BoostedTT91 said:

works very well, alot of support, proven to work and alot cheaper. I cant afford v3, i might possibly have enough for v3lite but not sure yet

Click to expand...

You do understand that it is not scaled properly for the GM IAT.

So when you have large swings in temperature, you'll have to fiddle with the tune.

Better keep your laptop handy

DS-MAP.NET • View topic - IAT temp compensation
DS-MAP.NET • View topic - IAT table?

BoostedTT91 said:

works very well, alot of support, proven to work and alot cheaper.

Click to expand...

Well, to each his own I suppose. Other than costing slightly more, I feel confident in saying ECMLink provides everything else you listed.

Thomas Dorris

im not saying that one is better than the other. maybe it just sounds worse than it is to set everything up for ecmlink SD. well the guy i just bought cam gears from just sold them out from under me and gave them to someone else so now that i have the extra money i might try v3lite. When hooking up the sensors, is it best to use the harness from full throttle that plugs into maf harness into the iat and map? is setup and getting everythinmg running fairly simple? thats my only worry

Originally Posted by BoostedTT91
works very well, alot of support, proven to work and alot cheaper. I cant afford v3, i might possibly have enough for v3lite but not sure yet

You do understand that it is not scaled properly for the GM IAT.

So when you have large swings in temperature, you'll have to fiddle with the tune.

Better keep your laptop handy

DS-MAP.NET • View topic - IAT temp compensation
DS-MAP.NET • View topic - IAT table?




I run ds-map and dont have any problems with the iat compensation, that was an old issue that has since been fixed. Its up to you to decide what you want to run but dont be steered away from other options by false information, definitely go speed density whatever you choose.

blakktalon said:

I run ds-map and dont have any problems with the iat compensation, that was an old issue that has since been fixed.

Click to expand...

The dates on those threads don't make it out to be an old problem.

I don't believe it has been fixed.

BoostedTT91 said:

maybe it just sounds worse than it is to set everything up for ecmlink SD.

Click to expand...

Who's making it sound bad? Most people just connect the sensors and flip the switch. There's always dial-in, if course, but we have tools to help with that too.

BoostedTT91 said:

When hooking up the sensors, is it best to use the harness from full throttle that plugs into maf harness into the iat and map?

Click to expand...

You can certainly do that, particularly if you're running a 1G.

BoostedTT91 said:

is setup and getting everythinmg running fairly simple?

Click to expand...

IMO, sure. Here's the basic getting started page if you want to read over it.

ECMLink SD setup

Thomas Dorris

ok tom, thanks a bunch for your help with all my questions. I am gonna go for it and purchase v3lite and run SD with that. One last question for you... is there certain map and iat sensors that will only work with ecmlink or really anykind. i have seen alot of threads about which map and iat are better to use but like always one say ones great and one says its not.
25-30psi will be the ideal range for me so idk if 3 bar is not enough or 5 bar is too much. The aem ones are very nice and i could thread right into my SMIM but i see alot about they arent to great.

just realized after i purchased the fullthrottle harness that they are for gm map and iat so i guess i am kinda stuck with them unless i rewire it with new harness's. How have people made out with the gm map and iat sensors with v3lite

BoostedTT91 said:

How have people made out with the gm map and iat sensors with v3lite

Click to expand...

Unless you plan to run well over 30psi, I generally recommend the GM 3-bar MAP anyway. It's nice and predictable and well known. The AEM sensors rather suck, IMO, but will do in a pinch.

The supported sensors are listed on that page I linked to previously.

sdsetup [ECMTuning - wiki]

But, actually, you can define any sensor calibration you want in ECMLink. So if you're running something other than one of the "standards", you can just punch the mapping into the application and it'll work fine.

Thomas Dorris

The dates on those threads don't make it out to be an old problem.

I don't believe it has been fixed.
^^^
The new version had a fix for the cold start compensation problems i read about.
Well seeing as i use the software, and we have had some decent fluctuations in temperature where i live( at least 30 degrees difference) and i dont drive around with my laptop hooked up to my ostrich all the time as you implied i should, im giving you my personal experience.

Either way it runs better now than it did with a stock maf/keydiver or a gm maf/ keydiver chip. And both of those seemed to vary drastically when the temperature or humidity changed.

He is going with ecmlink anyway i could care less what he goes with as long as he is happy.

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. sorry for the dumb and repetitive questions but you have helped me with my decision in picking out a new tuning system.

I wouldn't say that link lite is "slightly more expensive" than dsmap... when you take the "givens" out of the equation...

eprom ecu
wideband
sd sensors and harness

Those are necessary for both platforms to run and tune properly w/ speed density...

Now you need a logging cable and software

ecmlink - $345 some odd dollars for the software and cable
dsmap - $35 logging cable + $175 for Ostrich + software is free + real time chat technical support


hmmmmmm, If it were me I'd spend my leftover money from using Jackal on go fast parts... like some big ass injectors for e85 or something.

Hal said:

You do understand that it is not scaled properly for the GM IAT.

So when you have large swings in temperature, you'll have to fiddle with the tune.

Better keep your laptop handy [/url]

Click to expand...

The IAT is set to become tunable soon just like Motec/Megasquirt/AEM/etc... also the people that had those issues, had the SAME problem with their maf's... those gm maf tunes walked all over the place w/ temp changes. At the pace that dsmap is moving forward with constant updates I'd hardly say that this is something that was skipped over and forgotten.

FactoryChrome said:

I wouldn't say that link lite is "slightly more expensive" than dsmap...

Click to expand...

I would. But that's a matter of opinion and we can just move on.

FactoryChrome said:

those gm maf tunes walked all over the place w/ temp changes.

Click to expand...

They do not. I've posted as much proof and explanation as I can here:

GM MAF and air temp

If you have proof otherwise, I'd love to see it. But if all you have is hear say, it's not going to matter much.

IAT compensation is necessary in SD operation. I'm glad to see you have some version of it now.

Thomas Dorris

How is it a matter of opinion? Price is not an opinion. Sorry, I'm not trying to go off topic here, I just don't understand what you meant by that.

And, for the record I haven't made a choice about what I want to use yet. But cost and real time tuning ability are weighing heavily on the decision.

FactoryChrome said:

Price is not an opinion.

Click to expand...

But the phrase was "slightly more expensive", not "costs more". The "slightly" and "expensive" parts are opinion-based. Something is only "expensive" if it costs more than it's worth. And "slightly", of course, depends on how much more you're willing to spend for something.

For example, I personally consider our cable more "valuable". It has a molded end that actually plugs into the car's diagnostic port directly instead of loose wires. To me, that's worth more. Our PCB design is also fully opto-isolated. To me, that's worth more. To others, maybe not.

So you have to compare a $35 cable without that to a $65 cable with it and then decide if one is "slightly" more expensive than the other. It's not a clear cut price comparison. At least in my opinion.

FactoryChrome said:

And, for the record I haven't made a choice about what I want to use yet.

Click to expand...

Interesting. See, I misread your post entirely then.

FactoryChrome said:

But cost and real time tuning ability are weighing heavily on the decision.

Click to expand...

Most stuff in ECMLink is real time editable, include the SD VE table.

The large timing and fuel tables are the main things that people might edit in direct access that are not real time. But, seriously, in practice you don't edit those often enough to matter anyway. Once they're set, they're done.

And when you do edit them, you tend to want (or should want) to spend some time smoothing them out anyway. At least I do...and I think most of our users do. If we were actually hearing complaints about this from real customers, we'd have already done something about it.

The one item in lite that we already know we'll move out of direct access and into the real time area is the injector comp tab. I have found that editing the deadtime table in direct access is a pain. That's far more convenient to edit in real time simply because of how it's typically used. So we'll move that one out.

And as for real time editing, ECMLink provides a mode where you can save changes to the ECU the instant they're made... Meaning you can just up and down arrow a value and the ECU is updated immediately. It's like having a dial control on any field you want.

I use that myself pretty often when I'm messing around with a new set of injectors tweaking deadtime. I can immediately hear the result of a change I made as the engine is running and decide if I'm heading in the right direction or not.

Ok, enough babbling. Hopefully there's some small bit of information in there somewhere that you didn't have before.

Thomas Dorris

opto-isolated? please explain in laymans terms

hakcenter said:

Tom, IAT comp has always been in the ecu to begin with. It was not tunable.. until just recently.

Click to expand...

IAT comp calibrated for the GM IAT has always been in there?

hakcenter said:

opto-isolation is defiantly not something worth adding to the cost of board.

Click to expand...

That's an opinion. Based on our experience, it's worth it to us.

hakcenter said:

in which the ground IMHO is actually more dangerous than the data line from the ecu.

Click to expand...

Which is why we isolate that as well. That's the primary purpose, of course.

hakcenter said:

I encourage everyone to go line by line, fact by fact.

Click to expand...

Definitely.

Thomas Dorris

blakktalon said:

opto-isolated? please explain in laymans terms

Click to expand...

It's isolating two sides of an electrical circuit (in this case, the laptop from the car) by means of optical coupling, rather than direct copper.

The problem we've seen in the past has to do with using a dc/dc cable to power the laptop directly off the cigarette lighter. There are situations with this configuration where the laptop may momentarily draw its power ground *through* the logging cable instead of the lighter plug, frying the cable.

Thomas Dorris

All I have to add to the thread is I setup my SD setup using a GM 3-Bar MAP and a GM IAT sensor using DSMLink V3. I bought the cable that they sell to plug right into the stock MAF connector and in about 30 minutes all of the wiring was done. I went into the DSMLink settings, switched my MAF type over to SD, told DSMLink what sensors I was using and where they were setup and fired the car up. After doing some small adjustments my car runs better then it ever has.

DSMLink using SD was so easy! Even the small amount of tunning I did to my tables was using the built-in tools that DSMLink has built into it. I also switched to a FP aluminum intake pipe and vented my BOV in the process, and the car sounds and runs so much better. BTW I'm also pulling off about 22 mpg city/highway driving see as this car is my DD.

DSMLink FTW!

hakcenter said:

AFAIK Opto isolation is by data only ?

Click to expand...

Right. Isolation provided on the ground side is completely different, but still most certainly isolated.

Thomas Dorris

twdorris said:

The large timing and fuel tables are the main things that people might edit in direct access that are not real time. But, seriously, in practice you don't edit those often enough to matter anyway. Once they're set, they're done.

And when you do edit them, you tend to want (or should want) to spend some time smoothing them out anyway. At least I do...and I think most of our users do. If we were actually hearing complaints about this from real customers, we'd have already done something about it.

Click to expand...

I don't agree. I have helped tune plenty of cars where the timing needed to be edited while we were driving... or we could have spent more time finding a place to stop and changing it, then turning the car back on... instead of doing run after run finding the sweet spot quickly by doing the editing in real time.

Also, I've seen different 93 octane gases make the car knock when the fillup before didn't... and this needed a small tweak on the timing. I would hardly say that it's a "set it and forget it/call it a day/etc" thing....

You probably won't have to worry about hearing a complaint from me because I don't think I'm going to be a customer of your's with the attitude you have about this stuff. You act like these things are unimportant when every other good tuning system for other types of cars offers these features.

FactoryChrome said:

I don't think I'm going to be a customer of your's

Click to expand...

I'm not surprised, of course.

My point is that most everything is real time editable already. There are those that want people to believe we have no real time editing at all. And that's simply not the case. In fact, I'm pretty sure our "save changes as they're made" feature is even more real time than anything else out there. And you can do it all while simultaneously datalogging in another tab.

We'll move timing and fuel maps into a real-time mode as well. It's just not high on our priority list because, as I said, nobody that actually uses the system is complaining. It works well as it is. Could it be better? Sure. And we'll get there as time permits. We're constantly adding new features (many of which NOBODY else has) and we'll just keep right on doing it.

Thomas Dorris

Bad gas? If we're so concerned with our cars and getting the tune spot on, we drain the crap gas out and go back to the sonoco that we know always has good premium

Also if you see knock while you're driving and don't want to drain the gas or dont have enough self control to keep the pedal off the floor before finding an opportunity to pull over, you're going to pull out the laptop and retune while youre driving???? If you have a buddy in the car thats great. But I don't usually ask a buddy to hold my had while we go to the gas station together, because I might get some more knock prone gas " " . . . I pull over, retune, and make a run to see where everything is since it's kind of dangerous to look at a laptop screen, punch keys, shift and pay attention to traffic patterns all at once while accelerating hard enough to see the higher load cells.

All I have to say is narrowband simulation to free up logging inputs, option to run a maf OR sd, Tune SD fast with existing maf, live cell tracking, best logger out there for 1g cars included. Those are facts that formulated my opinion about what makes v3 lite better to me. . . Then when you're ready for the benefits that the full version offers like multiple output controls for nitrous water/meth injection etc. and switchable secondary fuel (run e85 in one tank and switch to pumpgas with the next tank or operate more than 4 injectors) auto scaleing the 3d maps, and more just pay for the upgrade.

now that the full version has dropped $100 in price i might just wait a week or two and purchase that instead of the lite version. The one question i have for Tom again is a feature on the full version. Now that i can afford the full version, would i be able to run the Evo8 maf with a vented BOV. I remember you were saying something about the maf clamp feature on there. Could u please explain that alittle bit further for me please Tom. I would much rather go with a Maf than SD if i can since i live in the mountains and dont wanna have to keep adjusting. Since this is more of a street/strip setup i like the consistancy of the maf setups.

1. What is with the fascination of venting a BOV?
2. You wouldn't have to keep adjusting if you were running speed density
3. Speed density IS consistent.

BoostedTT91 said:

would i be able to run the Evo8 maf with a vented BOV

Click to expand...

Yes. We have an idle air clamp function that should make that no problem.

BoostedTT91 said:

I remember you were saying something about the maf clamp feature on there. Could u please explain that alittle bit further for me please Tom.

Click to expand...

MAFClamp and Idle Air Clamp are two different things. You're interested in the Idle Air Clamp in this particular case. You will probably be able to simply check the Idle Air Clamp function and have it work fine out of the box. If you need to make adjustments to it, the application help file will guide you on that.

BoostedTT91 said:

I would much rather go with a Maf than SD if i can since i live in the mountains and dont wanna have to keep adjusting.

Click to expand...

There really should be no need for adjustments just because you live on a mountain when running SD unless the SD implementation was trying to work on gauge pressure or something. I think I've heard of some system or two like that where it samples barometric pressure at start up and then tries to work off some sort of gauge pressure (boost) reading. I'm not sure why something would do that, but our implementation certainly does not. It works off atmospheric pressure which means it doesn't care about your altitude.

But just as SD is consistent, so is a good ol' EVO8 MAF.

Thomas Dorris