Vetal said:

Hello to everyone. This is my first post here. My question is: is it possible to upgrade Evo III 16G turbo? On a budget, preferably. I have it on my Nissan 1.8, trap about 114mph, and I think I've run out of turbo. Is it possible to upgrade compressor to give me some 10 lbs/min more? otherwise I would have to fab new manifold, get HX35, etc.
Thank you!

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Unfortunately, there's not much more available in the MHI platform. You can go to something with a 20G compressor and pick up some additional airflow, but not 10 lb/min.

A HX35 or something like a BW / Bullseye S256/258 would be the next step I'd take. Both of these turbos have available DSM bolt-on turbine housings, but neither will perform at it's best with an internal wastegate.

I believe you can still send it in to Forced Performance and have them put in the HTA Wheel they now offer for EVO III 16gs

Might not fit within your "Budget" but its a hell of a turbo.
Price should be cheaper than their new price so i'd look into that.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/...duct_Code=NTDSMFP68HTA&Category_Code=Turbo-FP

Granted its a 2.3 Stroker and Auto... English Racing went 10.3 @129mph with it
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Friend-O said:

The E3-16G is a direct bolt on for the DSM. Depending on what boost level you plan to run will determine what other mods you will need to do to do that safely, but for a direct replacement of the 14b or t-25 you cant beat it. While it shines at 20+psi, until you get your fuel mods in and a nice fmic it will work just fine as a bigger option. You probably wont notice the lag as they spool fast which is why they are the ultimate street turbo.

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Wow u didn't even get close to answering what he asked. He wanted yo know of he could upgrade the compressor on his 16g. He is trapping 114mph meaning he has all his supporting mods.

Vetal said:

otherwise I would have to fab new manifold, get HX35, etc.
Thank you!

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You could get the Bullseye Performance housing so an HX35 would bolt up to your existing manifold.

DSM_PWR said:

send it in to Forced Performance and have them put in the HTA Wheel they now offer for EVO III 16gs

English Racing went 10.3 @129mph with it

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Same car went 10.6 with an off-the-shelf Evo III 16G, so the HTA 68 isn't the magical part of that combination.

It IS an impressive full bolt-on DSM turbo; glad to see FP still making advancements in turbocharger technology for cars that are 11+ years old.
Not sure if it would be worth the OP's while to pay $300+ for the HTA upgrade, though.


O.P.- what boost level are you running with your Evo III, and what airflow are you seeing at that boost level?

Thanx for suggestions guys.
Regarding Bullseye Performance housing and HX35 - is it worth extra $250? I read spool-up is better, but how much? I could just change flange on my current manifold and put stock HX35 on... Or I could spend couple of weeks and build twin-scroll manifold, again for stock HX35.
That FP 68HTA looks OK too, for $850, 47lbs/min is a bit better than Evo III. If I could sell my Evo 3 16G for decent money, I could go for 68HTA...
jusmx141, I run 1.45bar with my 1.8 Nissan. Upping boost further gets me no substantial HP gains, that's why I suspect turbo is on it's limit. Strange though that I trap only 114mph on 2950lbs car, although best mph with this turbo is not far, about 120mph.
It's not DSM so I can't tell what airflow do I get

Friend-O said:

The E3-16G is a direct bolt on for the DSM. Depending on what boost level you plan to run will determine what other mods you will need to do to do that safely, but for a direct replacement of the 14b or t-25 you cant beat it. While it shines at 20+psi, until you get your fuel mods in and a nice fmic it will work just fine as a bigger option. You probably wont notice the lag as they spool fast which is why they are the ultimate street turbo.

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Are you drunk? That didn't even come close to answering any of his questions.

BTW do you guys have some form of variable valve timing on DSMs? So that I know how much later my 1.8 with no VVT will spool same turbos as on the graphs I see here

Vetal said:

BTW do you guys have some form of variable valve timing on DSMs?

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Nope.

$850 for a turbo that's going to give u 10lb/min more airflow is not a good buy. U could find a hx35 for around $250 rebuilt. It will flow a little better and spool quick.

That used Holsets HX35 that are on Ebay from Dodge 5.9 diesel - are they the ones that should be used? Or do I need to change some parts on them (not talking about rebuild now) for it to be a good turbo on 4-cyl?

I see most of ebay turbos are HX35W, part # 3590104

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hols...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HOLS...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

All this Talk and blabber... Can anyone show me a video of an HX35 going 10.3...

Anyone??


...


Anyone..??


Exactly.

TSimage said:

All this Talk and blabber... Can anyone show me a video of an HX35 going 10.3...

Anyone??


...


Anyone..??


Exactly.

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no thread crapping please. its a 500 plus hp turbo so I don't see why not.

TSimage said:

All this Talk and blabber... Can anyone show me a video of an HX35 going 10.3...

Anyone??


...


Anyone..??


Exactly.

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Please don't start this debate here too. I cannot run faster that 12.8@114mph with my Evo3 16G - so what, does it mean it is 200whp turbo?

Try filling out your profile so that we know what supporting mods you have for this E316g.

Filled. Don't think it would be very useful as it's not DSM though

Yea, but if we get an idea of what you have done to your engine, someone might be able to give you a clearer answer.

Try upgrading your injectors and up the boost. I would recomend at least 660's if you want to use the turbo for it's petential.

Dewayne Waldron said:

Yea, but if we get an idea of what you have done to your engine, someone might be able to give you a clearer answer.

Try upgrading your injectors and up the boost. I would recomend at least 660's if you want to use the turbo for it's petential.

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Injectors are at 85% so it's not the problem.
Upping the boost does not give me any more HP, maybe 5HP for eztra 2-3psi. Thus I think turbo is at limit.

There's no way that turbo is at it's limit unless there is something going on with it.

OP, do you have a knock sensor and a way to monitor it? What type of fuel are you using, and it's octane? Can you control timing ignition timing, and have you played with it if so?

I can run about 1.9bar at my altitude (6000ft) on US 91octane gasoline without knocking, on the same turbo. At your altitude (sea level), that's about equal to the 1.45bar you are running. It could be that if you have a knock sensor, which retards timing when it sees knock, it is retarding timing and creating a false ceiling so to speak. On e85 (85%ethanol/15%gas) I can increase timing advance, run the turbo up to 2.4bar (again, at 6000ft) and still see substantial gains over gasoline levels without incurring any knock.

Dewayne Waldron - why not? Is 114mph trap at 3000lbs too far out for Evo3 16G??

matthewdesigns said:

OP, do you have a knock sensor and a way to monitor it? What type of fuel are you using, and it's octane? Can you control timing ignition timing, and have you played with it if so?

I can run about 1.9bar at my altitude (6000ft) on US 91octane gasoline without knocking, on the same turbo. At your altitude (sea level), that's about equal to the 1.45bar you are running. It could be that if you have a knock sensor, which retards timing when it sees knock, it is retarding timing and creating a false ceiling so to speak. On e85 (85%ethanol/15%gas) I can increase timing advance, run the turbo up to 2.4bar (again, at 6000ft) and still see substantial gains over gasoline levels without incurring any knock.

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Yes ignition and fuelling are optimized, ignition doesn't get retarded. So I suspect turbo is maxxed because upping boost doesn't give any more HP. I recently changed intake cam to slightly "larger" with not much gain.

Are these turbos good? 780$ (without WG though) for 600HP DSM-style turbo seems too good
Bullseye Power TD04B 57 Trim Bolt On Mitsu Turbocharger
or even this
Bullseye Power TD04B 50 Trim Bolt On Mitsu Turbocharger

Is it possible to buy BEP Mitsu-style housing for HX35? I contacted Timsturbos but they said Bullseye doesn't make them anymore with internal WGs. Housings have ports but no flappers. So how then I could run HX35 on DSM manifold with no port for external wastegate? Maybe it is possible to put Holset WG with flapper on these BEP housings??

I'm surprised to hear that they aren't available internally gated anymore. There is a flapper kit on the TimsTurbos site on page 8, so maybe it fits the housing if you want to keep it internal? And you ought to be able to incorporate the Holset actuator with some modification.

Or, you can run an external wastegate off the o2 housing, or weld up the WG port in the turbine housing and run an external off the exhaust manifold.

I can't comment on the turbos, as I have no experience with them.

TSimage said:

All this Talk and blabber... Can anyone show me a video of an HX35 going 10.3...

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Right, because everyone runs 10.6's with Evo III 16G's these days.

I suppose he could always bolt on a PTE 6262 or FP 3586 and be guaranteed a low 9 / high 8.

Vetal said:

Is it possible to buy BEP Mitsu-style housing for HX35? I contacted Timsturbos but they said Bullseye doesn't make them anymore with internal WGs.

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They're still available through Bullseye but they cost a little more- Bullseye has given up on drilling every housing for the actuator provison so now it's a special addition which would require an additional fee.

Some good pics of the available housings and setups here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/363362-holset-picture-thread.html#post152132192

matthewdesigns said:

I'm surprised to hear that they aren't available internally gated anymore. There is a flapper kit on the TimsTurbos site on page 8, so maybe it fits the housing if you want to keep it internal? And you ought to be able to incorporate the Holset actuator with some modification.

Or, you can run an external wastegate off the o2 housing, or weld up the WG port in the turbine housing and run an external off the exhaust manifold.

I can't comment on the turbos, as I have no experience with them.

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Sorry I don't get this - what does it mean "run wastegate off O2 housing"? O2 housing is AFTER turbine, right? so how can it divert gases?
For now I want to find option that would allow me to run smth. bigger (like HX35) with my current DSM manifold. It doesn't have WG port, and I have fabbed nice downpipe with divorced internal WG pipe, so I'd like to keep this setup. I was ready to order BEP housing but now I don't understand how and what flapper/WG to put on it...