really lean? creep? opinions

hardcorandy · Dec 22, 2010

I finally fixed my clutch issue. I have an ACT flywheel and clutch setup in my car now. Everything else is stock and i'm running wastegate pressure with the other end of the my hose connected to the J pipe.

So a friend of mine comes over and we take it out on a test run. Hes behind me running a 2g awd. 255wally-850 injectors-t28 @ 22psi and dsm link. I know "endeffect0" is a good tuner as well. Both did a 3rd gear roll and he did not pull away from me that much. My car seemed to be running great. We get back to the house and i pull my plugs. WAAAAAAY Lean.
My fuel filter looks really old so im just gonna get a new one. Injectors just put back in the car with all new seals. Full pump sounds pretty healthy. I haven't hit any kind of a fuel cut.

I dont have a boost gauge in the car yet and I cant really tell if its pulling harder in the higher rpm. Any way to check for creep without a gauge? Any other possibilities to look into of this lean situation besides the filter?

I know the car had boost leaks before i took it apart. I went over every fitting while I had the time on my hands. Just seems to be running so much better since i put it back together so I dont know. Thanks!

sniver · Dec 22, 2010

If you ever plan on doing anything to your car, get a boost gauge, It's a valuable item. It could very well be boost creeping. Even the exhaust is stock?

Fuel filters are maintenance items that can and will restrict fuel flow.

Check for leaks or kinks in the fuel lines.

Make sure the vacuum line is connected properly to the fpr.

Pics maybe? Did you let it idle for ever before pulling plugs? or was it very close to when you boosted?

genegoesfast · Dec 23, 2010

You really need a boost gauge, and a wideband while you're at it. Are u running a stock fuel pump? If so without an afpr you could be running some wacky fuel pressure. Or could be a bad front 02.

DSMDEMON93 · Dec 23, 2010

In this instance a boost gauge/wideband gauges are a MUST to monitor any modification to the car's air/fuel mixture. To check for creep, you would need a gauge, and monitor the boost "creep" past your max set psi. Also, an EGT gauge is not bad, as you can check for excessive heat, to know if you are running lean as well.

LiquidX · Dec 23, 2010

Gauge is the only way. It should be one of the very first if not the first mod done while doing maintenance. Without one you are just boosting in the dark as the stock gauges are horrible.

If you buddy was just barely pulling away from you and you are 100% stock then his tuning must not have been that great at all.

hardcorandy · Dec 23, 2010

I assure your his tuning is good

. My exhaust is stock as well. I know i dont have any fuel leaks but will check to kinks and do the filter. I have planned on getting gauges and whatnot as I just got the car on the road since I bought. I didnt even think about checking the o2. I will pull that tonight then let it idle a bit and pull the plugs again. Thanks!

endeffect0 · Dec 23, 2010

Ill chime in on this too.

In my opinion he is over boosting. plugs are coming out lean, and he is a damn sight quicker than... well then he should be. I have run with my fair share of eclipses, his is quicker than quite a few... and his is stock, which is.. um, interesting.
My little t28 tuned car has run with several big 16g cars. and that same night we were running with a guy with the standard big 16g-3in exhaust-FMIC-Wally set up and I was going shift for shift. and a bit quicker with the spool time.
on my old setup on 17lbs i think andy's little 1g would have had me. which just should not be happening on stock boost.

Andy would you post a picture of your turbo & wasitgate actuator, so someone more knowledgeable can verify what they are.

I agree that gauges are the priority. However lets constraint on what parts the previous owner stuck in that car for now. seeing as we can actually make some progress on that end.

92AWDHX40 · Dec 23, 2010

No way around it boost gauge, and wideband there important tuning devicesGet those go for a run let us know what you get.

hardcorandy · Dec 23, 2010

Here is the rundown.

Plug that I just pulled after i was out running last night. this was on boost until the last 30 minutes of driving then i stayed off boost.

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turbo? It is a tdo5h is all i know.

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previous owner deletion.

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bypass and misc

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Fuel filter and check o2 is in order. See anything out of the ordinary?

LiquidX · Dec 23, 2010

It looks good to me. You have your answer already with being in need of a boost gauge. Your fuel filter should have been changed as maintenance and a wideband WILL help in determining your actual AFR. Until you get those there isn't a real solid way of helping you out. You have already diagnosed you are running lean, you just need to find out why now.

Out of curiosity have you done a boost leak test at all to verify you are leak free? It won't make you lean but it never hurts to check.

sniver · Dec 23, 2010

Two other ideas I had today, I can clarify if needed;
Have you ever looked to see if the maf was hacked?
& Do you have the provisions to check and verify the base timing is 5*?

Could you do this for us? Go do a pull,let off, coast to the road side, turn her off, and then snap a pic of the plugs in 1&4. 1&4 because the one is usually the richest, and the other is usually the leanest. Just don't turn it off in boost,150k rpm turbine+no oil pressure= bad. In my opinion, 30 mins of driving afterwards make the pulled plugs "reading" questionable.

Whats the cover on the bov? I've never seen one, is it factory? </off-topic>

hardcorandy · Dec 23, 2010

I have yet to do a leak test. As I said Ive been over every fitting making sure everything is snug. But who knows if i have a pin hole somewhere. Last bit of maintinance is on the way. Last owner just threw the car together and well the alternator bolt went through my oil pan the day i got it. I had tore down the ENTIRE car after that and put it back together making sure everything was to spec. New timing belt and water pump as well while it was apart just to be safe. Ill have a fuel filter, boost and wideband gauge next friday and update. Next step then was gonna be dsm link so i can tune before heavily modding.

sniver said:
Two other ideas I had today, I can clarify if needed;
Have you ever looked to see if the maf was hacked?
& Do you have the provisions to check and verify the base timing is 5*?

Could you do this for us? Go do a pull,let off, coast to the road side, turn her off, and then snap a pic of the plugs in 1&4. 1&4 because the one is usually the richest, and the other is usually the leanest. Just don't turn it off in boost,150k rpm turbine+no oil pressure= bad. In my opinion, 30 mins of driving afterwards make the pulled plugs "reading" questionable.

Whats the cover on the bov? I've never seen one, is it factory? </off-topic>

2 nights ago I did a hard pull then shut it down right afterward. All the plugs still came up as the one in the pic. Consistent. Maf was never hacked. I only pulled the silencer out of it. Wouldnt the hack make it richer? As far as timing goes ive grounded the pin and got 5*.

Yup. It is the factory cover. I had a factory cover on the firewall where the A/C lines went into the dash as well. This is the first dsm I've owned that still had them. I love how clean the car is. Just has a few bugs.

sniver · Dec 23, 2010

Not necessarily/ depends on the extent. hacking it just makes it retarded. Turbulent air is hard to meter making it very inconsistent.
I doubt a boost leak is the issue here, as like said, would make it richer.
I'm leaning towards the o2 sensor or the fuel filter at this point.

I enjoy when somebody gets advise, and listens to it. So logical, yet so mind boggling.

hardcorandy · Dec 23, 2010

sniver said:
I enjoy when somebody gets advise, and listens to it. So logical, yet so mind boggling.

I try.

The object is to make her "Lucy" healthy and have a nice life. Along with getting spoiled a lot. Its been a long process just getting this far. Thanks for the help.

Update. Ok, So I bought a fuel filter and installed. Let her warm up and took her out for 2 half throttle pulls. I shut down right after the pulls and checked the plugs. They look much better for only running for 10 minutes. So i think its safe for some normal driving on Xmas and then Ill check the plugs again. If that checks out then Ill get gauges before i go WOT just incase I do have creep.

I cut open the old fuel filter. There was 10 layers of cardboard in it and it was shot.

TylerAWD · Dec 24, 2010

LiQUiDx said:
It looks good to me. You have your answer already with being in need of a boost gauge. Your fuel filter should have been changed as maintenance and a wideband WILL help in determining your actual AFR. Until you get those there isn't a real solid way of helping you out. You have already diagnosed you are running lean, you just need to find out why now.

Out of curiosity have you done a boost leak test at all to verify you are leak free? It won't make you lean but it never hurts to check.

off toppic but the cover is on 90 dsm only i had one on my stock 90 dsm

+1 on the boost gauge there cheap and one of the best mod for reassurance

sniver · Dec 24, 2010

I'm glad to see she's takin a turn for the better. I know the guys here apprieciate gettin helpful posts tagged as such LOL

. Have a good holiday and post back if anything else comes up!

hardcorandy · Dec 26, 2010

Results as we stand.

New fuel filter= plugs are looking a little better. Still slightly lean i think.
Boost gauge = Set up to run wastegate pressure. Hits its 9psi as normal. Creeps to 13psi by about 5k and stays steady to 7k.

I will be performing another boost leak test since i hooked up the gauge. I still need to get a wideband and will still be doing so this coming Friday.

What road should i take to get rid of this? Is creeping to 13psi terrible and something that has to be fixed before driving it again?

sniver · Dec 26, 2010

Creeping to 13 isn't terrible, you'll be fine. I don't think you can't fix the creep issue, unless its due to the partial lean issue. I'll reread this againlater.

Sent from my droid.

hardcorandy · Dec 31, 2010

So on a boost leak test I came up with 2 problems. First one is a leak in the valve cover gasket right next to the cam gear. The gasket is new and the bolts are tight. Im a little worried about cracking the cover or stripping the bolts. The second one i dont think i can get rid of right now. I can hear my oil bubbling in the pan. Which I assume can only be from the oil return line. Which means bad seal in the turbo? I double checked for shaft play of any kind and I have zero. I dont even burn any oil. Can anyone possibly shed some light on the oil bubbling problem? Im 100% sure its not coolant.

sniver · Dec 31, 2010

you could have the motor at a point where the intake valves are open, and it leaking pressure past the rings,which would normal to a certain extent. I'm wondering why you have a boost leak in your valve cover. Your crank case should never be pressurized. How about you pcv, is it not sealing and pumping air out into the vc? still there should be a vent line to the intake that would not let pressure build up.

I don't think your turbo is the issue here, but we need to figure out why you are able to pressurize the crankcase. Please provide as much detail as possible, where are you connected to , lines off, or plugged. Can you move the tester to the intake elbow and retest.

hardcorandy · Dec 31, 2010

I have a really nice home made tester. I just need to make different size pucks to fit various places. I had did my test right after the MAF.

After i found the leak in the valve cover I plugged the PCV and the line on the left side of the cover. It took the pressure out of the head. Well couldnt hear that leak anymore. PCV valve bad?

As far as the bubbling oil, I thought about it for a bit. There are oil 2 things under oil in the crank case. 1. Oil return from turbo. 2. Oil pick up. Your right about the turbo thing. Then I went hey, the oil pick up. Any reason why I'd leak down through the pick up?

I have the 3 gauge pod in my center dash vent. I have the boost gauge in their now. The next is gonna be wideband. I think the Last one for now should be an oil pressure gauge. That would be my best bet. I get great oil pressure from what the stock gauge says but i know they are BS too.

Thanks for the help man :thumb:

sniver · Dec 31, 2010

The two places I attach my blt are; the turbo inlet, and the intake inlet if nessesary.

The oil return of the turbo is above the oil sum, the oil pickup is the only thing lower if I'm not mistaken. Oil bubling is probally just air moving through the block bubbling oil film or just blowin it around.

If the blt is on the intake, and you have air moving through the pcv, then the pcv is bad. If you align the cams dowel pins up, I think that's the best you can do to make sure the valves are closed.

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really lean? creep? opinions

hardcorandy

sniver

genegoesfast

DSMDEMON93

LiquidX

hardcorandy

endeffect0

92AWDHX40

hardcorandy

LiquidX

sniver

hardcorandy

sniver

hardcorandy

TylerAWD

sniver

hardcorandy

sniver

hardcorandy

sniver

hardcorandy

sniver

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