $250 or a t3 manifold for the same or more. A t3 (original holset turbine housing) hx35 can give you 500whp easily. But typically, a fresh t3 manifold that bolts onto a 4g63 is going to run you more money than a bolton housing. Oil feed and drain modifications are required, as with any turbo if such size. So you have possibly another $500 to add to that. . . Plus really you need a cam upgrade to make this feasible, so another $200-400.

ecu+ for $150? Jump on htat. Thats cheaper than going the used route with ds-map. Another full piggyback system that is successful in this platform to look out for is the MAF Translator Pro. New, it is $400. But Iwould be suprised if you could score one for about half used. And it functions well in Speed Density, where ecu+ does not have that feature. Ecu+ arguably has a better logger than Maf Translator Pro because you can see %IDC and Knock sum, which MAFTPro doesn't do natively, I believe.

Click to expand...

Op would be wise to listen to this guy. Good run down. I forgot about the bolt on housing, maybe an ebay t3? since he isn't worried about dependability. I tried to give him a bulk "cheap ass" part list haha. Left him 500 for misc. Still hard to see this happening. When i start thinking of all the small misc things that come up that list can grow out of that budget pretty fast.

91stocker said:

When i start thinking of all the small misc things that come up that list can grow out of that budget pretty fast.

Click to expand...

AMEN! Isn't it hard to track the money you've spent? You remember how much the major upgrades cost, certainly. But that doesn't equal what was taken out of your account in the long run. Maintenance, support parts, misc. flanges/pipes, exhaust rerouting, tweeking, and typical screwups. Yes, these cars can be had to that 500hp level VERY affordably vs. OTHER platforms. . . But you are right. Even $1500 is a bit farfetched.

Certainly worth the try. But OP, don't be suprised or irritated with the platform because you cant get to that goal with that tight a budget. . . That is what really gives these cars a bum rap.