Car is looking good tim, its been a while since ive been up to GLD with the talon. Been down for about 3 years know. anyways whats going on with this clutch prototype its seems to be the key and fix for the hub problems. 3 years ago i stripped my first set of disk and then last year stripped the revised hubs on my brothers car. it would be nice to see this thing in production.

Mitsutalon said:

Car is looking good tim, its been a while since ive been up to GLD with the talon. Been down for about 3 years know. anyways whats going on with this clutch prototype its seems to be the key and fix for the hub problems. 3 years ago i stripped my first set of disk and then last year stripped the revised hubs on my brothers car. it would be nice to see this thing in production.

Click to expand...

I am going to do some track time on September 20th (Import Wars @ GLD) to see how the clutch handles heavy launching on slicks with preloading it.

So far, the chatter has dropped and it is quieter than initial break-in. Really is smooth to drive on the street and engages really nice.

I haven't really launched the car at all yet. I tried once with a 7000-rpm 2-step and it just bogged and then left. I will need to prepare an anti-lag setup with the 7000-7200rpm 2-step to get some boost in it off the line and will practice that in 2 weeks at the track event.

I have around 500-600 street miles on the car and it is working out pretty darn good so far. Just a few hiccups, but nothing major.

When the season is over, I will be pulling the transmission and sending the clutch back to Quarter Master so they can inspect it for damages, wear patterns, etc. so that they can make a decision on production-level clutch setups utilizing the gear-drive (or spline-drive) hub assembly.

It was a great day at the track, as I didn't break! It was my first time at the track in two years with a completely new setup with no experience launching with a turbo this large. It is not like running the GT4088R whatsoever.

I only used one quick anti-lag tune (which I need to have my rpm higher next time as it would bog out of the hole on the launch when e-brake preloading it), and made the best of the situation as I was just happy to race.

Either way, the times were not consistent; I had a few third gear misses at the end of the day; either the gear oil is needed to be flushed, or I have to install a new 3/4 hub and slider/synchro assembly/3rd gear/ 3/4 shift fork into this transmission. It was getting a bit notchy in 3rd gear after the first two passes, causing a grind at 8500-9000rpm on the 3rd gear shift.

The track times in order were:

R/T: 0.235
60': 1.557
330': 4.469
1/8: 6.904
MPH: 103.60
1000': 8.934
1/4: 10.687
MPH: 130.13


R/T: 0.271
60': 1.516
330': 4.358
1/8: 6.668
MPH: 108.40
1000': 8.607
1/4: 10.278
MPH: 136.19


R/T: 0.321
60': 1.865 (bogged launch)
330': 5.058
1/8: 7.574
MPH: 100.58
1000': 9.616 (missed third)
1/4: 11.338
MPH: 132.99


R/T: 0.496
60': 1.767 (Bogged launch again, then broke the slicks loose)
330': 4.777
1/8: 7.147
MPH: 108.42
1000': 9.060
1/4: 10.702
MPH: 139.62


R/T: 0.595
60': 1.885 (Bogged launch yet again)
330': 4.785
1/8: 7.058
MPH: 111.74
1000': 8.999 (missed third yet again)
1/4: 10.710
MPH: 134.93

This was on 30psi, and very very low ignition timing (4-8 degrees at 30psi on Q16/Import race fuel) as the coolant temperatures didn't have time to cool down the best (I like running the car around 175-185 at the start of the run), and the air temps were between 90-110 degrees depending on how long I had to cool down. I was seeing between 2-6 degrees of air temp increase between the start and finish of my passes.

My first pass was at 37psi, and it was leaning out due to tune and getting to the real-world limit of the fuel pumps, and only running 4 degrees of timing due to air temps and coolant temps (I have my AEM setup to retard timing for a selected air temp and coolant temp for safety).

The rest of the runs were in the mid-11's AFR's, and 4-8 degrees of timing on 30psi. -- Extremely conservative, especially for running 10 gallons VP Q16 / 5 gallons VP Import race fuel.

I was just playing it safe the first time out, and wanted to get the car shaken down so I can add in the new fuel pump setup, bigger fuel system, bigger battery (Odyssey PC1125), get the alternator rewound (150A upgrade), and add in another fan on the radiator (8" push fan for driver-side).

Yeah, I was looking for 9's, but I was really looking to be able to drive it home at the end of the day. Mind you, this is THE LOWEST boost setting that the car goes. These kinds of numbers could have easily been done on 93-octane with the timing I was running. Also, keep in mind, I drove from Waukesha on Hoosier QTP's 50+ miles away, AND drove to Waterford at night in the rain afterwards (~15 miles away).

I wasn't a trailer queen, and I didn't break. That is huge for a DSM at this kind of power level.

Here is also a vid of most of the passes. I was running a Quick 16 bracket, so it was a dial-in racing scheme and I dialed in at 10.20 for the races. Unfortunately, I was having battery voltage issues, transmission issues, and an anti-lag setup at too low of an rpm.

YouTube - Tim Zimmer, working it at import wars September 20th 2009

As for the clutch, it worked flawlessly, and handled the 2-step/anti-lag preloading with no issues. Pedal modulation stayed rock solid the entire time, and was very consistent on the shifting. Clutch chatter was minimal.

So far, there is ~600 miles on the engine and clutch setup, ~10 dyno pulls, and 7 track passes. It is handling it like a champ!!

^^^ I have no doubt , Tim... Great job... Just finish the fuel set-up, so you can make the MOSt of it...
Big fan, good luck.

Nice!! Congrats Tim there is so much left on the table for your car..

great car... lov the sleeper look 10/10 rated gsx in my book.. you can see how much patients and an eye for quality control you have when you look at your car

keep up the great work

any news on when or if this is going to go into production? Really in the need of a twin but I would rather wait until this setup comes out.

I need to pull it from the car, ship it to Quarter Master and have them inspect it first before anything has the potential of going forward. I am going to PRI in Florida in December and will meet with Jeff Neal of Quarter Master again to discuss the clutch and the potential of making it a production-level clutch design for our application.

When I have more news concerning the clutch and its future, I will post it up!

Sounds good. I hate to buy one now knowing that something better is going to come out soon. but i guess im going to buy a twin and then buy the new designed pack once it is available.

Be sure to post up what contirbuted to the problems on the 2-3 shift, as the main reason I would switch to a twin disc would be for the improved shifting aspect. I have chronic issues the 2-3 shift whereas the clutch seems to be dragging, even just recently switched to a 4 puck on a fresh tranny to alleviate the drag and still very notchy going to third.
Great looking car BTW.
Good luck

CJTurbo said:

Be sure to post up what contirbuted to the problems on the 2-3 shift, as the main reason I would switch to a twin disc would be for the improved shifting aspect. I have chronic issues the 2-3 shift whereas the clutch seems to be dragging, even just recently switched to a 4 puck on a fresh tranny to alleviate the drag and still very notchy going to third.
Great looking car BTW.
Good luck

Click to expand...

The 2-3 shift and 3-4 shift was all transmission issues -- 3/4 hub and slider is dead and fork will be worn. When you get to this kind of power level on DSM 3/4 hub and sliders, they do not live long when you do alot of dyno time and racing.

It was most definitely not the clutch causing the problem.

The trans had no issues on my old setup revving out to 8400rpm, but I will do my preloads a bit tighter to capacitate 9000rpm shifts now along with fresh parts.

Do you think there is room to due 2 11" pusher fans on the front of the radiator? I like the design.

1FAST2G said:

Do you think there is room to due 2 11" pusher fans on the front of the radiator? I like the design.

Click to expand...

As pusher fans, you would need to modify the design a bit, by welding the fan mounts onto the front of the radiator instead. You could probably run 11" twin-pusher fans -- IF you did a bit of cut work and clearance work for the hood latch assembly, power steering cooler line, and anything else in the way.

I designed the radiator for 11" twin-puller fans --
There is definitely the room to do it if you are using a DNP T4 manifold WITHOUT the 1" spacer I have between the head and manifold.

I am not running one on the driver-side as a puller, just because the turbo sits a bit too close to it now, and I think I would melt it pretty quickly.

The only reason I needed the spacer, was to run the upgraded compressor cover on my turbo (size of a GT45/GT47 turbo) -- the standard-60 "GT42R" compressor cover fits without the spacer flange, and the twin-fan setup fits just fine with the standard compressor cover installed.

I am going to install an 8" pusher fan on the driver-side in between the FMIC and the radiator to use as a secondary fan. I am doing ok for coolant temperatures, but I would like to get a bit better, as the single fan gets the car to 185-degrees under normal conditions without problems. On a hot day at the track though, I couldn't stay less than 190 degrees, and during a hard pass, I would reach 198 degrees. I prefer my temperature less than 190 degrees down the track.

Ok everyone, I have removed the clutch assembly to ship out back to Quarter Master clutch to have them inspect it and to see if it will be a viable production-level clutch for our vehicle application.

The Quarter Master Gear-Drive Prototype Rally 7.25" V-Drive Twin-Disk clutch assembly worked flawlessly with the gear-drive hub assembly, and lasted the season with absolutely no issues. It was extremely streetable with very good deceleration throttle harmonics (in conjunction with a Fluidampr harmonic crank damper), excellent clutch pedal feel and very smooth engagement characteristics. The clutch harmonics were substantially better than the earlier style disks I was using beforehand, and produced very little chatter during clutch disengagement and driving under deceleration. The gear-drive hub also produced no visible wear on the input shaft splines and fit perfectly without any sort of modification. The clutch pedal pressure was extremely smooth and felt almost-stock in comparison. The clutch assembly was also used with a factory Mitsubishi throw-out bearing and showed minimal wear within normal tolerances. The flywheel required resurfacing of approximately 0.007-0.008" before the clutch was installed to ensure perfect flatness, and this may have attributed to uneven wear of the clutch disks, as only ~60% of the clutch disk facing the flywheel showed wear while the other percentage showed the original machining surface. The flywheel-side clutch disk also showed a small bit of overheating along the outer portion of the friction surface which coincides with the visible wear pattern it was producing on the floater disk and the flywheel friction surface. The gear-drive hub showed no wear on the input shaft engagement splines, and minimal wear to the hub outer splines from the front floating disk.


I will be speaking with Quarter Master Clutch at the PRI Show during December 10-13th, 2009 concerning this clutch, as well as the potential of becoming a vendor of their products through my transmission rebuilding business, and will keep you all in the loop. As of now, the clutch has been shipped back to Quarter Master for their inspection and we will go from there.

If you are interested in purchasing this clutch design for your setup, please feel free to PM me to get on a list of interested people. I do not have a price yet, but I will be working on that when it comes to that point of the process based on Quarter Master's decision to move forward.

Nice to hear that, I will be needing a replacement kit for next year event.

Any updates yet??

It sounds like I am now a vendor of their parts, and they have the materials in-house now to produce these clutch disks. I don't have pricing yet, nor do I have a specific timeframe of how long it would take to receive the disks after ordering.

When I have more information, I will post up.

Just to verify, we can replace the current discs of the clutch with these new ones without other mods to the clutch it's self?

That is correct! Straight drop-in. No modifications required to the clutch cover, floater or fulcrum disk, flywheel, throwout bearing or clutch fork.

Just be sure to thoroughly inspect your fulcrum and floater disks for wear or hot-spots, and measure them to the factory specifications. As well, inspect the clutch cover for excessive wear of the clutch fingers. If those are all in good condition, I would recommend a new set of disks and a resurface of the flywheel if there is any wear or warpage whatsoever.

As well, it is worthwhile to replace the clutch assembly bolts/hardware, and the floater plate and fulcrum plate while it is apart along with having the flywheel checked/resurfaced. It is good preventative maintenence, and will extend the life of your clutch.

I just spoke with the guys over at Quarter Master, and they confirmed that I am a vendor now.

They are currently waiting on their machining company to complete the hub machining order for these clutch disks.

ETA for the parts is the end of January 2010.

The pricing information will be available to me soon. I asked them to put together the numbers and get them over to me -- hopefully it is quick!

I will keep everyone in the loop regarding the clutch!

twicks69 said:

I just spoke with the guys over at Quarter Master, and they confirmed that I am a vendor now.

They are currently waiting on their machining company to complete the hub machining order for these clutch disks.

ETA for the parts is the end of January 2010.

The pricing information will be available to me soon. I asked them to put together the numbers and get them over to me -- hopefully it is quick!

I will keep everyone in the loop regarding the clutch!

Click to expand...

This is great news. I kinda kept pushing off getting my clutch and now it looks like it paid off.

Sounds like a step in the right direction for twin disc clutches.

Nice work. This isn't making my decision on whether or not to go automatic any easier though...

Some people have also been asking about this hub design for the Evo disks. I think it is a possibility, as long as Quarter Master can machine up the hubs for the 1" 23-spline Evo input shaft.

I already contacted them concerning this, and am waiting for a response.

twicks69 said:

Some people have also been asking about this hub design for the Evo disks. I think it is a possibility, as long as Quarter Master can machine up the hubs for the 1" 23-spline Evo input shaft.

I already contacted them concerning this, and am waiting for a response.

Click to expand...

this would be good for both evo owners that are looking to upgrade to the newer version hubs and disc. Also for the dsm owners that runs ppg dog box with the evo8 inputshaft splines.


Steve