Pretty impressive. It's nice you don't need to remove the timing belt. That alone would make it worth while IMO. Wish I still lived in palm beack FL. I'd swing by!

snowborder714 said:

Very neat Mike! If you plan on making the kit to sell to members here, you should look into a Supporting Freelancer account

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I have been giving that some thought. I do believe this is a viable system. If a person does install aftermarket adjustable cam gears It is always best to tear down the belt system for install to assure no teeth get skipped. This system avoids that and can be done in less than an hour. Also with aftermarket gears you still need to buy dial indicators, 2 solid lifters, degree wheel, adapters,etc. Just about every time I see a set of adjustable gears they are setting straight up and have never been adjusted, for show only. I have been building performance engines since 1974 and my instructor told me before you do anything to an engine for performance, you must degree the cams. That is the base line of your engine. In all these years I have only found a few that were actually in specification. Now days it is the most overlooked thing in performance as it can't just be bolted on and is considered a black art by many.

Mike

How did you attach that extension on your dial indicator?

Also, how are you doing it without solid/adjustable lifters?

99gst_racer said:

How did you attach that extension on your dial indicator?

Also, how are you doing it without solid/adjustable lifters?

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Sounds to me like he's just turning them a certain number of degrees, rather than really 'degreeing the cams'.

The way I see it it, it is the same as having adjustable cam gears. You still have to set your dial indicator and degree wheel up. Then just see how far off you are from the specs in the cam card. If your 3* off you install a 3* bushing etc.... Why would adjustable lifters be needed? They aren't needed with adjustable cam gears?

Unfortunately since you do have to drill out the dowel hole by hand I could see the degree being off a very tiny amount. But it's better still better than going through the whole process of tearing the timing belt out IMO. I'm sure I'm 5* out with my crappy BC 272's straight up. I'd take it to a shop that already had all the tools ready in a heartbeat over swapping out the gears myself.

You can find cam gears used for around $125-150 depending on the brand, i personally like fidanza.

But i understand what you mean when having the BC272's, i first installed mine straight up, then changed the exhaust cam a few degres -.

I even on all my stock cams usually change the degree. On Stevens car i neg the exhaust cam 1tooth. (stock gears)

And it was a huge difference.

jrohner said:

Sounds to me like he's just turning them a certain number of degrees, rather than really 'degreeing the cams'.

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Well, he's using a dial indicator and a degree wheel, so I doubt he's just guessing. Aside from a couple solid lifters, he's got everything needed for a true degree job.

forcefed86 said:

The way I see it it, it is the same as having adjustable cam gears. You still have to set your dial indicator and degree wheel up. Then just see how far off you are from the specs in the cam card. If your 3* off you install a 3* bushing etc.... Why would adjustable lifters be needed? They aren't needed with adjustable cam gears?

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Solid/ajustable lifters are definitely needed for a true degree job. You need them to adjust to zero lash. otherwise, your lifter will be compressing when you don't want it to and it will skew what the dial indicator is reading. The only other way to do it would be to remove the internal spring from a factory HLA and then add the appropiate amount of shims to make it a solid, pre-set height. But that's not an ideal method due to the amount of time invested in trial and error to get it right.

Regardless, you definitely do need an adjustable solid lifter to properly degree your cams.

99gst_racer said:

Well, he's using a dial indicator and a degree wheel, so I doubt he's just guessing. Aside from a couple solid lifters, he's got everything needed for a true degree job.


Solid/ajustable lifters are definitely needed for a true degree job. You need them to adjust to zero lash. otherwise, your lifter will be compressing when you don't want it to and it will skew what the dial indicator is reading. The only other way to do it would be to remove the internal spring from a factory HLA and then add the appropiate amount of shims to make it a solid, pre-set height. But that's not an ideal method due to the amount of time invested in trial and error to get it right.

Regardless, you definitely do need an adjustable solid lifter to properly degree your cams.

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Yes I use adjustable solid lifters. That first photo was just on hand and all has been fabricated to do the job correctly. I have a spring compressor to remove and install special rockers and solid lifters.
The enlarged hole actually makes no difference where its is as the eccentric moves the gear where it needs to go by using the degree wheel.
As stated earlier I have been building engines since 1975. I do know how to degree cams.

Mike

Cool, I figured you were using them, but I figured I'd ask being that they weren't in your picture.

99gst_racer said:

Well, he's using a dial indicator and a degree wheel, so I doubt he's just guessing. Aside from a couple solid lifters, he's got everything needed for a true degree job.


Solid/ajustable lifters are definitely needed for a true degree job. You need them to adjust to zero lash. otherwise, your lifter will be compressing when you don't want it to and it will skew what the dial indicator is reading. The only other way to do it would be to remove the internal spring from a factory HLA and then add the appropiate amount of shims to make it a solid, pre-set height. But that's not an ideal method due to the amount of time invested in trial and error to get it right.

Regardless, you definitely do need an adjustable solid lifter to properly degree your cams.

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Ah, I see what your saying.

We used a special set of really weak valve springs when we degree'd in engines. They basically just hold the retainers in place and stop the valve from dropping in the head I think they are like .5 lb (or less) springs. This way they didn't have enough force to collapse the lifter.

forcefed86 said:

Ah, I see what your saying.

We used a special set of really weak valve springs when we degree'd in engines. They basically just hold the retainers in place and stop the valve from dropping in the head I think they are like .5 lb (or less) springs. This way they didn't have enough force to collapse the lifter.

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I was quite busy last evening and didn't have time to get some recent photos. I'll step out in the garage and snap some photos tonight.

Mike

This thread is old by now but so am I. I'm not going to break it down but here is all that is necessary to degree cams with or without adjustable cam gears.

The Kit








Mike

I've replaced the cam gears without having to take the belt or lower covers out.
You just need the auto tensioner tool, mark the belt where it corresponds to the gear marks and make shure not to leave the belt loose while doing the job.
I use a rubberband and a steel wire attached to the hood to maintain the belt a bit tensioned.

BTW, is there any way to make an adjustable lifter using a bolt or something like this or the only way is to use different shims to get the correct height?

Thanks.