5 and a half hours to do an intake manifold gasket???

bmob01 · Mar 19, 2010

Hey, I just got my car back from the shop (couldn't figure out what was wrong with it) and they replaced the intake mani gasket and throttle body gasket. Now before I brought it in, I sprayed starter fluid around the gasket and it didn't affect my idle at all. With that aside, they want $514.41 for their work

. They said it took 5 and a half hours to do... (and I gave them a brand new intake mani to put on instead of the old one so they didn't have to remove the old gasket from the old one). This sorta sounds crazy to take that long. I understand the fuel rail needs to come out but 5.5 hours for a professional shop where they know what there doing? Any ideas if this is accurate before I talk to the shop?

UPDATE!! THOSE THIEVING MOTHER !@#$ERS!!!!!!!

So the exact time was 5.5 hours, and my bill was $574. OK I'm a little upset, but I can live with it. I get my keys, get into my car and drive off. Just as I made it 1/4 a mile it bogged down, backfired, and was exactly the same as before! I had a feeling they were complete idiots! I told them exactly what was up, and how it ran perfect b4 I took the CAI off. I told them it wouldn't run at first, but once I moved some vacuum lines around it ran. NO THESE IDIOTS WASTED MY TIME AND MONEY!!! Then I asked them what they were going to to. They said they would look further and give me an estimate. An ESTIMATE?!?! YOU JUST PROCLAIMED MY CAR FIXED AND YOUR GOING TO CHARGE ME MORE MONEY?!?! I was lividly screaming when there was a room full of customers (had to be more than 8, and one left when I was yelling ). After I calmed down, I remembered some things I learned in business law. I smiled and left, went to the local court and got small claims papers. Now filing a suit.

awdtalon21 · Mar 19, 2010

Ya that sounds pretty crazy should not take near 5 hours, maybe around 2 and 500$ is outrageous imo.

matthewdesigns · Mar 19, 2010

That's got to be straight book rate, which they are going to charge...that's how shops make money. Charge book rate and do it in a third of the time LOL

.

I R&R'd the intake manifold on my car, had never done it before, took my time so I didn't screw anything up, and it took me about 2.5 hrs. I can't imagine a N/T motor would be any worse than a turbo one. You ought to give it a shot, it's not that difficult...just a bunch of bolts/nuts.

GsXdSmKingGsX · Mar 19, 2010

Thats freakin crazy but theres no way you can prove that it didnt take that long.

brian9397gsx · Mar 19, 2010

doesnt matter how long it takes to do they go by book time. ie what it should take to do. myself and alot of guys i work with never come close to book time on most jobs. it all becomes routine you get fast you get good thats how you make money when your a flat rate mechanic.

tallywacker · Mar 19, 2010

Save the money next time and drive down to PA and I'll do it for a case of beer.

bmob01 · Mar 19, 2010

its not the fact that I couldn't do it. I had a vacuum leak somewhere and searched about 2 days for the problem. I am a patient person, but I have never been this fed up. I tested the intake and throttle body but they said they both needed to be replaced :notgood:

. Not to mention 4 of my close friends work at this garage and I used to trust them. I almost thing that It was a quick vacuum leak fix and since they saw some rtv on the back of the manifold they wanted more $$... Now I am all for supporting my local businesses, but I'm the customer and they work for me, so since they bit the hand that fed them, they won't get my food anymore.

Update: I argued with the manager and showed him 2 quotes from competitive garages for almost $120 less. I also showed him how 1 unsatisfied customer affects 10 future customers. They didn't seem to care. So now my goal is to alert as many people as possible

. Ill post a pic of the bill in a couple minutes.

If my car ran id be happy to go to PA with a case or 2 of beer. Maybe I'll get a keg when it comes time to do the clutch :thumb:

tallywacker · Mar 19, 2010

bmob01 said:
its not the fact that I couldn't do it. I had a vacuum leak somewhere and searched about 2 days for the problem. I am a patient person, but I have never been this fed up. I tested the intake and throttle body but they said they both needed to be replaced. Not to mention 4 of my close friends work at this garage and I used to trust them. I almost thing that It was a quick vacuum leak fix and since they saw some rtv on the back of the manifold they wanted more $$... Now I am all for supporting my local businesses, but I'm the customer and they work for me, so since they bit the hand that fed them, they won't get my food anymore.

Update: I argued with the manager and showed him 2 quotes from competitive garages for almost $120 less. I also showed him how 1 unsatisfied customer affects 10 future customers. They didn't seem to care. So now my goal is to alert as many people as possible . Ill post a pic of the bill in a couple minutes.

If my car ran id be happy to go to PA with a case or 2 of beer. Maybe I'll get a keg when it comes time to do the clutch

Should have payed one of those good buddies to do it then. Next time just tear it apart yourself and you won't have to worry about overcharging dbags again :thumb:

LiquidX · Mar 19, 2010

I'll come along for the clutch as well. I never changed one yet but hey, a keg of beer sounds good to me

and another set of hands is always good :thumb:

918dsm · Mar 19, 2010

tallywacker said:
Should have payed one of those good buddies to do it then. Next time just tear it apart yourself and you won't have to worry about overcharging dbags again

I definetly agree with you on this one. It's an easy job and only takes an hour or so, i would of saved my money and done it for the $30 price of the gasket

jestoy7 · Mar 19, 2010

The intake mani on a 420a is a PITA! I swapped mine out in my old GS years ago for a powdercoated one and it took a long time as well. The 420a tilts to the back a little in the 2g engine bay and it makes it very difficult. IIRC, there is also the fuild reservoir back there. If you go through all that trouble, also replace your heater core hoses as they are easy access without the intake mani and its a cheap maintenance thing.

KKneipper · Mar 19, 2010

I used to work at a shop, and they do go by book rate. Every shop does this. Unfortunately, book rate is based upon a mechanic who's never done the job before going off of the shop manual for reference. intake manifold isn't a super easy job, but shouldn't take anywhere near 5 hours. Sounds to me like the guy working on it was going out for a smoke every 15 minutes. Either that, or they had 3 guys working on it (probably training) and they charged you hourly labor times 3.

That is exactly why i do all my work myself. Because 100 bucks for the right tools for any job is still a lot less than what shops are going to charge. And then you'll have the tools for next time. Or when a buddy needs some work done.

92rsAWD4me · Mar 19, 2010

Yeah you have to be really specific before hand as far as what you are willing to pay for without notification. When I couldn't find my idle issue I took it to a shop for a $90 diagnostic inspection which the shop said would take about 1-2 hours and they could tell me exactly what I needed to fix and what it would cost. 4 hours later I get a call from the guy who says "Your car is running great, bring $550 with you and you can take it home" after a few thousand cuss words and some smart a$$ remarks I ended up paying the guy $150 for 4 hours of work and a few random parts.. Cant blame em for wanting to make money you just gotta be careful.

bmob01 · Mar 19, 2010

yeah you can't blame anyone for wanting to make money. The difference is I'm blaming them for the way they make their money. Imagine a garage that actually charged for the actual time spent. This place is open 24/7 7 days a week. They have good business because they do a good job and supposed to be honest. Go figure most of their reputation is from those who don't know how to change their own oil, let alone fill their windsheild washer fluid

BlackMount · Mar 19, 2010

Thats why I do everything Myself, and don't let shops touch my cars.

You should try it sometime.

david-b · Mar 19, 2010

The 420a mani is a PITA. Especially those brackets that mount to the back of the block. 5 hours worth? No. But you did take it to a shop and they can charge basically what they want for labor. Case of beer makes every job easier.

bmob01 · Mar 19, 2010

BlackMount said:
Thats why I do everything Myself, and don't let shops touch my cars.

You should try it sometime.

yeah I typically do everything myself as well, but this had me frustrated beyond belief, and my friends that worked their said one of the guys that works there deals with these problems all the time and would fix it in a heartbeat. Looks like that heartbeat not only costs a lot of $$ but takes a long time too. almost a week to get this thing done. I can't say much though I did make the mistake on going there

tristanmb81 · Mar 19, 2010

wow! 5 bills wou;d piss me off.

Indian · Mar 19, 2010

Hey look at it this way...Back when I knew nothing about cars,a shop charged me 80 dollars in labor to drain the coolant,and 40 dollars to change the spark plugs. Then he charged me a grand to change the clutch. He just took it out and went full throttle. By the time the 500 mile break in period came along,the disc was already glazed.

JusMX141 · Mar 19, 2010

I've had situations where I spent over an hour removing old gasket material from cases on Motocross bikes I used to build. It was horrible because the flanges were so thin you couldn't use a Roloc disc for fear of distorting the case, so literally hours were spent shaving a little off at a time with a razor blade.

I'm sure my customers didn't like their bills when it came time to pay, but I don't like to work for free, either....although I do agree $500+ for an intake manifold gasket on a 4-cylinder is a bit exaggerated.

MrBoxx · Mar 19, 2010

Did you take it in knowing that you needed the intake manifold gasket replaced and give them the idea that you wanted the job done regardless of cost?

At my shop, we give estimates before work is completed and we make sure the customer is aware that $XXX.XX is what you're going to have to pay for the job. If the customer doesn't like the price, they're free to shop around and get other estimates. If they don't care, then we have them sign the estimate, then we do the work. That way, we don't get situations like this where the customer comes back and says "Well I didn't know it was going to be that much."

By the way, book rate can work in your favor as well. A job may only call for an hour and a half of labor, such as a wheel bearing, but as well know DSM wheel bearings call for a torch, a press, the hammer of Thor, and fourteen gorillas to get off, but you're still only going to get charged for an hour and a half, even though the job itself took 14 hours.

92EagleAWD · Mar 19, 2010

MrBoxx said:
Did you take it in knowing that you needed the intake manifold gasket replaced and give them the idea that you wanted the job done regardless of cost?

At my shop, we give estimates before work is completed and we make sure the customer is aware that $XXX.XX is what you're going to have to pay for the job. If the customer doesn't like the price, they're free to shop around and get other estimates. If they don't care, then we have them sign the estimate, then we do the work. That way, we don't get situations like this where the customer comes back and says "Well I didn't know it was going to be that much."

By the way, book rate can work in your favor as well. A job may only call for an hour and a half of labor, such as a wheel bearing, but as well know DSM wheel bearings call for a torch, a press, the hammer of Thor, and fourteen gorillas to get off, but you're still only going to get charged for an hour and a half, even though the job itself took 14 hours.

Yeah, x2. thats the same way we do business, but honestly , the mechanic working on your car doesnt make $500 for that job, he makes way less than half that. What my friends do is get a quote for the costs to fix something and pay me half of the quote to do it. I just did a timing belt on a 4G63A for $100, but the only reason i did it that cheap is because its a DSM and it only took me 2 hours to do. But he was going to pay me $300. I bet if you get a quote and ask one of the mechanics if they will do it on the side for half the quote they will do it. Just saying, people ask me all the time.

MrBoxx · Mar 19, 2010

92EagleAWD said:
I bet if you get a quote and ask one of the mechanics if they will do it on the side for half the quote they will do it. Just saying, people ask me all the time.

Two technicians at two seperate stores have been fired in the past month for telling a customer that if they were to contact the technician at home, the tech would do it for them there cheaper than they would do it at the shop.

Just saying... it's a good way to get someone fired.

redyute1 · Mar 19, 2010

MrBoxx said:
Two technicians at two seperate stores have been fired in the past month for telling a customer that if they were to contact the technician at home, the tech would do it for them there cheaper than they would do it at the shop.

Just saying... it's a good way to get someone fired.

So right about that,i work at a shop i get 50% on labor charged,like Mrboxx said i dont know how you did not receive an estimate before any work was done,if the customer come to the shop for an estimate there is no way i would go against the shop and do it cheaper.I believe that is disrespect,this is where i make my living.Good example customer came in 04 Ford ranger 4x4 clutch job,according to all data labor was 5.6 hrs $70.00 an hour,i usually round it off so i told him 6 hrs which is $420.00 he had his own parts.Can you imagine it took me three whole days to finish,did the clutch in one day ,took me two days to bleed out all the air in the system,guess what the shop will only get paid 6 hrs not one penny more,ond for those wondering why it took so long,well if you are a tech by profession and done a couple rangers you would know.where i make fast money brakes 1 hour labor do it in 15 minutes,so yeah my point is i just dont understand why you were not informed of the cost before the job was done

MrBoxx · Mar 19, 2010

redyute1 said:
for those wondering why it took so long,well if you are a tech by profession and done a couple rangers you would know.

Hydraulic throw out bearing. We did one last year. The "quick-disconnect" was anything but quick, since the plastic was all deteriorated. Took us the better part of 2 hours to get that off, let alone line up the trans again and get the shift pattern right.

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5 and a half hours to do an intake manifold gasket???

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