I'm in the process of finishing up a new 3-pc crossmember design and would like some input from the auto-x and road race crowd, or anybody else for that matter. Tell me what you do and don't like, and if you have any good suggestions for any changes that can be made, post 'em up.

This set-up utilizes the same front bar that I've been offering. I've added attachment points to the underside. These are very strong 1/2-13 threaded mounting points and offer a full inch of thread engagement into the bar. The two north-south bars are made of 1.00 x .095 chrome moly. Their small diameter helps for clearance around engine and transmission components, and their heavy wall thickness makes for a very strong and rigid bar. The tubing ends are high quality chromoly and the rod ends are 1/2" shank and hole economy heims.

The north south bars attach to the front bar and travel back to the subframe. They attach to the existing holes that the factory north-south bars used. Both bars are easily adjustable in length, as each one uses a right-hand and a left-hand threaded heim.

The only things not pictured are the aluminum heim bushings and the bolts to attach them. I'm still waiting for the aluminum round stock to show up to machine the bushings. Unfortunately, I won't be able to show you guys what this looks like installed until I get the bushings and bolts. I'm using Dan's car (project_tsi) as my test subject. He's already got the crossmember bar installed right now, and I'm hoping we'll be able to get the north-south bars on it by next weekend. I'll be sure to update this thread with pictures when that happens.

At this point, I would love to hear some opinions on the design. Anything different you would like to see with it, or is this about what you guys would want out of a 3-pc chromoly crossmember? Any interest in teflon-lined heims or Seals-it seals for the heims? Any input or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.





Also, please refrain from asking about pricing at this point. I won't know where this is going to be priced until I have all my costs figured, and I don't want this to be a for sale thread.

I think you pretty much hit it on the nose, I'd have to get back under the car and sit there for a while to get some ideas of what could be better or necessary.

Have you figured out the weight savings so far?

I'm not 100% sure on weight savings yet. I just haven't weighed my chromoly north-south bars yet. I could probably do that later today though. I'm guessing all three chromoly pieces will weigh in at around 12 lbs.

Here's actual weights on the factory pieces though (+1.2 lbs for the asssociated fasteners):

They look great paul! Makes me wish i had a 1g so i could buy em

Paul,

No hope for us 1g auto guys anytime soon?

I think its pretty perfect. Just wondering to which mounting point they will attatch to on the subframe? This is what I have been waiting for... BEAUTIFUL

CPHunter said:

Paul,

No hope for us 1g auto guys anytime soon?

Click to expand...

These very well may fit the A/T 1G's. I just haven't had the opportunity to test fit on one yet. Unfortunately, nobody has an A/T 1G around here.

talon91tsiawd1 said:

I think its pretty perfect. Just wondering to which mounting point they will attatch to on the subframe? This is what I have been waiting for... BEAUTIFUL

Click to expand...

Thanks, man.

They will attach to the forward most point on the subframe that the factory bars attached to.

Front crossmember:
Factory - 12.0 lbs
Chromoly - 5.2 lbs


Drivers side north-south bar:
Factory - 5.7 lbs
Chromoly - 2.0 lbs


Passenger side north-south bar:
Factory - 4.9 lbs
Chromoly - 2.3 lbs


Totals:
Factory - 22.6
Chromoly - 9.5 lbs

Weight savings: 13.1 lbs (plus almost a full pound less fasteners)

Where is the 2g love?

greengoblin said:

Where is the 2g love?

Click to expand...

It's going to be tough to improve on the 2G design. There's only 1 bar on the 2G, and it's not very heavy nor does it take up much space. Nevertheless, as soon as I buy a bender, I might consider recreating the 2G bar as well. There's defintely room for improvement on the front 2G roll stop, and I sure could use the extra space for my turbos.

Looks great. I'm definitely wanting something like that for my 1G.

99gst_racer said:

These very well may fit the A/T 1G's. I just haven't had the opportunity to test fit on one yet. Unfortunately, nobody has an A/T 1G around here.

Click to expand...

They should fit without a problem. The front mounts themselves are the same on the manual and auto. The bracket on the block that the mount bolts to is what is different.

this setup looks sweet. I was hestitant at first just losing the north/south bar but now with new ones this look great.


what about a chromemoly bumper support for us street guys who want to save some weight but don'tt want to lose the support and/or hack it nothing and room for a big intercooler??

1992awdlaser said:

They should fit without a problem. The front mounts themselves are the same on the manual and auto. The bracket on the block that the mount bolts to is what is different.

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Yeah, I know it will physically bolt up to the chassis. The only question I have is the location of the roll stop. I've heard that the only difference is in the roll stop bracket, but I've also seen some A/T cars that run the "347" M/T bracket as well. So, I've been reluctant to advertise these for the A/T cars until I can sort it all out and pysically test fit one myself.

I'm currently running the front crossmember on my A/T swapped '90 AWD and I originally could NOT get it to work properly using the A/T front bracket. No matter how much I tugged and pulled on the motor, the bracket bolt holes would not line up with the roll stop holes. HOWEVER, once I drilled out the holes in the bracket a bit, it worked just fine and works great!

To all who buys one of these, make sure to hit it with a nice coat of paint or powdercoat before installing it. Mine developed some minor surface rust as I didn't paint it first. Still works great though!

SonySlave said:

I'm currently running the front crossmember on my A/T swapped '90 AWD and I originally could NOT get it to work properly using the A/T front bracket. No matter how much I tugged and pulled on the motor, the bracket bolt holes would not line up with the roll stop holes. HOWEVER, once I drilled out the holes in the bracket a bit, it worked just fine and works great!

Click to expand...

Do you have both the front and rear bracket for the auto installed?

I still cant get mine to fit right I can't get anyone to buy it off me either for what I paid for it. Sucks.

What made you want to add extra bars to it?

elementalwindx said:

I still cant get mine to fit right I can't get anyone to buy it off me either for what I paid for it. Sucks.

What made you want to add extra bars to it?

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I didn't know you were having fitment issues with yours, Greg. Is it for your '90? PM me with the problem that you're having.

There's a demand for the 3-pc design. It's for added rigidity for the guys that are doing hard cornering. And for the guys that aren't comfortable running without any north-south bars.

1992awdlaser said:

Do you have both the front and rear bracket for the auto installed?

Click to expand...

I am running all automatic brackets, so yes, I am.

Potentially stupid question:

It looks like the front motor mount is solid? Or am I not correct in my underhood geometry?

If so, any plans to allow for a poly bushing?

Yup, it's a solid front mount.

I have no plans to make a poly bushed version. I just don't see the need. This solid version doesn't increase vibration on most cars. I installed the front bar on Dan's 1G last week, and we couldn't feel any more vibration than before. A poly bushed version would equal a higher cost and slightly more weight, without any real benefit.

99gst_racer said:

Yup, it's a solid front mount.

I have no plans to make a poly bushed version. I just don't see the need. This solid version doesn't increase vibration on most cars. I installed the front bar on Dan's 1G last week, and we couldn't feel any more vibration than before. A poly bushed version would equal a higher cost and slightly more weight, without any real benefit.

Click to expand...

I didn't notice any increased vibration from the solid front mount either. One thing I DID notice was better shifting between gears with the solid mount than with the poly insert though. I just had my car to the track a couple weeks ago for the first time since installing Paul's crossmember and the car just seemed easier to shift when banging through the gears than it was before.

Paul, we exchanged a PM the other day about the new 3 piece setup. First off I would like to thank you for continuing to improve on your original lateral bar. I think the north south addition (bars) are a great idea. I've been helping a friend with a Civic hatch (not that it matters) with the install of his Full Race (brand) traction bar setup. Now those traction bars in his car attach from the front cross brace (like the front roll stop you have made) and then extend to the lower control arms. Is there anyway you would consider researching this idea and possibly adding it into your design? Just a suggestion.

** Also I think the seals on the heim joints and teflon coating is a great idea.
** Another thing I like about the adjustable heim joints is being able to take the north south bars off to change the clutch (trans, t case or whatever) without removing the front (roll stop) bar.
** Are there any plans to add tabs (to attach the under tray) for guys that are running a front under tray? (just a suggestion) I know some guys with EVO's that have installed the Buschur under tray (goes from the front bumper to the mid oil pan area to keep the air directed under the car, I'm sure you know what an under tray is, I just didn't have a picture to use a reference like the traction bars below).

99gst_racer said:

Yup, it's a solid front mount.

I have no plans to make a poly bushed version. I just don't see the need. This solid version doesn't increase vibration on most cars. I installed the front bar on Dan's 1G last week, and we couldn't feel any more vibration than before. A poly bushed version would equal a higher cost and slightly more weight, without any real benefit.

Click to expand...

Ah, ok. I've never been in a DSM with solid bushings, so that's uncharted territory.

GRAVEDIGGER said:

I didn't notice any increased vibration from the solid front mount either. One thing I DID notice was better shifting between gears with the solid mount than with the poly insert though. I just had my car to the track a couple weeks ago for the first time since installing Paul's crossmember and the car just seemed easier to shift when banging through the gears than it was before.

Click to expand...

Good to hear.

e85_4g63 said:

Paul, we exchanged a PM the other day about the new 3 piece setup. First off I would like to thank you for continuing to improve on your original lateral bar. I think the north south addition (bars) are a great idea. I've been helping a friend with a Civic hatch (not that it matters) with the install of his Full Race (brand) traction bar setup. Now those traction bars in his car attach from the front cross brace (like the front roll stop you have made) and then extend to the lower control arms. Is there anyway you would consider researching this idea and possibly adding it into your design? Just a suggestion.

Click to expand...

That Full Race piece looks nice. I have considered attaching the bars directly to the control arms, but that would require some modification to the control arms to make it work. Also, these north/south bars attach to the subframe near the front control arm mounting point, so it may accomplish the same goal in the end anyway. I really need to get some pictures posted on this mounted on a car, so you guys can get the full effect.

On a related note: I notice Full Race used aluminum suspension tubes on that design. I have this option as well, but I wasn't sure if they'd be strong enough. The aluminum tubes that I have available are a .156" wall thickness. They're a bit lighter, and quite a bit cheaper. And they're probably strong enough, but I figured I'd just use chromoly just to be sure that the strength was there. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

e85_4g63 said:

** Also I think the seals on the heim joints and teflon coating is a great idea.
** Another thing I like about the adjustable heim joints is being able to take the north south bars off to change the clutch (trans, t case or whatever) without removing the front (roll stop) bar.
** Are there any plans to add tabs (to attach the under tray) for guys that are running a front under tray? (just a suggestion) I know some guys with EVO's that have installed the Buschur under tray (goes from the front bumper to the mid oil pan area to keep the air directed under the car, I'm sure you know what an under tray is, I just didn't have a picture to use a reference like the traction bars below).

Click to expand...

I just priced out the teflon lined heims, and they're surprisingly not much more expensive, so I'll probably just offer those with the kit. The seals would only add a few bucks to the total cost, so I'll either include those or offer them as an option. Yeah, the removeable north/south bars will be handy when servicing the car, and they help quite a bit with shipping fees as well.

I didn't plan on welding on tabs for anything else. I figured I'd leave that up to the end user to add any additional mounting for an under tray, custom radiator mount, etc...