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ECMLink V4??

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twdorris

Supporting Vendor
527
77
Feb 13, 2003
Frederick, Maryland
Dare I even suggest such a thing? :sneaky:

We've gotten a few question asking us what V4 is going to include now that V3 is out and working well. These are typically joking questions, but it does lead to some thought.

Two of the biggest limiting factors on our ECUs are I/O and RAM space (internal working memory). We only have so many inputs and so many outputs. You can log wideband data and boost data and, depending on the ECU, one or two other things on the given pins. Many pins have special considerations too and if you're running a factory Mitsubishi mass airflow, you're limited even further because it steals two of the inputs you'd otherwise make good use of (IAT and baro).

And then there's the output side of things. We provide full "parameter"-ized, windowed control over the EGR and FPS outputs already and we'll add boost control via the WGS output soon enough. But there are plenty of situations where people would really like to have even more outputs to do things like drive external shift lights or trigger a separate knock warning LED or a coolant-temp warning LED, etc. But we're limited to what the factory ECU provides us.

And then there's the RAM space issue. This is more an internal restriction we're forced to deal with in terms of functionality we can add and how we can add it. But this certainly affects the end user too as we'd like to do a lot more cool stuff inside the ECU that we just can't right now (ECU auto-tune for example).

To address these issues, we're giving some thought to an entirely different hardware approach. For the non-EPROM 1G (and soon 2G) ECUs, we already have a conversion board that basically "hooks" into and intercepts the processor pins. From there, we can do a LOT of cool stuff we can't do out on the EPROM socket.

If we were to develop a similar board that worked on both non-EPROM and EPROM ECUs (basically removing the processor and installing a special board whether it's an EPROM ECU or not), we can do a lot more stuff. We can add more analog inputs for datalogging, digital inputs for external switches, digital outputs for various things, MUCH faster datalogging than we do now and more extended RAM space which means more functionality.

The problem, of course, is that this conversion is relatively expensive. Figure on $95 for the conversion and then some dollar amount for the upgraded functionality. Maybe $175 would make sense as a V3 to V4 upgrade and you'd *have* to send us your ECU to do it.

So, given that, the obvious question is...how many people would actually be interested? People were VERY interested in many of the new things we added in V3. But now that that's out and working well, is there anything else people are really wanting? Let's hear some ideas!

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.
 
Please not version upgrades until I get to mess around with my V3 that's been here for half a year untouched LOL! I have no further comments but keep the informative videos coming though :thumb:
 
Dare I even suggest such a thing? :sneaky:

We've gotten a few question asking us what V4 is going to include now that V3 is out and working well. These are typically joking questions, but it does lead to some thought.

One of the biggest limiting factors on our ECUs is I/O and RAM space (internal working memory). We only have so many inputs and so many outputs. You can log wideband data and boost data and, depending on the ECU, one or two other things on the given pins. Many pins have special considerations too and if you're running a factory Mitsubishi mass airflow, you're limited even further because it steals two of the inputs you'd otherwise make good use of (IAT and baro).

And then there's the output side of things. We provide full "parameter"-ized, windowed control over the EGR and FPS outputs already and we'll add boost control via the WGS output soon enough. But there are plenty of situations where people would really like to have even more outputs to do things like drive external shift lights or trigger a separate knock warning LED or a coolant-temp warning LED, etc. But we're limited to what the factory ECU provides us.

And then there's the RAM space issue. This is more an internal restriction we're forced to deal with in terms of functionality we can add and how we can add it. But this certainly affects the end user too as we'd like to do a lot more cool stuff inside the ECU that we just can't right now (ECU auto-tune for example).

To address these issues, we're giving some thought to an entirely different hardware approach. For the non-EPROM 1G (and soon 2G) ECUs, we already have a conversion board that basically "hooks" into and intercepts the processor pins. From there, we can do a LOT of cool stuff we can't do out on the EPROM socket.

If we were to develop a similar board that worked on both non-EPROM and EPROM ECUs (basically removing the processor and installing a special board whether it's an EPROM ECU or not), we can do a lot more stuff. We can add more analog inputs for datalogging, digital inputs for external switches, digital outputs for various things, MUCH faster datalogging than we do now and more extended RAM space which means more functionality.

The problem, of course, is that this conversion is relatively expensive. Figure on $95 for the conversion and then some dollar amount for the upgraded functionality. Maybe $175 would make sense as a V3 to V4 upgrade and you'd *have* to send us your ECU to do it.

So, given that, the obvious question is...how many people would actually be interested? People were VERY interested in many of the new things we added in V3. But now that that's out and working well, is there anything else people are really wanting? Let's hear some ideas!

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

I'll be the first to say how great DSMLink is, but I think if you guys are going to make it in the market now with all of the other tuning options out there, especially for 2g cars, conversion prices and general startup cost, an initial price drop would be a good idea. You guys will always have business from the loyal DSM community that doesn't truely understand tuning, but with the things that are available with the 98-99 ECU's, they are just going to be getting more and more popular. The hard part is finding someone who REALLY knows what they are doing. I would like to see DSMLink come out with boost by gear and/or RPM for the FWD guys.
 
from the loyal DSM community that doesn't truly understand tuning
And plenty that fully understand it too. :)

but with the things that are available with the 98-99 ECU's, they are just going to be getting more and more popular.
Eh, I don't know. Maybe. They're going to be just as limited in the things I've mentioned here as we are. There are only so many I/O pins and RAM space is certainly more plentiful there, but getting *everything* into RAM is going to be hard.

I would like to see DSMLink come out with boost by gear and/or RPM for the FWD guys.
Yeah, that's the idea we're going to move towards on that. We can do that with V3, no problem. It's just a matter of finding time.

Thomas Dorris
 
Yes, definitely, videos are coming.

Thomas Dorris
 
And plenty that fully understand it too. :)

Thomas Dorris

Haha yes there are. The best thing you guys have I think is the DSMLink forum. The ability to post your log and get advice is priceless. Especially from the quality of people on there.
 
I would be very interested in these additional features! Very curious about the boost control via V3 too.
 
Very curious about the boost control via V3 too.
That's probably next on the list. Right now I'm wrapping up individual deadtimes (per cylinder deadtime control) and higher resolution deadtime (microsecond accuracy). These together really help dialing in those large injectors.

Once that's done and out for 1Gs and 2Gs, we'll move on to something else.

I just wish we had more time to focus on actual development. We could crank this stuff out like crazy if we could just do R&D all day long. As is, we're lucky to get an hour in per day. :(

Thomas Dorris
 
I don't know that the community as a whole would be interested in so many additional features. It already surpases anything else on the market and is on the topend of the cost for those still wanting to keep the stock ecu. Your taking on lower cost lesser option systems and then now you're going to take one AEM EMS which has a narrow market. You're better off dividing it up. You can buy V3 for $X and have all the current features that surpases anything else on the market for stock ecus. . . OR go balls to the wall with the daughterboard upgrade and all the other features for $Y and have ECMLink "Ultimate" or something similar in tone/name. . . Otherwise, everyone is going to say, "I don't need all that ecmlink 4 does. I just need fuel, timing, rev, and nitrous control, really." Now you're fighting only in the market where those that are looking at AEM EMS and the infinismal options it has. So you;re back to square one with a smaller market.

Point is, don't pull the rug from under yourself by attacking another market for potential revenue. . .
 
You're better off dividing it up.
Yeah, good point. I hadn't thought that through, but it definitely makes sense. We'd still have V3 and lite, but then also have a bells and whistle version too.

We certainly want to have options and give everyone what they actually need rather than a ton of stuff they don't. That was the idea behind lite, of course, and that's working out very well.

Thanks,

Thomas Dorris
 
I don't care what anyone else says ECMlink is the best!!!!! If its not the software that makes it the best(which in my opinion it does) then the customer service really puts these people over the top. They do so much for our DSM's and spend a lot of time on it. They are very nice people to work with and will do anything to help you out. About "V4" can't argue with faster logging but all the other things are just extra for me but I would purchase this just to contribute more to ECMlink. Would just like to say thanks TOM and please keep the videos comming awsome info and explains a lot.
 
The idea of the new version that enhances the non-eprom ECU is very interesting. The flashable method is not as user friendly as the DSMlink interface and this should be an advantage for the new V4. From a cost standpoint, the added price for V4 will be more than offset by 1) not having to purchase an eprom ecu (for non-eprom people) and all the added features. I am VERY interested in this!
 
The idea of the new version that enhances the non-eprom ECU is very interesting. The flashable method is not as user friendly as the DSMlink interface and this should be an advantage for the new V4. From a cost standpoint, the added price for V4 will be more than offset by 1) not having to purchase an eprom ecu (for non-eprom people) and all the added features. I am VERY interested in this!

Exactly what I was thinking!

This could get interesting.....:sneaky:
 
I'd be in depending on how much a whole v4 package would cost.
 
It would be nice if you can find away to use the stock o2 readings and make it as accurate as a wideband you managed to make it a little more accurate dont see why not make it as a wideband. Also an auto tune option would be nice for example something that would allow us to just input a certain air fuel ratio and have the ecu do the rest or tell us what to change in order to achieve it
 
i am pro for V4 it would give the people in the DSM community more then just these expensive EMS's to look into, i myself would be interested =)
 
I'm all for further development of this product, as it means a continuing involvement with DSM's which can only help to encourage others that this is still a viable platform (if there are any doubters out there LOL). However, I would think that "V4" would have a pretty narrow audience when promoted as a tuning device aimed only at the DSM platform, as I figure most users can get everything they need out of even V3Lite. However, as seen with the member who's using a 1g ECU as a standalone in his Volvo, you may have the opportunity to promote this new version as a standalone, thereby casting a wider net as it were. Detach it from DSM's brand-wise (for the wider audience), add all the functionality you are considering, and you'll probably have a fairly cost effective competitor to AEM EMS for a variety of platforms.
 
I just got V3 Lite (and thanks for fixing the sensor ground) and love it, mind i havent had a good chance to really adjust but since the car is stock and well, it helps but not at this point.

I would go to V4 with no questions asked. Every email i sent to you guys, i got an answer from with tips or links to check things out. Always on top of your game and customer service is barn none on the top for Dsm Customers.

so yeah, as long as i know that "V4" is in the works, i'll wait to upgrade, so you can count me in.

Chuck
 
I for one would buy it without question. Makes me wish I didn't sell my standard ECU to Tom. :p
 
It would be nice if you can find away to use the stock o2 readings and make it as accurate as a wideband
This isn't how a narrow-band O2 sensor works, unfortunately. It's not just a matter of it having less resolution, it's the fact that almost the entire usable resolution range of a narrowband O2 sensor is dedicated to reading at or near 14.7:1.

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See how almost the entire usable output range of the sensor (0-1V) is centered around 14.7:1, with only a few mV of range dedicated to other values?

On top of that, OEM oxygen sensors have calibration drift with temperature:

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As you can see, it'll read 14.7:1 just fine, but anything outside of that range can't be trusted.
 
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As many have said, V3 includes so many options that will probably cover 90% of the market.... getting your development money may never happen.

With that being said some ideas I have would be selling custom gauges that are powered off the new outputs you are proposing. You could use gauges that are multifunction and you can toggle what the gauge displays. I know there are dedicated multifunction gauges, but its just an idea. If you have more inputs for more sensors such as oil temp, EGT, pre intercooler temp, post intercooler temps, pre-turbine pressure, etc you can have those logged or displayed on generic gauges that would probably be very easy for you guys to scale. You could also come up with simple algorithms based on what sensors you have to display intercooler efficiency in a log.
 
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