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Recipe for ~10000rpm?

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Q8DSM

15+ Year Contributor
57
0
Mar 6, 2008
Kuwait/California, California
hey guys, i just bought a 90 talon awd and im going to be building it up slowly.

i just built my brother's 95 talon with BC springs/retainers/crane 280 cams, 2.3L stroker, PTE5857, AEM EMS ID 1000's etc.

for my car im looking to build a 2L so i can rev it high. which parts should i use?

Kiggly dual springs, Kelford cams?
will i need solid lifters or will hydraulic be ok?

how does the oil pump act at those RPM's?
i'll most likely be running a PTE 6265 with a divided housing and header built by me.

i tried to search for something like this but couldnt find it.
if this is in the wrong section i apologize.
 
hey guys, i just bought a 90 talon awd and im going to be building it up slowly.

i just built my brother's 95 talon with BC springs/retainers/crane 280 cams, 2.3L stroker, PTE5857, AEM EMS ID 1000's etc.

for my car im looking to build a 2L so i can rev it high. which parts should i use?

Kiggly dual springs, Kelford cams?
will i need solid lifters or will hydraulic be ok?

how does the oil pump act at those RPM's?
i'll most likely be running a PTE 6265 with a divided housing and header built by me.

i tried to search for something like this but couldnt find it.
if this is in the wrong section i apologize.

Make sure you get dual valve springs titanium retainers and some good valve seals, cams...the more aggressive your springs are, the more you will need solid lifters so i would go with solid lifters.

Reving to 10,000 rpm is hard on your bottom end also, so I would go with at least forged I beam rods, with maybe forged pistons (if you have the money you might even consider aluminum rods). Im not really sure how the oil pump will act but you mind as well do the oil port mod since your already doing head work....http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html
 
Haha this place is crazy about the oil port mod. I see it in every thread that has to do with the head. I did'nt do it cause mine was'nt decked that flat.
 
Haha this place is crazy about the oil port mod. I see it in every thread that has to do with the head. I did'nt do it cause mine was'nt decked that flat.

Hahaa, yeah but we try to tell people about it who are taking their heads off anyway so this way it's not that much of a hassle.

I would also tell someone who is taking there engine apart to change the water pump.....Ay you mind as well at least let them know
 
Actually, very easy:
Stuff needed.....
- deep pockets
- very light and strong rotating assembly including
-alum. rods; forged pistons/ I sugest ATOMIC SPEEDWARE-$1000 pistons;
-For cams contact FP, or Kelford's 272 would do
-Kiggly beehive springs+retainers
-Fel-Pro head gasket + L19,or A1 headstuds and probably O-Ring the block
-Some better, than reg. ARP main studs
-High capacity oil pan
-of course 2.4 block; 88mmcrank/which is 2.1 destroked with rod/stroke ratio of 1:84

May be I am missing something, but most of the above stuff would do..
 
Actually, very easy:
Stuff needed.....
- deep pockets
- very light and strong rotating assembly including
-alum. rods; forged pistons/ I sugest ATOMIC SPEEDWARE-$1000 pistons;
-For cams contact FP, or Kelford's 272 would do
-Kiggly beehive springs+retainers
-Fel-Pro head gasket + L19,or A1 headstuds and probably O-Ring the block
-Some better, than reg. ARP main studs
-High capacity oil pan
-of course 2.4 block; 88mmcrank/which is 2.1 destroked with rod/stroke ratio of 1:84

May be I am missing something, but most of the above stuff would do..

the best would be a zero capacity oil pan, most reliable and easiest to fix. Worth the money.
 
whats with the stupid sarcastic remarks?
im trying to get factual information, isnt this the spot for tech discussion?
 
whats with the stupid sarcastic remarks?
im trying to get factual information, isnt this the spot for tech discussion?

I havent seen not one sarcastic remark....If you look again CLOSELY, you will see that the information we gave you is actually helpfull.:hmm:
 
nope no sacastic remarks....i actually figured out what i wanted to know to because im wanting to build pretty much the same motor.
 
I second what Cassera said but with the money it'll take it really isn't worth the extra 500-1000 rpm you'll get out of it over a standard build. We're talking about going all the way, like a stage iv cryogen and polish block with head, all top of the line components, port matching everything, etc... By no mean it that an easy job which anyone can do.
 
9000ish and a good tune and well balanced system will get you really far and going really fast. The extra money that it takes to go superfast that everyone with a dsm feels that they need to do is not worth it.

Saying that you want a 10,000rpm motor means nothing, what are your speed goals, or horsepower goals?

Also understand that when you try to go "superfast" it is not a list that you do once. You are rebuilding motors and trannies at least once a year "almost always much more than that" so you are spending thousands upon thousands to keep the car running, I have known many people that built cars with "no limits" and they are usually fast but not what they were expecting. And after the 2nd built motor and 3rd or 4th fully built tranny they give up because (after learning the hardway" the cost is not worth it.

So If you are really asking this question you more likely than not are not ready for the time, money, and effort that it takes to go really fast. I'm not being a dick here but every dsm owner after their first round of mods wants a 9second car and most aren't running barely in the 13's Huge f*cking difference.

If you do have the money to go superfast you most likely do not own a dsm; unless you are either masochistic or have way more money than sense or cents ha.

But if this is the case you are best off dropping off your car at a big name shop-magnus,AMS,buscher,english racing, just to name a few and tell them you want to go superfast and leave them a blank check, they will be happy and so will you! But expect a full build car to cost anywhere from $30,000 on up not including the car. (and our cars are worth about $2000-$5000 at best) so a brilliant investment. but this is the info that you are looking for.

Also if you think that you can build it better yourself for cheaper you are wrong. these shop owners have experience and blood in these platforms.

After all of this if you still feel like you want to build a superfast dsm yourself, here is what you can do, send me the money that you were planning on spending I will meet up with you, and kick you in the nutz. This will give you about the same senation as trying to build a superfast dsm yourself and will save you a TON of time;-)

And the oil pan comment; I was refering to a maguns dry-sump. Not being a smart ass. This solves many of the problems with our oilpump and the fact that it spins at twice engine speed, along with oil pump pickup problems and on & on & on.

then again maybe I'm just old and bitter, who knows.
 
^^^^ Yeah I figured, you talking about dry sump... Not to mention it isn't cheap by any means...

P.S. To the OP, I wasn't making sarcasting remarks... That was my opinion.

To the turbo addict, very well put, sir...
 

Pretty much what he says.

Honestly, I can't see a reason to have to rev out to 10KRPM with a 6265, you'd just be beating up parts and your bank account. With that turbo used in a max efficiency setup, you would probably never have to go past 8500RPM.

Now a huge, laggy turbo that you doesn't get full boost until 6500RPM would benefit with such an operating range.

There's more in the picture than just engine when it comes to very high RPM. Sometimes "stock" manual transmissions don't like to shift at high RPM, so throw a dog box into the mix. Then a clutch that actually works, and Tilton carbon/carbons aren't cheap, so on and so forth.

If you just want to rev it that high to impress your friends, you're better off buying a bike and going for 17KRPM.
 
the 6265 will be using a 1.0 A/R hotside, its going to flow a LOT of air.
after doing some extensive research here is what i came up with.

ARP main studs
BC rods with custom age bolts
CP 9:1 .020 over pistons
BSEK
ported head
ARP L19 head studs with OEM MLS gasket
BC +1mm over valves
Kiggly beehive springs
Kelford 280 cams
3g lifters
i'll be building an intake manifold for it with an 80mm TB.
AEM EMS+5bar map sensor
ID 2000cc injectors
2x bosch 044 pumps
custom aluminum fuel tank
PTE 6265 turbo with divided hotside+SP spool valve
PTE 46mm WG
4" exhaust
tial 50mm bov
Vibrant performance 24x12x4" core
debating on clutches right now
Exedy twin?


turbo addict, thanks for your post, this isnt my first car i've modded. i've been building badass 3000gt's for about 10 yrs now and just now starting to dabble in DSM's so im just learning which parts are good and which to stay away from. i know very well how engines/turbos work and from my experience the 6265 with a big hotside like im going with will flow enough to rev out that high. if not i can always swap in a 6765 center cartridge for more top end.
 
Ehh... don't think you're be safe at 10,000 rpm especially with Kelford 280s and going 9:1 is going to be difficult making high boost which I think you want to do because it seems like your main focus is torturing the turbo and making sufficient lb/min flow rate.

Personally I'm not too fond of PTE turbos. If you want a cheap and strong turbo go for Cummins Holset HX52. You can pick one of those semi truck turbos up for $500~ then go twin scroll and it'll reach 20~ psi by 4600-4700 rpm on a 2.0L block.
 
9000ish and a good tune and well balanced system will get you really far and going really fast. The extra money that it takes to go superfast that everyone with a dsm feels that they need to do is not worth it.

Saying that you want a 10,000rpm motor means nothing, what are your speed goals, or horsepower goals?

Also understand that when you try to go "superfast" it is not a list that you do once. You are rebuilding motors and trannies at least once a year "almost always much more than that" so you are spending thousands upon thousands to keep the car running, I have known many people that built cars with "no limits" and they are usually fast but not what they were expecting. And after the 2nd built motor and 3rd or 4th fully built tranny they give up because (after learning the hardway" the cost is not worth it.

So If you are really asking this question you more likely than not are not ready for the time, money, and effort that it takes to go really fast. I'm not being a dick here but every dsm owner after their first round of mods wants a 9second car and most aren't running barely in the 13's Huge f*cking difference.

If you do have the money to go superfast you most likely do not own a dsm; unless you are either masochistic or have way more money than sense or cents ha.

But if this is the case you are best off dropping off your car at a big name shop-magnus,AMS,buscher,english racing, just to name a few and tell them you want to go superfast and leave them a blank check, they will be happy and so will you! But expect a full build car to cost anywhere from $30,000 on up not including the car. (and our cars are worth about $2000-$5000 at best) so a brilliant investment. but this is the info that you are looking for.

Also if you think that you can build it better yourself for cheaper you are wrong. these shop owners have experience and blood in these platforms.

After all of this if you still feel like you want to build a superfast dsm yourself, here is what you can do, send me the money that you were planning on spending I will meet up with you, and kick you in the nutz. This will give you about the same senation as trying to build a superfast dsm yourself and will save you a TON of time;-)

And the oil pan comment; I was refering to a maguns dry-sump. Not being a smart ass. This solves many of the problems with our oilpump and the fact that it spins at twice engine speed, along with oil pump pickup problems and on & on & on.

then again maybe I'm just old and bitter, who knows.

i have never heard someone go off like this but every part of it is true. LOL

i own a dsm to get dragged along a journey that might involve 10s or even 9s but even if i don't get there i still love doing it, so that in its self is enough for me the rest is just a bonus.
 
the 6265 will be using a 1.0 A/R hotside, its going to flow a LOT of air.
after doing some extensive research here is what i came up with.

ARP main studs
BC rods with custom age bolts
CP 9:1 .020 over pistons
BSEK
ported head
ARP L19 head studs with OEM MLS gasket
BC +1mm over valves
Kiggly beehive springs
Kelford 280 cams
3g lifters
i'll be building an intake manifold for it with an 80mm TB.
AEM EMS+5bar map sensor
ID 2000cc injectors
2x bosch 044 pumps
custom aluminum fuel tank
PTE 6265 turbo with divided hotside+SP spool valve
PTE 46mm WG
4" exhaust
tial 50mm bov
Vibrant performance 24x12x4" core
debating on clutches right now
Exedy twin?


turbo addict, thanks for your post, this isnt my first car i've modded. i've been building badass 3000gt's for about 10 yrs now and just now starting to dabble in DSM's so im just learning which parts are good and which to stay away from. i know very well how engines/turbos work and from my experience the 6265 with a big hotside like im going with will flow enough to rev out that high. if not i can always swap in a 6765 center cartridge for more top end.


Spool valves stupid and a waste of money...this isnt a supra.

You havent mentioned anything about a trans, so be ready to kill transmission parts, especially shifting at 10k. Theres nothing like having a stock (built LOL) transmission.

Twin disk Quartermasters with the rally disk, or a tilton carbon on carbon.

Upgraded 300m transfer case output shaft 1k

driveshaft shop 3.5 aluminum shaft 700

4 inch exhaust is real over kill.

Revving to 10k just adds so much extra stress on a motor for no reason if you dont have to....Plus most of the time your power band wont even make efficent power passed 9k when it starts to drop off.

Built a car to make power, not revv to a number. Yes the parts list adds up to a big power car...making the power and keeping it together is a whole other ball game.
 
Spool valves stupid and a waste of money...this isnt a supra.

You havent mentioned anything about a trans, so be ready to kill transmission parts, especially shifting at 10k. Theres nothing like having a stock (built LOL) transmission.

Twin disk Quartermasters with the rally disk, or a tilton carbon on carbon.

Upgraded 300m transfer case output shaft 1k

driveshaft shop 3.5 aluminum shaft 700

4 inch exhaust is real over kill.

Revving to 10k just adds so much extra stress on a motor for no reason if you dont have to....Plus most of the time your power band wont even make efficent power passed 9k when it starts to drop off.

Built a car to make power, not revv to a number. Yes the parts list adds up to a big power car...making the power and keeping it together is a whole other ball game.

to add to this i know from a buddy of mine that there are different issues with 3000gt's. all they have to worry about in the drivetrain is a weak(if you can call it that) transfercase. those guys are blessed with getrag transmissions.

im not trying to hate on q8dsm but im guessing he always dreamed about a high reving 4 cyl while building those v6's.
our transmissions can't take any abuse in comparison to the getrag and if you wanna rev a dsm to 10k you might as well go automatic because it gets real old building transmissions on the daily.
other than that its easier to do any setup you want on a dsm.
+2 on the 4inch exhaust over being over kill. unless you need an exhaust that goes anywhere near the rear bumper then i wouldn't even bother.
 
Pretty interesting. AC removal a must and if that belt breaks then you are fooked! Defiantly a nice piece for a track car! For a DD, I would look else where in my opinion especially for $5000.

I wonder if you can set your oil pressure limits so you don't go too high or too low on pressure?
 
Pretty interesting. AC removal a must and if that belt breaks then you are fooked! Defiantly a nice piece for a track car! For a DD, I would look else where in my opinion especially for $5000.

I wonder if you can set your oil pressure limits so you don't go too high or too low on pressure?

There is a fuel pump option, where the oil pump has a rear outlet Hex drive to drive a mechanical fuel pump, so if the belt breaks, the car shuts off. I agree, definitely a track car or a weekend car option.
 
But if this is the case you are best off dropping off your car at a big name shop-magnus,AMS,buscher,english racing, just to name a few and tell them you want to go superfast and leave them a blank check, they will be happy and so will you! But expect a full build car to cost anywhere from $30,000 on up not including the car. (and our cars are worth about $2000-$5000 at best) so a brilliant investment. but this is the info that you are looking for.

Not everyone puts money into their car because they feel its a good investment... Modding a car in general is a bad investment, perhaps it is simply a hobby or he has enough money to throw at it and not really worry about finances.

Just because someone throws money at an old car doesn't mean it was a stupid idea or a waste of money.
 
Not everyone puts money into their car because they feel its a good investment... Modding a car in general is a bad investment, perhaps it is simply a hobby or he has enough money to throw at it and not really worry about finances.

Just because someone throws money at an old car doesn't mean it was a stupid idea or a waste of money.

Good post, I'm so sick of people talking about cars being a bad investment or having low resale value. Most car enthusiast don't give a damn, they do it because that's what they love.
 
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