I received two different PTE turbos from completely unrelated customers (one 6152S, one 6169SP) at the shop in the past two days for a rebuild service, and BOTH of them died from the thrust washer literally exploding.

Both of these turbos were filter-housing fed, and showed no signs of wear other than the damaged thrust plate...the journal bearings weren't scored or discolored; the turbos showed no sign of abuse otherwise. The 6152S had a hard life (over 30psi), and the 6169SP was a little more conservative with the boost (in the 20's). Here's the kicker....neither of these turbos had over 2000 miles on them when they failed..



The 360* plate is supposed to be Garrett's most reliable thrust system for the T3 turbo. Is this really it for the T3 center housing? Have the ever-growing wheel sizes finally outgrew the reliability potential of the T3 center housing?

This is all just speculation obviously, but there seems to be an issue that Garrett should address if they want to stay competitive in the market.

Because PTE IS NOT Garrett maybe?

PTE uses Garrett wheels and center housings as well as Garrett internals. Flip these thrust plates over and it reveals the AiResearch "A" that is cast into all Garrett parts.


Trust me on this one....PTE turbos use more Garrett components than FP 18G 6SL2 turbos use MHI components.

Could it be a PTE assembly issue? I'm under the ASSumption that PTE buys all garrett pieces and assembles them in their shop. Or does PTE buy center cartridges already built?

Wish I could help. My PTE 6169sp died from what I assume is due to the thrust plate(had excessive in and out play but really not side to side). Sold the turbo to a guy in RI before I could tear it down for a rebuild.

jusmx141 said:

PTE uses Garrett wheels and center housings as well as Garrett internals. Flip these thrust plates over and it reveals the AiResearch "A" that is cast into all Garrett parts.


Trust me on this one....PTE turbos use more Garrett components than FP 18G 6SL2 turbos use MHI components.

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WRONG! PTE uses garret DESIGN wheels, but they are not garrett wheels, and I would be willing to wager that the same goes for the CHRA's and bearings.

Unless their s wheels or sp wheels are billet, they use GARRETT parts wholely and completely. There's no difference between an fpred compressor wheel and the scm6052 compressor wheel. They both came from garrett. I'm just wondering how much assembly they USUALLY do in their shop.

It's hard to agrue with garrett's name imprinted on the thrust plate . Relax you have an FP turbo

Boosted98gsx said:

WRONG! PTE uses garret DESIGN wheels, but they are not garrett wheels, and I would be willing to wager that the same goes for the CHRA's and bearings.

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How much are we wagering on the wheels?


Compressor:





Turbine:

That's just weird, I think more of this is going to be user/installer error in the oil feed or something making the turbo work WAY harder than it should.

I have a 57 trim that i built myself when apprenticing at majestic turbo in waco texas... This was back in2001 or so... This turbo has been through 2 engines and is on it's third and pushing near 100K miles of very hard use. It's oil fed from the head (cut a 1g hardline in half, then used a compression coupler to adapt to the correct size AN fitting to have a little braided flexable line and i've run it this way on all the engines it's been on. I check it every time i'm doing an oil change and filter cleaning and aside from some compressor blade wear from debris getting by the filter or something, the shaft play is still right where it was when i built it. A tiny bit of side to side (required to have a little as you know) and NO in and out play (tolerance is about 0 on that play)

I have taken it apart a few times for inspecion and found no wear what so ever in the thrust washer. (and in case anyone is wondering... I marked the compressor wheel to turbine shaft so that they went back together in balance) not that is probably is anymore since the compressor nicks, but anyway that's how they are done to be put back in the CHRA after coming off the balancing machine. Oculd it be that the theory that a turbo doesn't need balannced is making it's way into some of these turbo shops and the turbos are failing due to a lack of smooth operation due to turbine/compressor im-balance???

Only reason i ask is that every straight garrett turbo that i've ever put on anything has lasted well beyond the engine (or in some cases the car) that it was installed on. I'm not as good as jusmxm on rebuilding them as i was only taught on garretts and have no experience in mitsu turbos other than seeing them taken down and parts of them going back together.

But never in al my years of installing and tuning tubo systems (about 12-13 years now)have I seen so see on this forum and most of the time it seems to be an issue of drawing oil from the OFH or head, which by what i was taught shouldn't matter as long as the run off from the turbo drain meets the requirement of the turbo manufacturers install card (checklist card) they give you with the turbo. Other than over pressurizing (especially on BB units) i see no reason fo this many failures.. could it be that people are so woried about "too much oil" and are restricting the flow down so badly that the turbos are suffering from a lack of lubrication???

On any turbo install you should have a measuring cup and a number that you're shooting for "X" amount of milliliters or ounces that run out fo the turbo in either a one minute or 30 second interval at idle. I'm thinking too may people are just hooking things up...seeing that there is oil period and calling them good, while not measuring volume.

turboglenn said:

Other than over pressurizing (especially on BB units) i see no reason for this many failures.. could it be that people are so worried about "too much oil" and are restricting the flow down so badly that the turbos are suffering from a lack of lubrication???

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I can't speak for the 6169SP, but I know for a fact the 6152S was running the feed line from the filter housing. Again there was no sign of scoring on the turbine shaft from the journal bearings on either turbo, which normally happens first on a turbo that was under-oiled either by excessive restriction or lack of operating pressure.

Here a fine example of a turbo that failed quickly due to lack of oil, a customer's 60-1:




Tons of heat scoring around the shaft, discolored journal bearings.....yet this particular turbo had *zero* thrust plate damage- that's what has me baffled.

Yes, I have one more to add to the collection.

This one would've been the first of the three to go down- it's been a year since it blew, it's just been sitting on my buddy's shelf after he upgraded to a HX40 and never looked back.

Here we have a PTE 6031E- another fine specimen of Precision's reliability. This turbo had no excessive up/down play, no sign of scoring on the shaft....but there was so much heat generated by the failed thrust washer that I literally had to cut the shaft to get the turbo apart. The compressor seal collar welded itself to the shaft.


If any of you guys buy a Precision journal bearing turbo after viewing this thread which shows three well-oiled PTE turbos dying for absolutely no reason, you're doing so at your own risk.

I wish i saw this thread before i wasted money on one of these. Bought it with a fresh rebuild from precision, everything looked good and spun freely( or so i thought), hooked it up after running some oil into the inlet, started the car and the blades didnt even spin at idle. I went over everything and ended up putting the 14b back on just to get to work the next morning. I traded it to a friend who sent it to get rebuilt again and it lasted him 2 weeks before it took another dump. Next time it will be mhi turbo or holset

jusmx141 said:

Yes, I have one more to add to the collection.

This one would've been the first of the three to go down- it's been a year since it blew, it's just been sitting on my buddy's shelf after he upgraded to a HX40 and never looked back.

Here we have a PTE 6031E- another fine specimen of Precision's reliability. This turbo had no excessive up/down play, no sign of scoring on the shaft....but there was so much heat generated by the failed thrust washer that I literally had to cut the shaft to get the turbo apart. The compressor seal collar welded itself to the shaft.


If any of you guys buy a Precision journal bearing turbo after viewing this thread which shows three well-oiled PTE turbos dying for absolutely no reason, you're doing so at your own risk.

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Wow, another Precision bites the dust. I feel better and better by the day that I bought a HTA3586 instead of the 6262. I know they make amazing power but I am seriously starting to question PTE's quality.

i also bought a pte 6152s i beleive it was, early last year. the turbo lasteded me a total of almost 1,100 miles before shitting on me. i will NEVER buy a pte again. i did all the oil lines as told. sent back for a warranty rebuild, pooped one more time. it went in the trash in peices. it looked identicial to the above pics.

I think part of the reason dsm's are so hard on turbos is we run a lot more boost than most other platforms. That is hard on the thrust plate and collars. I've been around a lot of cars, and dsm's are the only platform where pretty much everyone making power runs 30+ psi. Thost turbo's may be fine on a v8 running 12 psi, or a honda at 20, but that huge compressor is to much of a thrust load at high boost, for a t3 plate.

A friendly DSMer who was viewing this thread just emailed me pics of his PTE 5252E that died about a month ago. As you can see from the date carved into the backplate this turbo's not that old, so the problem still exists in newly-produced turbos.

The turbine shaft's not scored or blued in the least, showing the turbo was getting plenty of oil....the thrust washer just literally melted, the same as the turbos shown above.

More pics to contribute to this "PTE = FAIL" thread:

You may want to rethink those statements. The same turbo on a 5.7 small block running 12 psi will have way more thrust load than the same turbo running 12 psi on a 2.0 liter.

donniekak said:

I think part of the reason dsm's are so hard on turbos is we run a lot more boost than most other platforms. That is hard on the thrust plate and collars. I've been around a lot of cars, and dsm's are the only platform where pretty much everyone making power runs 30+ psi. Thost turbo's may be fine on a v8 running 12 psi, or a honda at 20, but that huge compressor is to much of a thrust load at high boost, for a t3 plate.

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Some additional info from the PTE customer with the blown 5252E shown above that was exchanged through email:

"Boost was at max of 20-22 psi. The turbo was fed from the filter housing.

I spoke with Jim Burns (head of repair @ PTE) and he said that on the DSMs the stock location (head) for oil feed is not good- they recommend the filter housing. He also told me that their journal bearing turbos were not made for the DSM's and they would prefer that a Ball Bearing turbo be put on a DSM. On top of that, they really raise a brow when you tell them the balance shafts have been taken out.

Now he claims we're getting into too high of a pressure for these turbos he says! ?!? It's either too low or too high- it can't be both! Sounds like a bunch of bullshit if you ask me!!"


...another satisfied PTE customer.

You do know that PTE lost their Garrett distributorship well over a year ago, right? So, I'm pretty sure they aren't using Garrett parts anymore. They are most likely using cheap Asian stuff.

jusmx141 said:

Some additional info from the PTE customer with the blown 5252E shown above that was exchanged through email:


Now he claims we're getting into too high of a pressure for these turbos he says! ?!? It's either too low or too high- it can't be both! Sounds like a bunch of bullshit if you ask me!!"

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Isn't that technically correct? It's entirely possible that a motor with deleted balance shafts will have insufficient pressure at the head, and too much pressure at the OFH. That was the case with my car, and it took a lot of relief valve porting in addition to some 0w40 to get things back into spec.

blackrosenova40 said:

You may want to rethink those statements. The same turbo on a 5.7 small block running 12 psi will have way more thrust load than the same turbo running 12 psi on a 2.0 liter.

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Correct.

GARRETT # that noone seems to have 1-800-334-0324, and I'll do one better and give you the cell # to a tech rep 760-554-1322 !

ninesixtwo said:

...and it took a lot of relief valve porting in addition to some 0w40 to get things back into spec.

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Ever think of using a restrictor? It's the simple cure-all for over-oiling any turbocharger.

jusmx141 said:

Ever think of using a restrictor? It's the simple cure-all for over-oiling any turbocharger.

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Thought about it, decided I would rather get the oil pressure under control and then use a restrictor if neccessary. Turns out it wasn't 82psi max at cold start, <70psi when hot. Still, like I said it's entirely possible to have insufficient oil pressure at the head and too great a pressure at the OFH.

I'm the other way- I'd rather use the oil weight that is specified by the manufacturer, or even thicker for racing on hot summer days. I'd worry about the engine first and the turbo last as we have the ability to tune the oil that the turbo is seeing through use of restrictors.