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Holset Turbos, PART 7

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I was wondering, what different types of Divided manifolds can I use with a 8 Blade Holset Hx-35 on a .55AR Bep housing?

I always see here that you can use non divided manifolds, but I was looking for a divided manifols that fits onto the bep housing of a Hx-35.

Specifically on a 1991 GSX

That makes no sense its a mitsu inlet. You need the .70A/R for a T3 setup.
 
That makes no sense its a mitsu inlet. You need the .70A/R for a T3 setup.

Actually you would want to use a divided Holset housing instead of a BEP to match a divided manifold.
 
Actually you would want to use a divided Holset housing instead of a BEP to match a divided manifold.

That cleared things up a bit LOL, For some reason I thought the BEP housing was divided...

Most Stock holset housings ARE divided anyway right?
 


I guess i missed that thread. Very interesting.




Cassera, yeah most Holset housings are divided. The most common hx35 housing is a divided 12cm which will probably spool ridiculously fast with a divided manifold.

Has anybody finished a twin scroll 12cm hx35 setup yet? I would expect to see full boost close to 3000rpm or so, but thats just a guess.
 
I am piecing together a full Twin Scroll set-up for a 7-blade HX35 for my long rod 2.0L.
I have found 12cm^2, 14cm^2 and 16cm^2 Divided T3 Housings with short 3" V-Band Outlets for the HX35.
I just need to be sure which housing I want to spend my money on.
Once I go Divided T3 I don't plan to run anything else...
Too much $$$ to convert over.

According to the Holset Results Thread:

The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

Does Twin Scroll set-up make that much of a difference?
In your estimation, will a divided TS 12cm^2 set-up be enough to hit 30psi by 3500rpm and big enough to hold 30psi to say 8krpm?

Here's a little chart I found that converts cm^2 to A/R's:

6cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12cm2 = 0.89 A/R (a very well balanced turbine housing, I recommend this over the rest.)
14cm2 = 0.97 A R
15cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19cm2 = 1.37 A/R
 
I am piecing together a full Twin Scroll set-up for a 7-blade HX35 for my long rod 2.0L.
I have found 12cm^2, 14cm^2 and 16cm^2 Divided T3 Housings with short 3" V-Band Outlets for the HX35.
I just need to be sure which housing I want to spend my money on.
Once I go Divided T3 I don't plan to run anything else...
Too much $$$ to convert over.

According to the Holset Results Thread:

The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

Does Twin Scroll set-up make that much of a difference?
In your estimation, will a divided TS 12cm^2 set-up be enough to hit 30psi by 3500rpm and big enough to hold 30psi to say 8krpm?

Here's a little chart I found that converts cm^2 to A/R's:

6cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12cm2 = 0.89 A/R (a very well balanced turbine housing, I recommend this over the rest.)
14cm2 = 0.97 A R
15cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19cm2 = 1.37 A/R

I am doing the exacty same as you. My 7 blade HX35 with the stock 12cm housing is on it's way from Cummins. I'm pretty excited.
 
I am piecing together a full Twin Scroll set-up for a 7-blade HX35 for my long rod 2.0L.
I have found 12cm^2, 14cm^2 and 16cm^2 Divided T3 Housings with short 3" V-Band Outlets for the HX35.
I just need to be sure which housing I want to spend my money on.
Once I go Divided T3 I don't plan to run anything else...
Too much $$$ to convert over.

According to the Holset Results Thread:

The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

Does Twin Scroll set-up make that much of a difference?
In your estimation, will a divided TS 12cm^2 set-up be enough to hit 30psi by 3500rpm and big enough to hold 30psi to say 8krpm?

Here's a little chart I found that converts cm^2 to A/R's:

6cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12cm2 = 0.89 A/R (a very well balanced turbine housing, I recommend this over the rest.)
14cm2 = 0.97 A R
15cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19cm2 = 1.37 A/R

My estimation was based on what ive seen on my hx40. With a non-divided manifold and 18cm housing i would see full boost around 5100rpm, but with a divided manifold and 17cm housing it changed to around 4100rpm. With the same non-divided manifold and a wh1c with a 12cm housing i would see full boost around 3700rpm. Thats why id estimate close to 3000-3100rpm spool on a twin scroll 12cm hx35 setup which i think is probably realistic. My wh1c setup had no problem pushing 35psi to 7500rpm, so i would guess that a twin scroll 12cm hx35 will be fine at 30psi to 8000rpm.

I also dont know how accurate that chart is.


Cassera, thats what the manifold was designed around :thumb:
99781d1251395237-punishment-racing-t3-divided-housing-manifold-special-offer-100_1154.jpg
 
My estimation was based on what ive seen on my hx40. With a non-divided manifold and 18cm housing i would see full boost around 5100rpm, but with a divided manifold and 17cm housing it changed to around 4100rpm. With the same non-divided manifold and a wh1c with a 12cm housing i would see full boost around 3700rpm. Thats why id estimate close to 3000-3100rpm spool on a twin scroll 12cm hx35 setup which i think is probably realistic. My wh1c setup had no problem pushing 35psi to 7500rpm, so i would guess that a twin scroll 12cm hx35 will be fine at 30psi to 8000rpm.

I also dont know how accurate that chart is.


Cassera, thats what the manifold was designed around :thumb:
99781d1251395237-punishment-racing-t3-divided-housing-manifold-special-offer-100_1154.jpg


That is crazy quick spool for the hx-35!! That is why I want to go the same route with a 12cm2 hx35 and twin scroll mani....

Im am still considering which cams would compliment that set-up....
I really don't want to rev past 8000, but yet I am considering kelford 272's with kiggly springs OMG
Do you think that valve-train set-up will compliment the the hx-35 without having to rev past 8000 to get a good powerband? Or would you recommend smaller cams?
 
Last night at Pittsburgh Raceway Park, TalonDave sent his car down the track for the first time this season- the first time at the track since his full build and new 6-blade HX40 setup.

He doesn't have a cage in the car yet, and PRP is rather strict at inforcing rules so the officials would promptly direct him off the track if he were to run under a 11.49. As a reminder, the car ran a best of 11.60 @ 121.52 with the stock, beat-up 6-bolt and HX35 last year.

First pass down the track was more of a shakedown run to get used to how the car pulls, launches, and drives in general since the build. He lauched a little slow (1.78 60ft), and the car really appeared to tear ass from there on out. He didn't want to run under 11.49 so he backed out right at the 1000ft mark and crossed the traps 11.62 at just 98mph. That's right, this pass was just as fast the the HX35 / stock 6-bolt could do running the entire length of the track. His 1/8th mile MPH was 102, which was 1mph faster in the 1/8th than Ricky's (dacowgod) 11.08 @ 131 pass last fall.

Second pass came almost two hours later after someone spread oil the length of the track. Dave decided he was going to give it hell regardless since it might be the last run of the night. Launch was hard as hell- just before the 60ft mark, the driveshaft literally blew out from under the car. All three u-joints on the rear driveshaft broke at the same time! It appears that perhaps the yoke on the rear diff let go and the three joints broke as a result. The only joint left intact was the one right at the transfer case....the t-case output shaft was still intact!


A 10-second pass soon to follow.
 
I'll take one to save for my 2.4L build.
I have some money in my paypal account burning a hole in my pocket.
But I'm still going with a divided HX35 first.
 
Any video, Justin?
There is video, none uploaded yet.

Have any 17cm HX40 Pros in stock? LOL
If I did, you'd be at the bottom of a list of about 30 people that want one. I somehow lucked out and found Dave's core last fall for $200 which came to me as a busted pile of rust. A ton of labor for cleanup and a parts kit later, he's knocking on the door of a 10-second pass!
 
Last night at Pittsburgh Raceway Park, TalonDave sent his car down the track for the first time this season- the first time at the track since his full build and new 6-blade HX40 setup.

He doesn't have a cage in the car yet, and PRP is rather strict at inforcing rules so the officials would promptly direct him off the track if he were to run under a 11.49. As a reminder, the car ran a best of 11.60 @ 121.52 with the stock, beat-up 6-bolt and HX35 last year.

First pass down the track was more of a shakedown run to get used to how the car pulls, launches, and drives in general since the build. He lauched a little slow (1.78 60ft), and the car really appeared to tear ass from there on out. He didn't want to run under 11.49 so he backed out right at the 1000ft mark and crossed the traps 11.62 at just 98mph. That's right, this pass was just as fast the the HX35 / stock 6-bolt could do running the entire length of the track. His 1/8th mile MPH was 102, which was 1mph faster in the 1/8th than Ricky's (dacowgod) 11.08 @ 131 pass last fall.

Second pass came almost two hours later after someone spread oil the length of the track. Dave decided he was going to give it hell regardless since it might be the last run of the night. Launch was hard as hell- just before the 60ft mark, the driveshaft literally blew out from under the car. All three u-joints on the rear driveshaft broke at the same time! It appears that perhaps the yoke on the rear diff let go and the three joints broke as a result. The only joint left intact was the one right at the transfer case....the t-case output shaft was still intact!


A 10-second pass soon to follow.


Finally, nobody can talk down on holset's......Soon enough!
 
There is video, none uploaded yet.


If I did, you'd be at the bottom of a list of about 30 people that want one. I somehow lucked out and found Dave's core last fall for $200 which came to me as a busted pile of rust. A ton of labor for cleanup and a parts kit later, he's knocking on the door of a 10-second pass!

Understandable. I hate I sold mine. I just refuse to lose AC on my car or I'd have a 52. As bad as I hate to say it I'm going to run either a divided 6262 from Ron or a divided s366.
 
Finally, nobody can talk down on holset's......Soon enough!
So true. What's great about all of this is that we're talking about a car that is by no means a shop car. Dave funded his entire build himself on a budget that puzzles even myself while trying to live on the remainder of a paycheck that is already stretched as thin as it can be while his wife is is school full time for her Masters.

Car was running VP110 and tuned by Ricky (dacowgod) at 30psi of boost on a very conservative 11-12* of peak timing.
 
I still don't know why people say Holset's aren't proven. Here's a link to an Hx-40 running high 11's...He missed 4th, was hitting 112% duty cycle on injectors AND had a boost leak out the TB.

YouTube - 11 second Holset hx40 1g dsm

Anybody know who that is by the way?
 
My hx35 housing arrived today from BEP, looks like my turbine wheel is rubbing on the housing, has anyone had this issue? I am going to clean it up tonight and see if that helps any.
 
Make sure the housing is sitting flush on the CHRA. The typical rust can be a pain.
 
My Holset arrived today! Hx-35 8 Blade. Just need to source a Bep Mistu housing and order my wastegate set up.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
I just got back from vacation and last week I finished my temporary install (still using 3" dejon intake untill my 4" FP intake comes in and then i'll switch from the 2G maf to my 3" GM Maf-t blow through set up) on my 7 blade HX35. Drove it around a little and even did a rough tune on it set at 20psi on pump gas (stock long block and no head studs). I checked it over and the only issue i have is the brass fitting between the oil feed line and the top of the CHRA is seeping oil and the gasket at the bottom of the CHRA going to the oil drain is leaking a little more than seeping. I was thinking for the brass fitting, pull it back out wipe it off and put some plumber's tape aka teflon tape on the threads and put it back in. Then for the oil drain gasket, pull it out and then put some high temp RTV silicone on it to try to seal it. Has anyone else ran in to any sealing issues, both connections are tight. I thought about asking Justin directly and thanking him yet again for such an awesome job on this beautiful turbo, but it sounds like a general problem. Let me know what you think guys. I bought some more batteries yesterday so i'll be taking some pictures of the install.
My Holset arrived today! Hx-35 8 Blade. Just need to source a Bep Mistu housing and order my wastegate set up.
I called Amy at Bullseye Performance and I got mine in less than 3 days later. :thumb:
 
I just got back from vacation and last week I finished my temporary install (still using 3" dejon intake untill my 4" FP intake comes in and then i'll switch from the 2G maf to my 3" GM Maf-t blow through set up) on my 7 blade HX35. Drove it around a little and even did a rough tune on it set at 20psi on pump gas (stock long block and no head studs). I checked it over and the only issue i have is the brass fitting between the oil feed line and the top of the CHRA is seeping oil and the gasket at the bottom of the CHRA going to the oil drain is leaking a little more than seeping. I was thinking for the brass fitting, pull it back out wipe it off and put some plumber's tape aka teflon tape on the threads and put it back in. Then for the oil drain gasket, pull it out and then put some high temp RTV silicone on it to try to seal it. Has anyone else ran in to any sealing issues, both connections are tight. I thought about asking Justin directly and thanking him yet again for such an awesome job on this beautiful turbo, but it sounds like a general problem. Let me know what you think guys. I bought some more batteries yesterday so i'll be taking some pictures of the install.

I called Amy at Bullseye Performance and I got mine in less than 3 days later. :thumb:

I would suggest you pull it out and do as you said. Use the yellow teflon tape and tighten it down again. I prefer to do this while the turbo is off the car because it makes it easier to tighten the fitting when nothing is in the way. As for the drain, get new gaskets and use RTV. I use RTV on both sides of the drain. No leaks anywhere.
 
1000+ posts... looks like a good breaking point to create the next chapter. If you would, please proceed to Part 8 below:


Link to part 8:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html




For more discussion history:
Link to Part 1 :
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691]Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

Link to Part 2:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192083]Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

Link to Part 3:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

Link to Part 4:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

Link to Part 5:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

Link to Part 6:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

Link to Part 7:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a.html

Link to Part 8:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/371627-holset-turbos-part-8-a.html

Link to Part 9:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html


For Holset FAQ: (growing document and not finished)
Link to FAQ:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html


For in vehicle results:
Link to Results Only:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

Link to HX-52 setup;
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html


For more specific component discussion:
Link to Holset Part #'s:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

Link to Fake Holset Info:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html


Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HY35:

The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! :) It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

H1C/WH1C:

In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

HX40:

The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

H1E/WH1E:

The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

Misc.:

  • Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
  • The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
  • Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
  • They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
  • There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
  • The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.



Summary of compressor/turbine combinations provided by mod/wiseman, JusMX141:

HX35 Compressors:
50mm / 78mm 7-blade
52mm / 78mm 7-blade
54mm / 78mm 7-blade
54mm / 83mm 8-blade
56mm / 83mm 8-blade

Turbine: 70mm / 60mm


HX40:Compressors:

56mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 86mm 6-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 86mm 7-blade (cast & billet)
58mm / 83mm 8-blade (cast & billet)
60mm / 83mm 8-blade

Turbine: 76mm / 64mm
 
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