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How to Build a reliable dsm ?

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dark at night

Probationary Member
6
0
Feb 16, 2010
Ozark, Missouri
I am sick of getting my mustang stuck in the snow, so I believe that I am going to purchase a gsx or tsi. I know dsm has a tendency to break, but I dont plan on hot rodding it to much, but we all know how that changesROFL. So I want to know what should I do to make it reliable. I want to know what goes first and what should I look for? Im assuming the manuals are a little better for lasting longer.
 
Maintanence, If not that then a proper stock rebuild or with mixed combos for those little bumps in power and fortification i.e: 2g pistons-1g rod combo.
Just dont ignore your dsm when it comes to maintanence, and dont put it off to the last minute and you should be good.
 
I hate it when people say these cars are unreliable. All cars break down that is a fact. Problem with the DSM is there cheap cars to buy and alot of younger people get there hands on them and beat the living crap out of them and get mad when something breaks down and post it all over the internet.

Respect the car and maintain it like it should be maintained and you should be golden. Like stated earlier find a bone stock one.

I am not saying everyone who gets these cars dogs them but most do. And there are times when some failures cannot be avoided.

I would venture though to say that 90% of all DSM breakdowns are from user error.

The car was made to be a sporty alternative to what was available in the day and for superior traction(AWD) in adverse conditions.

Also once you get a AWD car you will be hooked and your mustang will probably be sold. There just addicting and the traction is always a plus!

It's ok to beat on a car everynow and then but it also needs to be taken care of. when the timing belt gives out at 100k miles dont blame the car. follow the recommended service intervals, they are there for a reason.
 
I hate people who say that DSM's are unreliable, replace the timing belt and all other MAINTENANCE items, just like you SHOULD on any other car, and your car WILL RUN FOREVER. My first eclipse NEVER LET ME DOWN, and it went through hell. But i still took care of it, oil changes, fuel filters, etc. Now my other eclipse is sitting outside of my house broken, BUT i bought it broken, from some ricer kid, who slapped on all these mods, and did it all without a tune, ran it stupid rich, and tore up the bottom end. Did i mention all the hacking i have had to fix? If you own a DSM and you think its unreliable after YOU modded it, then sell it and buy a civic, you dont deserve a DSM.
 
...I know dsm has a tendency to break...

Don't go into it thinking like that.

My car currently has 234,000 miles on it. I've owned it since 192,000 miles. It's left me on the side of the road once because I ignored a squealing timing belt and it finally broke.

These motors will take a beating. As long as you generally follow the upgrade path
Tech Guide - DSMtuners
you won't have any problems. The biggest thing is maintenance. As it has already been said before, most of these cars have had the living hell beat out of them because they are cheap, fast cars. If you decide to buy one, it's probably safe to assume most of the maintenance was ignored. Too many Fast and Furious teens got their hands on these.

Before you start modifying the car, get all the maintenance done first. I've owned my car for 3 years. The first year was spent all on maintenance, as was most of the second. I could have done it all pretty quickly, but I was working on a college student budget. Now, after finally getting all the maintenance up-to-date, I've finally started dropping some money on the fun stuff.

It's kinda funny how many V8 diehards now own DSMs.

...Im assuming the manuals are a little better for lasting longer.
Not really. The automatic transmissions will take quite a beating in stock form. The overdrive isn't the strongest, but there's a updated end clutch pack to fix that. There's also a shift kit to firm up the shifts. If you decided on a large turbo, there are restalled converters. The autos are really underrated.
 
"I hate it when people say these cars are unreliable. All cars break down that is a fact. Problem with the DSM is there cheap cars to buy and alot of younger people get there hands on them and beat the living crap out of them and get mad when something breaks down and post it all over the internet.

Respect the car and maintain it like it should be maintained and you should be golden. Like stated earlier find a bone stock one.

I am not saying everyone who gets these cars dogs them but most do. And there are times when some failures cannot be avoided.

I would venture though to say that 90% of all DSM breakdowns are from user error.

The car was made to be a sporty alternative to what was available in the day and for superior traction(AWD) in adverse conditions.

Also once you get a AWD car you will be hooked and your mustang will probably be sold. There just addicting and the traction is always a plus!

It's ok to beat on a car everynow and then but it also needs to be taken care of. when the timing belt gives out at 100k miles dont blame the car. follow the recommended service intervals, they are there for a reason."


1+ couldn't have said it better myself
 
What it boils down to is: don't be cheap with it. Just like every car known to man. It's just that DSM's can go fast for cheap and then people think that tranfers over to everything. No true.
 
Also. Some owners will say that it has had this and that done, unless you see actual service records and receipts then assume it wasnt done. Alot of people will lie to you and tell you "O yeah i put a timing belt on it 500 miles ago" and without the proof you honestly will never know.
Whenever I buy a DSM the first place I go is to the timing belt regardless if it has been replaced or not.

I just dont trust people nowadays, they will do anything to make a quick sale and cover up anything they can.
 
Hehe,

if you want to have a really reliable AWD DSM so buy a proper GSX or TSI AWD with low mileage and a service book… then put the fu***ng turbo stuff out of it and rebuild the 4G63 engine to a non-turbo with cyclone and EUDM non-turbo pistons. And put some other stuff on it like a proper oil-cooler and so on.

You will end up with an indestructible AWD DSM… You can run the engine with maximum power up to a whole hour without getting any trouble with the engine. Of Course you only getting something about 150-160 HP… but that’s the price for real reliability. ;)

You can build a proper turbo too. But the danger of failure is much higher.

Sören
 
Hehe,

if you want to have a really reliable AWD DSM so buy a proper GSX or TSI AWD with low mileage and a service book... then put the fu***ng turbo stuff out of it and rebuild the 4G63 engine to a non-turbo with cyclone and EUDM non-turbo pistons. And put some other stuff on it like a proper oil-cooler and so on.

You will end up with an indestructible AWD DSM... You can run the engine with maximum power up to a whole hour without getting any trouble with the engine. Of Course you only getting something about 150-160 HP... but that's the price for real reliability. ;)

You can build a proper turbo too. But the danger of failure is much higher.

Sören


Go give advice somewhere else. A 4g63t is already indestructable.:notgood:
 
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what about people replacing head gaskets without getting the head cut . they like to get warm as is. timing belt , head gasket , gear oil (5 spd) good gas , from a gas station not a sandwitch shop slash coffe house
 
Listen up to what people are saying.
go buy new belts and get them put on. Get the belts FROM THE DEALER, they make the best belts.
Empty and refill all fluids including the cooling system. Use synthetic oils. For Tranny fluid go to a GM dealer and get GM syncromesh. it works the best.
Have the dealer check VIN for any recalls.
And have some fun with it man.
 
My friend ran 22 lbs of boost on a 1 owner dsm for 3 years daily. At 174k a piston ring finally let go. Pretty reliable if you ask me. If you keep your t belts up to date an check your transmission an t case fluids once in a while an change the oil every 3000 it will last. I daily mine because my 300z is down. Go figure, an nissan is supposed to be reliable.
 
ok well since the other 15000 people said the exact same thing over and over except for dude saying get rid of the turbo. tard but anyways just get a stock one and keep it that way and it will be as reliable as your stang. im a v8 guy to but i lovelove love my dsm's. so just keep it stock and mantainced and your golden.its only unreliable if your lazy and a cheap ass.
 
For people who do all their own work, there are "tricks" that can help you out a ton: some issues specific to DSM's that you probably wouldn't encounter elsewhere:

-Boost leaks: the DSM runs on a MAF airflow sensor, extremely reliable, long lasting, and accurate; however if there is a leak, anywhere, the car will run like crap, look into boost leak testers, they are easy to make.

-Old DSM's will have the Throttle body seals go out, they are like $1 from NAPA or your local parts store, they are just generic rubber o-rings, you can use american sizes or metric, just hand the old seals (or disassembled throtle body shaft) to the counter guy and he will find you the right parts.

-If you have a 1990, you will need to upgrade to the 91-94 throttle body (or NA throttle body) because the 1990 model year did a lot of things differently and the replacement parts are not easy to find anymore

-the 1989-1992.5 6-bolt is indestructable, so long as there is oil pressure and coolant, it is a 500HP engine, rev the sh*t out of it

-Timing belt: have someone local replace(to learn) it if you see cracks in it; inspect monthly, bent valves suck, but usually if you bend your valves, just replace the head with a junkyard unit, the pistons 99% of the time survive (please, nobody start talking about about hot spots, they don't exist as far as i am concerned, I run messed up pistons all the time, no worries)

-replace exhaust manifold studs(9 of them) with factory ones FOR THE LOVE OF GOD this is important, some will break, use a M8x1.25 helicoil repair kit if you cannot extract bolts, bring to a shop if necessary, on some studs that will not unscrew and have not broken, I weld a nut to the stud, cherry hot, and then extract, I have easily put 50ft-lbs of force to remove these f*ucking things....Also the extreme heat helps break the the stud free after you weld a nut to it.

-starting with the introduction of the 7-bolt (1992.5-1999 and all evo's) the outer exhaust manifold studs (m8x1.25)were replaced with m10x1.25, these have never failed on me, nor have I had to replace them ever, however a 2G manifold cracked on me because the studs wouldn't give.

-All DSM 7-bolt heads bolt onto 6-bolt bottom ends (you have to drill the head bolt/stud holes to 1/2" in order to make it fit, you can do this with a hand drill, not rocket science), the 1995+ 7-bolt head has smaller import ports, and requires different intake manifolds.

-Exhaust manifold-to-turbo bolts (4 of them) (M10x1.25) will FAIL and BREAK OFF IN TURBO if you FAIL to bolt the Exhaust to the bracket that is bolted on the block. Explanition: when you rev the crap out of the engine, bounce off the rev limiter, down shift, whatever, the engine shakes back and forth an couple inches...on a stock car this is fine, because the exhaust is bolted to the block, but most people who upgrade exhaust or repair/replace turbo fail to replace this bolt and they are plagued by broken turbo bolts over and over and over again and they WONDER WHY- When you superheat hardware and then put multiple dimentions of stress on the bolts, they will FAIL, and it SUCKS drilling the bolts out. I have actually upgraded some of my customer's turbos to M12x1.25 bolts (stock head bolt size (HEX)) these never fail regardless if you bolt up said bolt, but do it anyways.

-SWEET JESUS LISTEN UP HERE: alignment dowels, best thing in the world if used, if removed, enjoy extreme failure.

There are 8 that are important:
-2x in between cylinder head and block, if head is warm from being inside and the rest of the car is cold because its Minnesota, the head might not drop on because of the pegs. (metal expands and contracts with different temperature, so if you put a warm head on a cold block, pegs will actually prevent the thing from being installed, very frustrating, DO NOT FORCE IT, let head and block normalize with temperature, then try re-installing. If you send your block off to the machine shop to get resurfaced it is easy to forget to re-install the pegs, you must install the pegs in the BLOCK, not into the HEAD, If you install into the head, during installation the pegs will slide into the had 100% and not perform their job properly. I had to do a headgasket because of this, the peg was totally inside the head. Probably beacuse they gave up and inserted one peg in head and the other in block, pressed together and thought they were good.
-2x in between transmission and block, you may actually ruin your crank if you don't have these, never seen what happens if you don't have these pengs.
-2x in between transfer case and transmission
-2x in between oil pump and block.

-Only use the 6-bolt engine, yeah I hear that if you "build" a 7-bolt properly that is actually stronger then a 6-bolt, yeah, whatever, my stock 200,000 mile 6-bolt dynoed 465 AWHP, so die in a fire, the 6-bolt rocks....stock, never rebult anything.

-If you ever have the head off the car, lap the valves, its fun and easy, also improves compressoin, google it, its easy with the right tools.

-Your oil filer will spin off and you will ruin your engine if you don't change it often, the rubber gasket is the critical coponent here....Now if you use a mitsubishi OEM oil filter, you can leave it on forever without worrying about it failing, because it uses an o-ring to seal, and metal-on-metal connectoin to stop it from spinning off, at first I didnt believe what people were saying online, but USE OEM OIL FILTERS, they are like $5 each.

-All 1989-1993? ECU's will fail from capacitor leaks eventually, yes, even in 2010 they are failing..

-idle issues: I hear about this a lot, there are 3 components for idling to work:
1.Idle switch (on throttle body for 1G's and INSIDE the TPS for 2G's, if you swap a 6-bolt into your 2G make sure to use the 2G TPS!!!!!!!!!!)
2.IAC (www.dsmisc.com) a bad (old) IAC will not only fail, but DAMAGE your ECU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. ECU IAC drivers, if they are blown, they will not be able to control the IAC even if you buy a new IAC, thankfully, one damages the other but not the other way around, a bad ECU can't kill a good IAC, but a bad IAC WILL kill (damage) your ECU. keydiver replaces the IAC drivers, look the man up.

-Knock sensors go bad, REPLACE THEM IF THEY LOOK OLD, it is the ECU's feedback on if the amount of timing is OK, you will MELT YOUR ENGINE if it is not getting proper feedback.

-Transmission/Drivetrain - Save up, have SHEP/TRE rebuild it, AWD transmissoins are abused like a red-headed stepchild, they wear out and you cannot expect them to live forever. I have my own press, I rebuild my own transmissions, but this is because I have been doing this for 10 years. IF YOU HAVE A 1990, THROW IT AWAY, get a 91-99 Transmission and appropiate shifter cables/shifter assy, or talk to shepherd, he will explain why the 1990 model year kinda sucks for transmissinos/transfercases

-clutch engaugement point, if it doesnt engauge at about 50% of the way down, you are FAILING AT LIFE, this can cause SERIOUS ISSUES, make sure that this is happening, it sucks ass, but please, shep transmissions have been ruined beause of people shifting while it dis-engauges at the floor.

-There are 3x universal joints in your driveshaft, normally you never have to replace them, but if you do LISTEN UP....the stock U-joint costs $80 with discount at mitsubishi.....however if you buy the TRANSFER CASE REPAIR KIT from the daelership, it only costs about $30, it includes a u-joint kit and a new yoke (you can just throw the yoke away) this problem caused deaths, so mitsubishi is obligated to offer replacement parts at a cheap cost to their customers so we can fix it and survive. So you are kinda mis-using the kit, but it is a lot cheaper then paying for the u-joint all by itself.

-Turbos fail, inspect for shaft play and have your's rebuilt, I can recommend people who can reubild turbos for cheap (local to minnesota, but shipping is cheap)

-e85 is the fuel from the gods, we have it here in minnesota everywhere, its 106octane and someone locally just dynoed 450AWHP on a ported evo3 16G....it is really amazing race fuel, and you don't have to replace lines or anything, METHANOL is BAD, ethanol is good.

-Tune your car! some would say that this is the FIRST upgrade you should do, I use MEGASQUIRT beacus I like to run 17:1 AFR on the freeway to get exceptional fuel economy, and I run a small business where I build plug-and-play megasquirt kits for $400, a lot cheaper then DSMLINK, but DSMLINK is a very good product, I just like getting rid of my MAF/MAS sensor and using MAP (shameless plug)

-Clutch maperformance.com has a deal on quartermaster clutche/flywheel assy, its about a grand, but I spent $200 on a fidenza flywheel and $500 for an ACT 2600, the quartermaster is MUCH better, and it will make your transmission shift better, it requires a little more finessing then a regular clutch, but like most things, you can get used to it, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE WHO IS CONSIDERING SPENDING $700 on CLUTCH/FLYWHEELS.

-blowby, your valve cover will leak, do not over-tighten valve cover bolts, use M6x1.0 helicoil repair kit to repair it when you do overtighten them.

-Have custom blowby/crankcase vents intalled in your valve cover, go to shepracing.com and look at how he does it. Also go to maperformace.com and look at how their FDSM's valve cover is set up, lots of vents. DSMs have blowby and the crankcase is vented, stock, but not enough.

Sorry guys, (no time to proofread) the vodka is kicking my ass and the girlfriend is giving me shit for making love to the computer and not to her...good luck and please if you are doing your own repairs consult people here, to not force/rush anything, why make mistakes when you can learn from people online who have suffered?

Good luck
 
Wow great write up dude... I just learned alot from you post. And thanks for taking your time IceMinion to share that. Now go make love to your girl LOL... sorry had to add that.
 
-Exhaust manifold-to-turbo bolts (4 of them) (M10x1.25) will FAIL and BREAK OFF IN TURBO if you FAIL to bolt the Exhaust to the bracket that is bolted on the block. Explanition: when you rev the crap out of the engine, bounce off the rev limiter, down shift, whatever, the engine shakes back and forth an couple inches...on a stock car this is fine, because the exhaust is bolted to the block, but most people who upgrade exhaust or repair/replace turbo fail to replace this bolt and they are plagued by broken turbo bolts over and over and over again and they WONDER WHY- When you superheat hardware and then put multiple dimentions of stress on the bolts, they will FAIL, and it SUCKS drilling the bolts out. I have actually upgraded some of my customer's turbos to M12x1.25 bolts (stock head bolt size (HEX)) these never fail regardless if you bolt up said bolt, but do it anyways.

((God I'm gonna sound like a newbie.)) Exhaust manifold bracket? I've looked on the site, but the few refrences I can find, the pictures are not showing up. Is the bracket you're referring to the engine hoist bracket on the upper left side of the exhaust manifold? Or is there one underneath that I didn't see when I pulled my exhaust and turbo off.
 
I never said "Exhaust manifold bracket" what I did say is "if you FAIL to bolt the Exhaust to the bracket that is bolted on the block. " this has nothing to do with the MANIFOLD.

The Exhaust DOWNPIPE-to-BLOCK bracket is down by your oil filter, if you really want ill post a picture of it up. MOST of THE TIME IT IS REMOVED BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

girlfriend is asleep now and i can use my laptop, but if I get out of bed to go to the garage and take a picture of what I am talking about, she will wake up and be pissed :( ill post it tomorrow

I'm glad you are asking questions, feel free to ask more.
 

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