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DSMlink, why so much?

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Madcap

15+ Year Contributor
57
0
Jun 7, 2006
East Douglas, Massachusetts
We all know Dsmlink is the end all be all of all tuning options for our DSM's. Why is it so damn expensive? In reality all you are buying is a cable, an Eprom and software. You would think someone else would be able to come up with something cheaper. DSMchips is similar to a degree only there's no software to make your own changes.
 
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Madcap said:
What would the R&D and manufacturing differences be between the Full Verison and Lite? The hardware would be identical. What would differ would be the number of features programmed to the Eprom and perhaps a lesser version of the software, right? Is it that costly to program every feature that a lesser version would be half the price?
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The whole point is that you're paying for all the R&D that went into all those extra features.

Less features = less time to develop = cheaper prices.
 
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Id make a huge long post about this thread, but truly it really isnt worth the time. Tom and Dave (developers) both raced dsm's, back in the days. They both have a VAST amount of knowledge when it comes too tuning, they know almost EVERY parameter when it comes to the ECUs, not by guessing...but from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. They are pushing foward with the pace to help keep us "faster" guys ahead. Back in the day DsmlinkV2.5 could support a huge amount of HP, V2 was developed when 20Gs and 50trims was considered "huge barely streetable turbos", now if you look at the top 10 fastest dsmlink cars of 2009 10.9 @ 136 is in "last place" (which is a 100% pump gas car). Id never look into another tuning system again for as long as I own a dsm, Tom and Dave put so much time and effort into making this program what it is today, as long as there in the "game" I will continue to support them and there ideas.
 
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GooeyGus said:
The whole point is that you're paying for all the R&D that went into all those extra features.

Less features = less time to develop = cheaper prices.
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All the features have already been developed. You'd just be given less. The production process would be the same. I don't see any real additional cost in programming all features.

And what happens once the intial R&D is paid for?

The guy that invented the Etch-A-Sketch can't cry "R&D Costs" forever.
 
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Madcap said:
And what happens once the intial R&D is paid for?
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Then they still have to put food on the table. This is their livelihood. Other people have graciously worked together on making free software, but it's not the case for ECMlink since this is how they make money to live on.
 
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Madcap said:
And what happens once the intial R&D is paid for?

The guy that invented the Etch-A-Sketch can't cry "R&D Costs" forever.
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What would you suggest to the guys at ECMlink then? If you were them, how would you be running the business?

It sounds like you're saying that they should drop prices to cost after their "R&D" costs have been met.
 
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Madcap said:
All the features have already been developed. You'd just be given less. The production process would be the same. I don't see any real additional cost in programming all features.

And what happens once the intial R&D is paid for?

The guy that invented the Etch-A-Sketch can't cry "R&D Costs" forever.
Click to expand...

You really don't understand how business works at all...

It's not about how much the package costs to put out the door right now. It's about the years of research when they weren't making any cash.

Look at the pharmaceutical business. Do you think it really costs $10 a pill to manufacture some medicines? Of course not. But that company had to put in years and years of R&D, and then deal with getting the product to the market. By the time the product is on the market, all the hard work is done for the most part, and it's time to reap the rewards.

Once R&D is paid for, the profit is going to fund further research for updates.

The etch-a-sketch has never fundamentally changed. DSMlink is constantly evolving, and these guys cant just sit around all day and develop a good product for free.
 
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Any car that will run 10 seconds on Dsmlink will also run 10 seconds on a custom eprom btw. Dsmlink is simply a way to change an eprom on the fly with the same code that a programer uses to edit and burn a chip. If somone found a 10 second tune that they like with Dsmlink, that same tune can be permanently burnt onto an eprom chip and they will run exactly the same 10 second pass, Dsmlink is afterall a piggyback and still has the shortcomings of the stock ecu to deal with, the only reason it sells at all is because its EASY, and no one wants to have to do any real learning. Anybody shooting for 10 second passes would be stupid to still be using dsmlink anyway, if you have those kind of supporting mods why would you not have AEM or some other standalone? the car would probably run 9 second passes. Not very smart, I've never been a fan of Dsmlink, I'm not a sheep.
 
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Madcap said:
All the features have already been developed. You'd just be given less. The production process would be the same. I don't see any real additional cost in programming all features.

And what happens once the intial R&D is paid for?

The guy that invented the Etch-A-Sketch can't cry "R&D Costs" forever.
Click to expand...

You clearly don't know anything about economics and how to run a business. You been bitchin at the price of DSMLink. Why do you think ECMLink made the lite version? Hmmm.... maybe for people that don't need as much tuning options and don't have a highly modified car? But you're bi*** about the price on the lite version. Just go buy some other EPROM or SAFC if you think that's more cost benefit.

Gawd, who shuts thread down?
 
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1gDSM4g63 said:
You clearly don't know anything about economics and how to run a business. You been bitchin at the price of DSMLink. Why do you think ECMLink made the lite version? Hmmm.... maybe for people that don't need as much tuning options and don't have a highly modified car? But you're bi*** about the price on the lite version. Just go buy some other EPROM or SAFC if you think that's more cost benefit.

Gawd, who shuts thread down?[/QUOTE]

You do, by not hitting the reply button. Not trying to be a dick, so don't take it wrong but if you don't like whats being questioned here, why continue to subscribe? you can end it at any time you want. As far as the rest of us, we are enjoying a constructive conversation, are you such a Dsmlink nutswinger that you can't stand to even see anyone question your decision to go with Dsmlink? cmon now.

You can bet that its the nature of man to believe that his decisions are the correct ones and anyone with any self esteem will defend his decisions, which is why anyone with Dsmlink is going to recommend it, and those that have'nt bought yet are going to question it (whats wrong with that?).

Dsmlink at one time was the only game in town, and thats possibly when most people became aquainted with it and boosted its popularity, nowadays though there are bigger and badder gunslingers in town, now thats a SIMPLE FACT. There are plenty of users that refuse to cut the apron strings from Dsmlink, and thats fine with me if someone wants to suckle on the Dsmlink teet the rest of their Dsm days, but its not for all of us because some of us know that there is more out there to be discovered.
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All this arguing of R&D, but we can use an evo ecm with swapping 8 wires and the cable is only 150-200 and software is FREE, Its open source, just like the dsm's. So why is it FREE? Someone put the R&D in it, from what I've seen in person it has just as many features as link. Mega squirt sofware is FREE and is run in many 900+ hp cars. I just don't see why they charge so, much myself. Now Mega Squirt is not for the average user though, so I can understand why link would be a good choice in that case. With little research it can be set up fairly easy though.
 
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If you think there is a solution out there that is enough for your goal, then go buy it. What is the point of this thread? If ECMLink is grossly overpriced for what it provides then the basic law of supply and demand will either sink ECMTuning,Inc. or their supposedly inflated prices. Email Tom and Dave this link, go get the better deal to you, and have a nice day. What is the point of this thread?

Mine, since this is a thread lamenting various opinions. . . It's more expensive because of the easier to use platform, service, initial r & d before everyone else, future updates, MORE features than evoscan/ecuflash or tunerpro or dsmap or safc/maft with keydiver or maftpro.

Now watch 20 people after me debate the last paragraph and . . . LOL suddenly ECMLink sales plummet and they go bankrupt because pricing is based on comical internet threads; not work, features, results, service, sales.
 
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Madcap said:
With all the bitchin' and moanin' aside, these are the kind of debates that spur progess.
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Progress means complaining about a tuning softwares price over some internet car forum?

There's tons of tuning options for the DSM. ECMLink is just the most popular. If you're the guy saving money with something else then just laugh at the fools who buy Link and call it a day.

I guarantee you're not changing anyones mind. Why is all the hate put towards ECMTuning anyways? What about AEM? It's been around forever, still the same price for years, yet people buy it.

Why the high price? Cause they're AEM, and they'll charge whatever they want.

Why is Link so 'expensive'? Cause it's ECMTuning and they'll charge whatever they want.

Companies with names behind them are able to do this.

Let's take it further.

Why do FP turbos cost so much? Cause it's Forced Performance and they'll charge whatever they want.

Why do HKS products cost so much? Cause it's HKS and they'll charge whatever they want.

I could go on forever.

At the end of the day people crying over the price isn't gonna spark a DSM revolution into putting these companies out of business or make them drop their prices. Sorry.

But keep fighting the good fight! :thumb:
 
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I will never change my tuning instrument:
-$60 98-99 Mitsubishi ECU (Yes you can cross flash the Ceddy ROMs to ANY 98-99 Mitsubishi ECU)
-$169 OpenPort 2.0
-Free Ceddy Mod ROM

Had made more than 50 flashes to my ECU never had a problem
The reflash has never failed me
And shutting down the for the reflash won't make me spend another $500 for the same results
 
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If you think ~$600 is unreasonable, you should see how much people are spending on K swapped cars just for tuning solutions...
 
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So it seems that each tuning system has it's own benefits and drawbacks.
It's up to each user to find the tuning system that best meets their needs.
 
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HurleyTSi said:
Progress means complaining about a tuning softwares price over some internet car forum?

There's tons of tuning options for the DSM. ECMLink is just the most popular. If you're the guy saving money with something else then just laugh at the fools who buy Link and call it a day.

I guarantee you're not changing anyones mind. Why is all the hate put towards ECMTuning anyways? What about AEM? It's been around forever, still the same price for years, yet people buy it.

Why the high price? Cause they're AEM, and they'll charge whatever they want.

Why is Link so 'expensive'? Cause it's ECMTuning and they'll charge whatever they want.

Companies with names behind them are able to do this.

Let's take it further.

Why do FP turbos cost so much? Cause it's Forced Performance and they'll charge whatever they want.

Why do HKS products cost so much? Cause it's HKS and they'll charge whatever they want.

I could go on forever.

At the end of the day people crying over the price isn't gonna spark a DSM revolution into putting these companies out of business or make them drop their prices. Sorry.

But keep fighting the good fight! :thumb:
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I disagree, Progress does not mean complaining about a tuning softwares price over some internet car forum as you suggested.

I've complained about nothing. Re-read everyone of my posts and show me one(1) complaint. I've questioned the price in the same breathe as I've admitted to purchasing it in the near future.

It's costs what it costs because they like money. It's that simple. There's no problem with that, I happen to like money too. It buys happiness. But, everyone's making excuses as to why it costs what it does for every reason other than that.

For each ridiculous excuse there are just as many ridiculous points to question.

:thumb:
 
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Madcap said:
I've complained about nothing. Re-read everyone of my posts and show me one(1) complaint. I've questioned the price in the same breathe as I've admitted to purchasing it in the near future.
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Really... what's the name of the forum?

Even though you don't see that as complaining, we all see the sarcasm and the cynical remarks. You have been complaining from the beginning all the way down to bitching about how pricey the ECMLink Lite is.

Just get some other EPROM of tuning device. The DSMLink is too advanced for you car and as much as I'd say the Lite would be perfectly suitable for you, but you just won't stop bickering over the price.

Enjoy water cause that's the only free thing you can get when you open your mouth when it's rain.
 
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1gDSM4g63 said:
Really... what's the name of the post?

Even though you don't see that as complaining, we all see the sarcasm and the cynical remarks. You have been complain for the beginning all the way down to bitching about how pricey the ECMLink Lite is.

Just get some other EPROM of tuning device. The DSMLink is too advanced for you car and as much I'd say the Lite would be perfectly suitable for you, but you just won't stop bickering over the price.

Enjoy water cause that's the only free thing you can get when you open your mouth when it's rain.
Click to expand...

It always turns personal when someone has nothing intelligent to say.
 
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Madcap said:
It always turns personal when someone has nothing intelligent to say.
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Okay, sorry for the personally remarks if it has hurt you, but no one is making excuses on why the DSMLink cost what it cost. For the price that it is now, people just see it as the most cost beneficial tuning device out there. It beats out the AFC and other EPROMs because it has more capabilities.

If you need more explaining on the price we can go into the economical standpoint of running a business that has no competition we can go into that. But as of now, people that purchased DSMLink think that the pricing is very fair considering what we got.

It's just pretty self explanatory if you do the research and compare to other options.
 
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1gDSM4g63 said:
Okay, sorry for the personally remarks if it has hurt you, but no one is making excuses on why the DSMLink cost what it cost. For the price that it is now, people just see it as the most cost beneficial tuning device out there. It beats out the AFC and other EPROMs because it has more capabilities.

If you need more explaining on the price we can go into the economical standpoint of running a business that has no competition we can go into that. But as of now, people that purchased DSMLink think that the pricing is very fair considering what we got.

It's just pretty self explanatory if you do the research and compare to other options.
Click to expand...


As you've stated you speak for everyone?

:applause:
 
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