Little more info I found...

6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R
14 cm2 = 0.97 A/R
15 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17 cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19 cm2 = 1.37 A/R

holset a/r for exhaust housing

'89-'91.5 - Small H1C, 3" compressor inlet (non intercooled) 50mm compressor

'91.5-'93 - H1C, 4" compessor inlet (intercooled), 54mm compressor

'94-'95 - WH1C, wastegated 12cm exhaust housing, 8 blade 56mm compressor

'96-'98 - HX35W, wastegated 12cm, 8-blade 56mm compressor

'98-'02 (manuals) - HX35W, wastegated 12cm, 7-blade 56mm compressor

'01-'02 (automatics) - HY35W, restrictive 9cm wastegated housing (compressor, don't know)

'03-'04.5 (i think) - HE341W - 9cm wastegated housing, (compressor, don't know)

'04.5-'07 - HE351CW - 9cm wastegated housing, 62mm compressor

'89-'93 turbos have either 18.5cm or 21cm housings. All turbos after '94 will have MWE slots.

I love this picture.



Ever since I bought this turbo I've been wondering, how does it compare to an HX35 and will I see similar results with this H1C?

If you want to save money, thats fine . But if you guys think a diesel designed tubo is going to flow better and spool better than properly matched Garrett turbo, your crazy. Garrett is a huge company with full time engineers and the best equipment working full time to make their wheels the most efficient for gas race applications. Even if Holset/Cummins and Garrett were equally capable companies, turbos designed for big displacement motors are designed differently then turbos for smaller displacement motors. Two different compressor maps.

UncleBens said:

if you guys think a diesel designed tubo is going to flow better and spool better than properly matched Garrett turbo, your crazy.

Click to expand...

Define "properly matched".


You can't argue with results, my friend:

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It should be known that prior to using the HX35, Dave was running a SBR G60 in a T3 .63 a/r T3 housing and the car's fastest pass was around 12.3 using the same worn-out 6-bolt. The HX35 was bolted on the car and Dave ran his first 11-second pass his very next trip to the track. The car has only gotten faster since with better tuning and weight reduction.

The G60 was supposed to be a "properly matched" Garrett-based turbo built with DSM use in mind.


Just because Holset and BW turbos weren't built with max-boost and gasoline racing performance in mind doesn't mean they won't work exceptionally well when put to the test on gasoline applications. Their durability is proven.

In all honesty, today's Garrett journal bearing turbos are still using a center housing that was designed in the 70's which have only received revisions to the compressor seal design over the years (carbon seal replaced by a dynamic seal). Maybe Garrett wheels are efficient....but Garrett needs to update their center housing design in order to keep up with the boost levels that their turbos are now being pushed to in order to prevent more of this:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/344931-whats-deal-garrett-t3-thrust-plates.html

BURN!!!

Anyone bought a BEP .50 housing lately? Finally getting close to buying mine, and ive seen lots of posts saying no one has them once again. I am trying to get all my engine parts together to get it to the machine shop before i worry about the other parts i need.

I will probably try and email bep directly as i did previously to price check to see if they are still selling them direct.

I called them like 3 months ago and they said they still make them, but since demand is short they only make batches of like 5 housings every now and then.

cooldude919 said:

Anyone bought a BEP .50 housing lately? Finally getting close to buying mine, and ive seen lots of posts saying no one has them once again. I am trying to get all my engine parts together to get it to the machine shop before i worry about the other parts i need.

I will probably try and email bep directly as i did previously to price check to see if they are still selling them direct.

Click to expand...

Check your PMs, sir.

Not sure if I have ever posted my results so far HX-52.

Here are a few videos of my little horse.

YouTube - Holset HX52 second start up

YouTube - Completed Holset HX-52 setup idle video

YouTube - 1989 Dodge Colt 4g61 world record dyno

YouTube - 10 injector startup.avi

Here is my friend's car on the dyno with his HX-52.

YouTube - Nick Sutton's Land Speed Talon

jusmx141 said:

Define "properly matched".


You can't argue with results, my friend:

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It should be known that prior to using the HX35, Dave was running a SBR G60 in a T3 .63 a/r T3 housing and the car's fastest pass was around 12.3 using the same worn-out 6-bolt. The HX35 was bolted on the car and Dave ran his first 11-second pass his very next trip to the track. The car has only gotten faster since with better tuning and weight reduction.

The G60 was supposed to be a "properly matched" Garrett-based turbo built with DSM use in mind.


Just because Holset and BW turbos weren't built with max-boost and gasoline racing performance in mind doesn't mean they won't work exceptionally well when put to the test on gasoline applications. Their durability is proven.

In all honesty, today's Garrett journal bearing turbos are still using a center housing that was designed in the 70's which have only received revisions to the compressor seal design over the years (carbon seal replaced by a dynamic seal). Maybe Garrett wheels are efficient....but Garrett needs to update their center housing design in order to keep up with the boost levels that their turbos are now being pushed to in order to prevent more of this:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/344931-whats-deal-garrett-t3-thrust-plates.html

Click to expand...

Well yes I can argue with the results as you hardly have any details. I've seen 16g's also run that kind of trap speed so does that mean the 16g is better they your holset? I know they sure spool faster. Your drag video doesn't show anything except that the turbo can flow air. There are so many variables that go into it, hell everytime I go to the track I usually get better times with the same setup just because I tweak the tune/car and learn how to launch/drive better. A good turbo setup will spool fast and be pumping reasonably low air temps, back pressure under control AND flow good. You can clip a turbine wheel to make it flow more but that doesn't make it a better turbo, it ruins the engineering of the wheel, you lose a lot of spool and gain a little airflow.

Problem is you guys always think there is a magical turbo out there with new alien technology that will make more 100whp and spool 500rpm's faster. You make a lot of claims with little research. You jump on the turbo of the day bandwagon. Garrett's full name is Garrett AiResearch, AIR RESEARCH. They are god's of the science of airflow starting before their company even designed turbos. Garrett has been around since the 1930's and has sold billions of dollars in turbo equipment, yes billions and that is not an exaggeration. Entire companies have been created by ripping off Garrett technology like Turbonetics and PTE which both started by making turbos composed of Garrett's parts. Garrett has high end test equipment and actually generates real compressor maps which are very expensive to test/generate. Other companies don't have real compressor maps or they make them up. Do you think small companies like PTE and Bullseye power can afford to actually airflow test their custom casted low production turbine housings?

I've been around dsm's since 1997 back with the Talon Digest which most of you haven't heard of. I've seen many companies and turbos come and go including all the clipped mitsu turbos, Mutt turbos everyone hyped and then the company went under. BB's came out and those were good. Now we have billet turbos, extended tips and holsets.

My biggest issue is the first post in this thread is full of exaggeration and misleading people saying how much better the holsets spool compared to garretts.

As far as reliability, Garrett is proven, they make many oem turbos even our own t25 2g turbo.

You're talking like Holset is some garage made, chinese turbo. All that research you speak so highly of has been done by Holset too. They make their own compressor maps and test the crap too. Blah, blah, I could go on but I just really don't care that much.

UncleBens said:

I've seen 16g's also run that kind of trap speed so does that mean the 16g is better they your holset?

Click to expand...

....and I've seen a 16G run a 10.33 in person. Does that mean a 16G is better than a Garrett?

UncleBens said:

I know they sure spool faster.

Click to expand...

Possibly a 16G, but not an 18G. Take a look at post #44 of this very thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a-2.html#post152041054

UncleBens said:

Problem is you guys always think there is a magical turbo out there with new alien technology that will make more 100whp and spool 500rpm's faster. You make a lot of claims with little research. You jump on the turbo of the day bandwagon.

Click to expand...

Wrong; that would be the guys who buy the newest and best turbo that FP or PTE builds just because it HAS to be good.

Holset technology is not new by any means. If you're so closed-minded to insist that Garrett technology is the best there is and that there is no other, then all hail Garrett....king of turbochargers.

UncleBens said:

I've seen many companies and turbos come and go including all the clipped mitsu turbos, Mutt turbos everyone hyped and then the company went under. BB's came out and those were good. Now we have billet turbos, extended tips and holsets.

Click to expand...

What do you think of the FP Green / Red and all of the turbos that FP now has available for the Evo as direct bolt-on upgrades? Aren't these just "clipped Mitsu turbos" and "Mutts"?

I guess you could say that the FP bolt-ons are turbos that were born from the Mutt era that have withstood the test of time. Bear in mind the Mutt turbos that are now gone used Garrett center housings and the FP Green / Red which been making power for years utilize the more reliable Mitsubishi center housing.

UncleBens said:

My biggest issue is the first post in this thread is full of exaggeration and misleading people saying how much better the holsets spool compared to garretts.

Click to expand...

All of the information in that post is based on fact...nothing is exaggerated. If you have an issue with what has been said here, message the author and I'm sure he'll be glad to point you in the right direction.

UncleBens said:

As far as reliability, Garrett is proven, they make many oem turbos even our own t25 2g turbo.

Click to expand...

I can't believe you'd actually close your Garrett worship session by making the statement that a T25 is actually a reliable turbocharger. You are hilarious.

Thanks for clogging our thread with useless information. I'm sure it's going to change everyone's opinion about Garrett turbochargers.

I am happy with my big, slow spooling outdated turd. That is all the matters to me. Not maps, airflow numbers or any written down data to please the masses. I like most holset guys are looking for something to move a good amount of air at a good price.

Tell me of another GT4294ish sized turbo that has PROVEN RELIABILITY that you can buy for $300. I know I could not find one. It was such a fair deal, my friend picked up one as well. He loved it so much, we went back and got him another, and just to keep a return customer happy, our supplier gave him the second one for $150. And guess what, both of our turbos scream hard, make tons of power and do everything we need and ask of a turbo for our applications.

Holset for life.

jusmx141 said:

I can't believe you'd actually close your Garrett worship session by making the statement that a T25 is actually a reliable turbocharger. You are hilarious.

Click to expand...

The t25 is not known as an unreliable turbo, for every one person on the board that complains about them there is probably 1000 people out there running them without an issue. The t25 and 14b are the two most common turbos on these boards because they are oem so of course your going to hear more about them. Its a very high production unit OEM unit that had a factory warranty. Think of how many people run max boost on them spinning the piss out of them and they keep on ticking. Some of those t25's are going on 15 years old. They're failure rate is not noticably any different then the 14b and a smaller turbo like the t25 is going to have a rougher life/higher thrust loads than a bigger turbo will on the same displacement engine.

Sorry I don't get a hard on when I see a wrecked dodge diesel at the junkyard.

I however, get excited when I see tractor trailers and heavy equipment in the junk yard.

BLA BLA BLA!! Im getting tired of reading holset this and fp that. There is no reason for arguing anymore. If you have the money and want a fp turbo/ garrett turbo then by al means go and spend your money on what you want. Im not rich and am happy with my holset. You see for the price I got for my holset. I went and bought ecm link, my holset and still had money to pay my rent priceless. For the price of one fp turbo not to mention all the other stuff lines downpipe to make the turbo work that adds to over 2k quick. Most guys on here want to make 4-500 hp. A hx35 will do that. So why spend so much on a turbo when you can spend 300 bucks and do the same thing. Unless your rich or mommy and daddy buy all your car stuff and then you just take it some where to get worked on. Im a true tuner I tune my car I wrench on my car. If I break my car I will fix it. I'm not rich I live on my own and my mommy and daddy don't pay for bills or car parts. So from now on It will be Holset for me. Longevity and Durability is what I want

dsmmatt28 said:

BLA BLA BLA!! Im getting tired of reading holset this and fp that. There is no reason for arguing anymore. If you have the money and want a fp turbo/ garrett turbo then by al means go and spend your money on what you want. Im not rich and am happy with my holset. You see for the price I got for my holset. I went and bought ecm link, my holset and still had money to pay my rent priceless. For the price of one fp turbo not to mention all the other stuff lines downpipe to make the turbo work that adds to over 2k quick. Most guys on here want to make 4-500 hp. A hx35 will do that. So why spend so much on a turbo when you can spend 300 bucks and do the same thing. Unless your rich or mommy and daddy buy all your car stuff and then you just take it some where to get worked on. Im a true tuner I tune my car I wrench on my car. If I break my car I will fix it. I'm not rich I live on my own and my mommy and daddy don't pay for bills or car parts. So from now on It will be Holset for me. Longevity and Durability is what I want

Click to expand...

...and performance
Well put.

I have all kinds of money, but still choose to run a holset!!!

HOLSET FTW

UncleBens, you only got 2 years on me. I know what you are saying about hyped turbos. The major difference here is that the manufacturer isnt the one making all the hype. Its the users. Cummins (parent company of Holset) could care less if we like their turbos or not, but they are usually helpful with questions if you email them. They arent allowed to give you their maps or flow data, but if you give them the info on the id tag they are more than happy to tell you the specs. IMHO, even Bullseye would rather you went with a BW turbo over a Holset. It is the demand of the users that keep them producing the housings that fit them.

I dont know how much you know about diesel engines, but in the past 15 years or so the performance demands for diesels have gone through the roof while the emission regulations at the same time have gotten ridiculously strict. 2010 emissions have gotten so bad that in big cities the air coming out of the exhaust is cleaner than the air going in the engine. There has been and continues to be a lot of research in turbocharging technology to make this happen. Once you start doing some simple math using displacement and spool of a Cummins vs a 2L gas engine you realize their demands arent that much different. Plus i know of many Cummins engines with close to a million miles on their original turbo seeing around 30psi constantly and diesels are always in boost unless they are idling.

Also, there are more Garrett turbos on diesel engines than there are on gas engines. They dont have gas specific wheels, so i wonder what their engineering goals are geared toward.

In the end, we arent trying to talk you into a Holset. If you like Garrett, thats cool. Let those of us that dont like them try to find something else. My Garrett is a paperweight and id only consider another one if it was a GT turbo which are extremely overpriced, IMHO. For the price of a just a GT Garrett turbo, i got my Holset, a quality tubular divided exhaust manifold, 2 44mm Tial wastegates and a downpipe.

talondave said:

I have all kinds of money, but still choose to run a holset!!!

HOLSET FTW

Click to expand...

I must say that if a Holset can pass the "Dave" test, it can pass any test.

It's not a matter of how much money you have, it's about choosing to spend your money wisely on a reliable product that you don't have to replace or rebuild two or three times in one season. That's senseless spending.

Out of all the turbos that Dave has used in the past few years, the HX35 is the only one we've removed from his car at the end of the season with the same shaft play as when we put it on. He blew a brand new Turbonetics 60-1 in 160 miles, a SBR G60 a handful of times, a used Garrett 50-trim that I loaned to him, a SBR GT13 ball-bearing turbo in under 3k, and the original SBR G50 that blew once on his old FWD and again about 6 months later on his AWD.

Only one other turbo made it one whole season on Dave's car....a MHI 20G; and the 20G had some shaft play at the end of the year but was still making 25psi and running low 12's.

If they are oiled correctly they will most likely out last our cars. My holset is the most reliable part on my friggin car

I got my holset for the same reason. reliability, cost, performance. Mine isn't even on my car yet and I'm praising the reliability of it just because of what there designed to go through.
I just wish there was a definate answer on feed lines and drain lines for these things as Everyone seems to have a different answer on how to feed them and drain them but I need to know definatley because I plan on putting 20,000 miles a year on my set up.
We ask alot of questions regarding restrictor sizes and feed line sizes and wether we still have balance shafts and if oil pump housings are ported but what about if the motor in question still uses oil squirters? Some built 2.0's don't have them and the holes are plugged were as the 4g64s don't use them. Some guys delete them when installing aftermarket rods and pistons when others keep them. The use of the squirters plays a role in the available oil pressure.
Also has anyone delt with the kiggly produced HLA assembly for the cylinder heads? Could that be a better alternative then to porting the oil filter housings and then other aftermarket turbos to be oiled from the head when they used to receive oil from the OFH? I may be way over thinking this but I'm just throwing that out there.

Well I just sent mine to justin and he said the thrust washer and bearings were in excellent condition. He said that the thrust washer didn't even have a mark. I bought the turbo used. I ran 30psi daily and 35-38 psi a few times. So the durability is there for sure. Oil feed from the oil filter housing using a fitting that a friend made for me. We drilled with a 5/64 drill bit for the hole. This hole is .078 and serves as the resrictor.

UncleBens said:

As far as reliability, Garrett is proven, they make many oem turbos even our own t25 2g turbo.

Click to expand...

Saying something like this should be in a sarcastic way, not a serious way. There's probably no worse turbo than a T25, reliability or performance wise.

Either take a ride with someone running a bolton Holset and then come back to comment, or quit with the BS.

I started my build for the summer this week. Wanted to see what you guys think I would be looking at with an HX40 on a 12:1 motor?