benjimatt said:

Im understanding that the gunk comes from essentially cleaning out the old lines and the fuel filter but luckily I replaced all lines and and the fuel filter. My car was already running on e85 with 750s for about a month.

Yeah im running e85 not gasoline. No I havent tried the deadtime that high just yet. I guess ill try that. I havent even tried wot of cruise just yet.

But I do also want to try the lower base pressure.

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The gunk does not come from stuff in the lines and filter. This stuff is in the ethanol ITSELF and replacing every part of your fuel system will do nothing to stop it(unless the ethanol in your area doesnt contain the gunk). I have all new methanol approved SS lines, new fuel rail, new filter and still have this issue. Although the fuel here in Ohio does not seem to be as bad as other areas. But Im not trying to get people to stray away from E85. Its great stuff but you may have sticky injector issues if the car sits for a while. This is easily remedied by soaking the injectors in gasoline.

Can anyone post up a pi of this gunk? I have an ultrasonic cleaner for my injectors, but besides the fuel filter getting clogged up now and then i haven't had any issues with the E85 yet, I just want to know what i should be looking for.

It looks like a melted black plastic goo beard on the injector tip. Gasoline cleans it all off in 5 minutes.

it looks like this



so would you recommend using these? what about 1000cc? would it still be hard to tune?

Yea gas will do the trick. I also heard about some fuel injector cleaner (like the ones they sell in autozone and such) that comes in a green bottle that is specifically for E85. I think I read on the link forums that it works well.

Maybe I am asking the obvious, will running a tank of gas not clean it out? How many people have had theirs clog up? What about flex fuel vehicles? Dose GM just expect folks to take cars in for fuel injector cleaning periodically?

maximumbob said:

Maybe I am asking the obvious, will running a tank of gas not clean it out? How many people have had theirs clog up? What about flex fuel vehicles? Dose GM just expect folks to take cars in for fuel injector cleaning periodically?

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A tank of gas will clear it up. I believe GM recommends using a tank of gas every so often. At least that was what my buddy told me.

I'm debating getting these as well. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has been able to work out the idle issues however.

Anyone have anymore info on the idle issues? Has anyone figured out how to tune them to idle smoothly?

Id like to add to this thread.
I bought and modified accel 72lbs injectors for my car.
I absolutely do not recommend doing this. You will experience hesitation and bad idle problems.
Plus you will lose the ability to easily swap out for different injectors because you have to drill your rail to fit them.
Injectors that where not made for our cars will be difficult to tune with. i do not know why but that is my experience with them.

Mind sharing how you were tuning? I'd assume with a 255lph, afpr and eprom/dsmlink you should be able to get them to run like stock?

dead time adjusted up to 600-700.( far from the 330 starting point ecmlink gave me)
Gets rid of all hesitation and bad idle but screws up your air/fuel est, stft at like
-15%

Hmm wish I had a set of these to fiddle with. I was considering getting a set to try and over come the difficulties but I don't know now.

Not that it matters, what but fuel were you using? I planned on 100% e85 (currently e70)

I picked up a set of the 150lb ford/bosch "indy blues" locally for a steal. I run e-85 and tune my car with custom eprom chips. I'll have them on my car in the near future and will post some idle and cruise results for everyone, as well as my correction, deadtime, and fuel presure.

i run 93 pump gas
got them for like 200 new.
But now im gona go buy a set of fic 750cc i dont think the money saved is worth the problems that come with tuning them.i would rather pay the extra 50 and have them bolt right up put some numbers in dcmlink and pretty much be done with it.

icekilla126 said:

i run 93 pump gas
got them for like 200 new.
But now im gona go buy a set of fic 750cc i dont think the money saved is worth the problems that come with tuning them.i would rather pay the extra 50 and have them bolt right up put some numbers in dcmlink and pretty much be done with it.

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Where is the fun in that? I dont think i'll have many problems with 30-37 base pressure, e-85, and a 1,000 - 1,200 rpm idle. Way worth being able to totally crank pretty much any turbo i want. But then again i wouldn't care if my car took 10 minutes to start and blew black smoke at idle, as long as it has enough fuel for 30 + psi.

^^^ I agree.

72 lb/hr /= 160 lb/hr, trying to generalize and say just because it wasn't designed for a DSM, it won't work, is dumb. You can pretty much get any injector to work with enough work.

I've installed my 1600s. I did what the OP did and took a dremel to the plastic on top of the injector so that it would go into the fuel rail. I'll be running E85 and Jackal so I don't anticipate any idle or cruise issues. If I do, on my list is to design a peak and hold driver that should take care of any issues.

^^^
Never said they wouldn't work. I said there will be tuning difficulties involved.
Do not begin to criticize me for something you've just begun to attempt and haven't accomplished yet. My experience with these injectors exceeds yours and until you are done installing and tuning only then can you tell me I'm wrong and i will gladdy except it.

Doesn't matter, injectors aren't rocket science. They vary a lot in design, but the functional principles are the same. Do you really think they make special injectors just for DSMs? Or think to wonder why the 1600s that so many vendors sell look exactly like the ones we bought?

Regardless, you aren't even talking about 1600s, you are talking about an injector that flows less than half as much and has a completely different design. If you have a problem with yours, fine, make your own thread and stop posting in this one, because it has nothing to do with it. I may very well have tuning difficulties. If I do, I will rightly blame it on the control system (the limitations of the factory ECU, not the injector I'm using). If you actually have experience with these specific injectors, then please share your thoughts.

A list of cars these are used in as well would be a nice addition to the thread.

I am currently checking all flex fuel vehicles for a good match of injectors,(E85) with out having to modify the rail. So far no luck, still looking though. I have found some newer chevy work vans with 850cc injectors (60mm) bodys that should work. Just need to call a few friends @ Chevy and get the global and dead times! I'm at work now but I'll get the info up by tomorrow to see what you think. I'm going my dads junk yard this weekend to pick up a free set.

Here is the reason these can be hard to tune, i think the flow chart explains it all.

Great post donnie. Can you post a graph of what it should look like.

Has any one found any other sites to source this injectors. I tried to order some from the one given but it seems they are out of stock.

Bumping this thread to see how everyone that's running them is doing, I know gixxerdrew has had great luck with his.