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Evo 8 ECU In 2g Works!!

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clockworktoy said:
Cool that you got that working cedy but is there any actual gains from using a 9 ecu over an 8? I don't really see much advantage. On a sidenote knochgoon24 did you ever work out the fan tables like you wanted?
Click to expand...

I believe the evo 9 has higher load cells than the 8...

But that doesnt mean much since you can get past those limits in a way anyhow...;)

R

RD Engineering
 
knochgoon24 said:
Still haven't heard about the fan stuff. My thread on EvoM went unanswered.
Click to expand...
What a shame, i made a post a while back trying to figure out the same stuff but never got a reply.

r18eclipse said:
I believe the evo 9 has higher load cells than the 8...

But that doesnt mean much since you can get past those limits in a way anyhow...;)

R

RD Engineering
Click to expand...

Actually they have the same columns for load and you can rescale them to whatever suits your needs.
 
clockworktoy said:
Cool that you got that working cedy but is there any actual gains from using a 9 ecu over an 8?
Click to expand...

No, there aren't any gains from using the 9 instead of 8 ecu. I did it because I got the 9 ecu for cheap and no one had done it before. The different style plugs probably makes it harder.

The 9s do have more memory and better cpu, but for average user this isn't going to make any difference.

If we could do a MIVEC Head on a DSM motor it would be a different story, but the only person I know of with MIVEC on a DSM motor is Kiggly, and thats a totally custom, one off setup.
 
Ok. After some sleep (I work night shift now) I started searching on evom for the fan tables for 9653 based maps. Found them.

PHP:
	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty" category="Fan Control 2" address="45ac" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
			<data>On1</data>
			<data>On2</data>
			<data>On3</data>
			<data>Off1</data>
			<data>Off2</data>
			<data>Off3</data>
			<data>A/C1</data>
			<data>A/C2</data>
			<data>A/C3</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty #2" category="Fan Control 2" address="575c" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="3">
			<data>On</data>
			<data>Off</data>
			<data>A/C</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

Now. That combined with the stuff merlin.oz has found (mainly switch over points)...

PHP:
	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty 22-52-82kph" category="Fan Control" address="45ac" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
			<data>Main Fan 20-50kph</data>
			<data>Main Fan 50-80kph</data>
			<data>Main Fan 80->>kph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 20-50kph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 50-80kph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 80->>kph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 20-50kph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 50-80kph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 80->>kph</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty 0-22kph" category="Fan Control" address="575c" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="3">
			<data>Main Fan 0-22kph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 0-22kph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 0-22kph</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

And now w/ headers for those of us still using imperial units... :D

PHP:
	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty 0-12mph" category="Fan Control" address="575c" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="3">
			<data>Main Fan 0-12mph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 0-12mph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 0-12mph</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Thermo Fan Duty >12mph" category="Fan Control" address="45ac" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="Percent (128)">
		<table name="Conditions" type="Static X Axis" elements="9">
			<data>Main Fan 12-31mph</data>
			<data>Main Fan 31-50mph</data>
			<data>Main Fan 50->>mph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 12-31mph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 31-50mph</data>
			<data>A/C Fan 50->>mph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 12-31mph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 31-50mph</data>
			<data>Main+A/C 50->>mph</data>
		</table>
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6a14" type="Y Axis" elements="12" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

What the tables look like:
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It works this way:
-Evo's use PWM to control the main fan. It's been suggested we set these to either 0 or 100 since we use relays.
"Main Fan" is the duty cycle for the main fan while the A/C is off.
"A/C" Fan is the a/c fan speed when the a/c is on.
"Main+A/C" is the main fan duty cycle while the A/C is on.

Here's a nice writeup by merlin.oz. http://evoecu.logic.net/mirror/merlin/Merlins EcuFlash EVO 7-8-9 TUNING GUIDE-V1.7a.pdf In it, he lists the fan switch over speeds and explains the fan control on pages 119-120.

When logging, request 84 should be the main fan duty cycle. The formula for that x/128 *100 for duty cycle (I think). You should be able to use that to see if your fan is on or off.

The fans have a 4kph (~3mph) hysteresis. As you speed up, they'll trigger the next column 2kph above the set point, and as you slow down, they'll trigger the slower column 2kph below the set point.

I take no credit (or blame) for finding this stuff. I just searched. :cool: Most of this cooling fan stuff has been found by merlin.oz on evom.



Hope this helps some of you now that it's getting hotter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks a lot, definitely useful. I had been concerned with fan switching points at one time and started to look at this stuff before seeing the discussion on evo fans being PWM but I never actually finished looking for the stuff.
 
I might go on a nice long drive later today. There's one hill that I know I always used to get pretty warm on the climb up. I'd still like to find the tables for when the a/c fan will kick on due to coolant temps. I know they've found that for some roms, but I haven't tracked it down yet for 9653 ones.
 
Because I run open loop I'm switching to 170* thermostat so that I don't have to worry about kicking on the second fan. If you're in the same position that you are worried about heat then it might be a good solution for you as well Wes.
 
I have a 170* thermostat in already... the car has always run warm, even before the front mount.

Here's some more stuff, including that one address I was looking for to set when the A/C fan will kick on because of coolant temps.
PHP:
<table name="AC Fan Low Duty" category="Fan control" address="2478" type="2D" scaling="Percent (128)">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>Off -> Low</data>
<data>Low -> High</data>
</table>
</table>



<table name="AC Fan High Speed" category="Fan control" address="1ad2" type="2D" scaling="VehicleSpeed">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>On</data>
<data>Off</data>
</table>
</table>

<table name="AC Fan High rpm" category="Fan control" address="1ada" type="2D" scaling="RPMStatLimit">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>On</data>
<data>Off</data>
</table>
</table>

<table name="AC Fan High coolant" category="Fan control" address="1ade" type="2D" scaling="Temp">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>On</data>
<data>Off</data>
</table>
</table>

<table name="AC Main Coolant" category="Fan control" address="1ae8" type="2D" scaling="Temp">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>On</data>
<data>Off</data>
</table>
</table>

<table name="AC Main TPS" category="Fan control" address="1ae4" type="2D" scaling="ThrottlePercentage">
<table name="Condition" type="Static Y Axis" elements="2">
<data>On</data>
<data>Off</data>
</table>
</table>
 
You know what. If somebody wants to run an electric water pump those cooling temp vs duty cycle maps would come in handy. You could run the electric water pump off of them and it would work pretty sweet. I think a DC motor can take a duty signal as long as you can find a solid state relay to drive it you should be golden. Then run the cooling fan off the same signal you are driving the electric water pump with.
 
Ya, you definitely want the pump on all the time. When I did my alternator relocation and was having problems with the belt coming off, I would lose the water pump too. The car would start to overheat within 30 seconds of not spinning.
 
So has any one else noticed their car struggle at idle with the a/c on until the isc can adjust? I did some logging and it looks like something needs adjusted. You can see the ISC steps max out at 80 any time the a/c is turned on.

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I'm going to try adjusting the BISS, and if that doesn't work, I'll have to start looking at ECU tables.

Also, my A/C fan kicks somewhere above 210*F and shuts off at 210* as it cools back down while parked. I hit 233*F having some fun on mountain roads last night with 68* ambient temps. WTF My car seems happy to sit at 203*F.

I'm going to try flushing the coolant and refilling it with some Water Wetter and the proper amount of coolant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Ok. Time for some news. I started searching EvoM and found a whole ISCV disassembly thread. It's some complicated stuff. Anyway, one thing has stuck out already, and that's the ISCV trim adjust frequency. Stock it's set to 1000ms, so it isn't adjusting all that quickly. Decreasing it should help the car return to the target idle quicker. That may be the first thing I try after adjusting the BISS screw.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I fixed my A/C issues.

The ISC steps seem to max out at 80. Looking at the tables, it's only expecting a value of ~7 steps during neutral idle while I have values near 60.

So the first thing I did was adjust the ISC update frequency value from 1000ms to 250ms. That helped since the ISC could now adjust faster. But it still didn't solve the problem.

Next I adjusted the table for how much it adjusted the ISC steps based on idle error. Again, it corrected faster, but it still stopped at 80.

I then adjusted the BISS using the acutator button in EvoScan. It turns out that my BISS really needed adjusted. Surprise. No wonder I had values of 60 when it should have been about 7.

But now the idle was sky high and the ISC steps weren't coming down that fast. I turned off the car and turned it back on. Still high idle. Duh. The ECU saves ISC values like fuel trims. So I pulled the battery terminal and reset the ECU. Tada.

ISC step values are now near 10 steps. The A/C no longer makes the car want to stall.

Problem solved.
 
Hi does anybody know the correlation between load index on the evo maps and G/rev used on dsms(tunerpro)?

I would like to try to use an evo timing map on my dsm but don't know what load cells from the evo map correspond to the ones on my map.


Any help?
Thanks.
 
mikyrc said:
Hi does anybody know the correlation between load index on the evo maps and G/rev used on dsms(tunerpro)?

I would like to try to use an evo timing map on my dsm but don't know what load cells from the evo map correspond to the ones on my map.


Any help?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

109533d1273608003-lets-see-your-tuned-timing-maps-1g_loadaxis_div.jpg


Basically Load / 80 = Gram/Rev

The 1G map is limited because it only goes up to 165 Load.
 
No problem about 1G limitations, I'm using extended maps.

So on evo maps, I just have to apply that formula (load/80) to get the corresponding g/rev?

So to be shure I understand it correctly, a 240 raw load on 1G corresponds to 1.88 g/rev and on the evo map would correspond to 240/80=3.00 g/rev right?
 
Hey guys I am trying to use a new tephra v7 code (ROM 94170715) and cant get the MAF scaling right. The new one in v7 has "MAF adder" in it. The units are not the same so I am have problems with what I should plug into the new MAF scaling + Maf adder column for the 2g MAF. The graph on the right is just pulled straight from the ECU using ecuflash with the dsm values. The graph on the left is the v7. The units are different on the column on the left and the values are oddly off by a factor of 10. Even if I wanted to change the MAF scaling on the v7 from 357 to the 126 i cant. V7 wont let me go any lower than 175.

Has anyone encountered this?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
it has been a while since i played with my EVO8 ecu because my car has been down but the way i understand it is that Tephra mod version 7 MAF scaling is actually both the MAF scaling and the MAF adder added together, so to scale the EVO8 ecu with the values for the 2G MAF you would have to take the MAF scaling and add the MAF adder to it and use that. basically because there is not a scale for the 2G adder just add 80.2 to everything in the MAF scaling table...
 
I think Mike took care of your question but I have a question for you, why are you using 9417? It will work but it will also throw CELs and isn't well tested for DSMs. Instead switch to the 9653 rom which also has more community support as it is considered more or less the universal evo8 rom. Furthermore it is also the rom that (I'm pretty sure) all of us use so we can easily find definitions for the things you need just by checking our definition sets instead of telling you to search evolutionm.net because we've never dealt extensively with 9417.
 
@mike96
Thanks!
@The Mork
Ok would that explain why when I plugged in my EVO 8 with that ROM it came back with a code for the crank and camshaft sensors? I will get the 9653 today and futz with that.

Long story short. Evo 8 ecus in a 2g thread started. I bought one my clutch grenaded. While it was down Ceddy came out with ceddy mods. I got my 96 tsi awd car running loaded ceddy mods and love it! But inspection came up and I fail for P0446 EVAP circuit malfunction. In PA they plug into the OBD II port and will fail you for a "Not Ready" sensor.

I cant find any information on the 98 evap system. I know they have a second sensor on the carbon canister but I have no idea how it wires into the 98 ecu. Since I am driving a 96 it is not wired for the extra EVAP solenoid.

So i said forget it I have an EVO 8 ecu with patch harness why not just force the codes to ready and ok. My buddy has an EVO and he runs the force codes so I asked for his files.

So that is how I got to where I am now.
 
sounds about right... Nevada is basically the same inspection, i wasn't aware of there being a readiness code for the evap sensor. crazy thing is that both times i have had my car inspected i have disconnected the battery and cleared the ecu within minutes before having the tests done... this was with both the original 96 ecu and the EVO8 ecu before the readiness patch came out and have passed both times at two different places. i was told by the last tech it was because there was a problem in the Mitsubishi code that showed the readiness tests as "passed". now i am starting to think it is just in how the tests get done here...

but like Mork mentioned you will defiantly get more support with the 9650 ROM. i got the same two CEL's with the 9415 ROM.
 
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