Turbo not kicking in like it used to -

Voxicles · May 2, 2010

First of all, Hello everyone, I've been browsing these forums for a few months, but was always able to find answers to my questions without having to make an account. And I'm going to apologize beforehand for not knowing too terribly much about my car. I'm a motorcycle kind of person... On to my woe;

I've got a 95 Talon TSi AWD, the engine has been replaced with one of those mitsubishi engines from japan with 65k miles on it. (I'm not entirely sure of the details, I have to dig up the papers) I've had the car for about 6 months, all other mods on the car are to do with the suspension, wheels, sound system, nothing that should have anything to do wiht my current big problem.

About a week ago, I noticed the turbo was not kicking in in 4th gear like it used to, I get up to about 60 mph and it starts to lag, the gauge is all the way at the + and it's just not kicking in. It does occasionally, but it's been getting worse every day, to the point where today i was going up an incline on the freeway, where I usually pass all the slow cars, only to find myself as one of the slow cars in the right lane.

5th gear is almost the same story, though the turbo does eventually kick in, oddly enough at about 3000 rpms, doing about 65, and I have to slightly let off the gas for it to actually kick in.

As far as I know, the turbo is stock, but I could be wrong, I'm going to have to get a hold of the person I bought it from to make sure.

Is all this a sign of my turbo's inevitable demise?

Being a 2 wheel person, I wasn't previously aware that I was supposed to leave my car on for a bit whenever i park to let the turbo wind down. Could that have done it?

I have been having some electrical problems due to me trying to do all my own audio, and have determined that my alternator isn't big enough to power everything I installed. Might that have anything to do with the turbo not reacting correctly? (I know, probably a silly question)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I apologize for the length of this post, and the lack of real information, I'll update as i dig up more papers. Hope you're all well!

-Vox

agarc023 · May 3, 2010

I would thing that the only way the audio system would affect the turbo would be if it messed with the ecu.

You could try a saturn alternator swap (cheap alts that can put out ~150 amps) and a fuel pump rewire.

95'RS-T · May 3, 2010

I'm thinking most likely your turbo is going out. Do you have any hesitation when accelerating? If so you might have a boost leak, and if the car has the stock bov you will have a leak there.

Voxicles · May 3, 2010

Hey there, thanks for the reply; There is no hesitation with accelerating at all. I don't even notice the problem until I'm at 3k rpms in 4th gear. My wife drives the car to work every day, and says she doesn't notice what I'm talking about, but then again, she doesn't drive it as aggressively as i do. If the turbo is indeed going out, would it likely be an easy fix with a turbo repair kit? I really don't have $900 to drop on the car right now for a new turbo

easy · May 3, 2010

did you have this problem prior to your audio install? low current/bad grounds can wreak havoc on the ecu/sensors/actuators/ect... if it does turn out to be the turbo, you can find a used oe for a decent price...

Voxicles · May 3, 2010

The problem didn't start happening until about a month after my botched audio install. There is indeed some low current issues at the moment, as I've noticed that my 1000w sub wont work unless the car is actually driving, doesn't work at all if I'm idling. I'll disconnect the sub and the sub's amp when the wife gets home and take it for a test drive to see if that helps at all :-/

edit: Did I mention that it seems to spool fine, just doesn't want to kick in. At least my gauge says it's spooling, and when it gets to the top, that's when i start getting lag... Oh, and my 2nd O2 sensor is out, though I don't think that'd have anything to do with it.

agarc023 · May 3, 2010

Don't rely on the stock "gauge"

All it really does is go up and down. I think you will see an improvement when you either upgrade your alternator or take out the system.

If you are still on the stock t-25 then you can find one dirt cheap on here

DSMDriver69 · May 3, 2010

Pull the intake pipe off the turbo and check for any shaft play. Also do a boost leak test. If the turbo is indeed bad, the t25 turbo is next to nothing to replace. Or you can pick up the better 14b turbo for like 100$.

Voxicles · May 4, 2010

Well i took out the sound system last night, I didn't see any improvement, but I didn't drive it around that much. Maybe the alternator needs more time to get some power to my poor battery.

As for pulling the intake pipe off the turbo and whatnot, i'm going to have to wait until I can get someone who knows what they are doing. I'm pretty much learning auto mechanics as problems arise. I really don't know where anything is situated. I'm a sad excuse of a man

Voxicles · May 10, 2010

Looks like I'm going to have to take it to a shop to see exactly what I'm going to need to buy. How terrible is it to be driving it around still without the turbo working? (Avoiding the highway)

And_44 · May 10, 2010

I'd guess a boost leak, or heavy knock is retarding your timing. What octane gas you running? I had to lecture my fiancee because found out they were putting in 89 and making me wonder where the power went. The stock boost gauge isn't accurate but does give you an idea between -/+ pressure. It does almost coincide with my after market boost gauge just as everyone say's isn't accurate.

Voxicles · May 10, 2010

The gauge is doing the same things as it did when the turbo worked. At this point, the turbo is not kicking in at all anymore, in any gear. If the gauge is any sort of accurate at all, it looks like I'm still getting pressure. I always put in the premium fuel, and so does my wife. I really wish I knew more about this kind of stuff, because I don't want to start buying parts that I don't need. Or buy the wrong parts. I fear that I'm going to be financially raped at the repair shop. Can't afford much more than $500 at the moment.

This happens to be our only car, as I have only motorcycles, so my wife still has to drive it to work every day. Hopefully it's not going to blow up on her before we can get the problem sorted out. We just make sure she avoids the freeway, as that's when the problem is most apparent

knochgoon24 · May 10, 2010

Boost leak or the turbo is going bad.

-Boost leak test
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-boost-leak-test-how-boostpro-net-tester.html
You can make your own tester with parts from the hardware store for cheaper.

-Turbo going bad
Take the intake pipe off the turbo and try to wiggle the compressor wheel inside up/down, left/right, and in/out. Anything more than just a little play means the turbo is bad. Any in/out play is bad.

Voxicles · May 10, 2010

Thanks for the responses

Is it relatively easy to take the intake pipe off? I figure if that is relatively simple, I could start with that test, then if there is no play on the wheel, then buy one of those boost gauges. Then is it really as simple as finding the leak and sealing it up?

-Vox

knochgoon24 · May 10, 2010

There's one clamp that holds the intake pipe to the turbo. Should only take you a few minutes.

BIRDCLAWTSi · May 10, 2010

+1 on checking shaft play and boost leaks, Also the octane/knock. Also the wastegate could be partially open or burnt edges/cracks on the hole the flap covers and housing. It could be alot of things but i would check these first. If it is beyond your mechanical ability, I would take it to a reputable shop who knows not only DSM's but turbo systems in general. I work in a shop with a master tech who is an amazing tech, He does however have ZERO experience with turbo vehicles. Not every mechanic does, There is alot to know, And alot to mess up. Good luck.

P.S. The boost leak test involves making or buying a tester, And a spray bottle with soapy water. You attach the tester to the same place the intake pipe connects, You clamp the tester on and apply pressure through the tester( which is essentially a piece of hose with a pcv cap and a schrader valve on the end.) Go to about 20 psi. then spray the soapy water alll around the intercooler pipes and seams, Look for bubbles, Fix the leaks.

There is alot of good information on this site. After you get this issue squared away, Do some searching about maintenance, That should be the first thing you do when you get one of these cars. I dont know what kind of shape your's is in but they need some TLC. Things ware out and need replacing, Plus there are a bunch of free mods you can do to unlock a little pep. Have fun.

Voxicles · May 10, 2010

I'm going to check for play here in a few minutes. But beyond that, everything else is beyond my mechanical ability. The turbo specialist shop I keep getting referred to by every place I call, is 30-35 miles from me, driving the car that far is scary as I don't know how much damage I'm doing to the rest of the engine with the turbo not kicking in :/

Also Just to double check, my rear O2 sensor is out, that wouldn't cause this type of thing to happen would it?

Voxicles · Jun 23, 2010

Sorry to necro this thread, but I finally figured out what was wrong. Turbo is fine, there was a rip in the intercooler piping coming from the throttle body (Underneath, so I couldn't see it) Now I'm having trtouble finding a replacement tube. I bought a 45 and 90 and a straight coupler and threw that on there, but it keeps popping off :-( Any suggestions for a cheap fix?

pj91gsx · Jun 23, 2010

Voxicles said:
Sorry to necro this thread, but I finally figured out what was wrong. Turbo is fine, there was a rip in the intercooler piping coming from the throttle body (Underneath, so I couldn't see it) Now I'm having trtouble finding a replacement tube. I bought a 45 and 90 and a straight coupler and threw that on there, but it keeps popping off :-( Any suggestions for a cheap fix?

a friend of mine wrapped layers and layers of duck tap then newspaper and more duck tape, but i dont know if that fixed his problem. Ill never get over the time he tried to use a vacuum cleaner hose on as one of his intercooler pipes. think of something be creative. The have couplers and pipes at autozone. Put a pipe in the rubber hose then a coupler to connect the pipe to the intake elbow.

Voxicles · Jun 23, 2010

I bought 3 rubber couplers and a 90 degree and 45 degree plastic elbow at autozone, and it fit after some wrestling. Maybe I didn't tighten everything enough. So is the hose that comes from the throttle body the 'upper' intercooler pipe? I can't find an exact match online for what I want. I'd like just to get an exact replacement hose, but don't want to pay dealer prices LOL

... Hmm, vacuum cleaner hosing...

natertater · Jun 23, 2010

vacuum hose!?!?! ha! that wont work. you still having issues Vox? where you live at? pm me, im off the boat friday, but leave up for LA in afternoon. sounds like you need a cap for your sound system as well as bigger alternator. yes, the UICP is the "cold side" that keeps popping off your tb. have you looked at dejon? they have hard pipe kits that cost as much as s front mount. have you thought of a front mount setup?

Voxicles said:
I'm going to check for play here in a few minutes. But beyond that, everything else is beyond my mechanical ability. The turbo specialist shop I keep getting referred to by every place I call, is 30-35 miles from me, driving the car that far is scary as I don't know how much damage I'm doing to the rest of the engine with the turbo not kicking in :/

Also Just to double check, my rear O2 sensor is out, that wouldn't cause this type of thing to happen would it?

rear o2 just lights up to let you know catalytic converter is working, or the lack thereof. it usually lights the dash up like christmas when the cat is out, or when you disconnect the rear o2. i am off work thursday after 4 or so, and have friday morning off if you really need some help. if you have a stock t-25 turbo, i could even sell you my working 14b, and upgrade for you, and install it. not too hard, i have the tools and other items you need. it would be a weekend thing. we can do it in a day i would say.

Voxicles · Jun 23, 2010

I have to wait for the wife to get home to figure out if I'm still having issues, I might not have been able to get the rubber seal on perfectly on the tb, it's in a terrible spot, and I can't really see underneath it. I'm having her check at lunch to see if she can actually see where the coupling came off, since I have it set up ; coupling, 90 degree elbow, coupling, 45 degree elbow to the tb, coupling. I haven't really thought about switching anything out, as my budget for fixing was $50, and that happened to be the exact amount of the couplings and elbows LOL

. At the moment, I'm just trying to get it to run reliable for the wife, next month I'm redoing the whole intake (and hood, but that's a different story)

natertater said:
rear o2 just lights up to let you know catalytic converter is working, or the lack thereof. it usually lights the dash up like christmas when the cat is out, or when you disconnect the rear o2. i am off work thursday after 4 or so, and have friday morning off if you really need some help. if you have a stock t-25 turbo, i could even sell you my working 14b, and upgrade for you, and install it. not too hard, i have the tools and other items you need. it would be a weekend thing. we can do it in a day i would say.

Oh my, I sure coulda used your help a couple months ago when all this started happening. My wife has been driving the car with the tear in the intercooler pipe, and just staying off the highway. Had a buddy stop by and took him for a test drive and he knew the problem instantly. Funny as how I took it to an import mechanic shop, and they said it was for sure the turbo that was bad. Shows how much they know

If times weren't so hard, I'd totally take you up on the offer of upgrading my turbo, but as it is, I'm eating ramen for breakfast lunch and dinner. business has ground to a halt :-(

This weekend I have the clutch scheduled to be replaced, though my mechanic buddy who ordered the parts, and was going to do the work wrecked his motorcycle on his way home from my house last night. Though the clutch isn't a huge problem at the moment. Just that damned uicp. Still waiting on the wife to check if she can see where it popped off...

94'TSI'AWD · Jun 23, 2010

Right before the turbo died in my 94, it started being really laggy, and not as strong, "tired" boost...if that makes sense. Not to mention when it was hopping on its last leg my boost gauge would register like 15psi of boost at 4k but i wasn't feeling like i was making boost at all.....then came the horrible whining sound then tons of smoke......it was sad LOL

Sounds like your turbo is starting to get tired.

Voxicles · Jun 23, 2010

94'TSI'AWD said:
Right before the turbo died in my 94, it started being really laggy, and not as strong, "tired" boost...if that makes sense. Not to mention when it was hopping on its last leg my boost gauge would register like 15psi of boost at 4k but i wasn't feeling like i was making boost at all.....then came the horrible whining sound then tons of smoke......it was sad Sounds like your turbo is starting to get tired.

Actually I found out it was a torn UICP, I replaced it with a few elbows and couplers in the autozone parking lot, and turbo was fine the whole way home. This morning, wife went to drive it to work, got half way, and turbo lost all power, so i'm assuming it popped off. Have to wait for her to get home to double check

Hopefully that's the only problem LOL

GsXdSmKingGsX · Jun 23, 2010

Hard intercooler piping might be your best friend.. Anytime you have a problem like that, do a boost leak test

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