hx40

GORBS88 · Mar 10, 2008

ceedawg said:
Then stay with the .55A/R or go with a full TS setup mani and turbine hsing with a big A/R like me.

Well i have finally made my decision and ordered my turbo. I decided to stay with the hx-40 6 blade but have stepped up to the t-3 .70 A/R and v-band outlet.
I can't wait to see what the top end difference will be from the bolt on to the t-3 .70.

mike

Steve93Talon · Mar 10, 2008

Based on my results going from the 256 in the bolt-on housing to the 258 in the .70 T3, I'd say you'll lose a little spool up (and not miss it) and gain a good amount up top. Do you have a SMIM and big enough cams to support the higher powerband?

GORBS88 · Mar 10, 2008

Steve93Talon said:
Based on my results going from the 256 in the bolt-on housing to the 258 in the .70 T3, I'd say you'll lose a little spool up (and not miss it) and gain a good amount up top. Do you have a SMIM and big enough cams to support the higher powerband?

I hope i like it, i dont mind losing a few hundred rpms since i get 20psi now by 4k.
I do have BC 272 cams but still on the stock IM.

GORBS88 · Mar 10, 2008

Hey steve when do you get full boost? Or when do you get 20psi by?

Steve93Talon · Mar 10, 2008

GORBS88 said:
I hope i like it, i dont mind losing a few hundred rpms since i get 20psi now by 4k.
I do have BC 272 cams but still on the stock IM.

GORBS88 said:
Hey steve when do you get full boost? Or when do you get 20psi by?

Same as me, FP2s and stock intake. I see 30psi by about 4700, 20 psi would probably be in the 4400 range.

GORBS88 · Mar 10, 2008

Steve93Talon said:
Same as me, FP2s and stock intake. I see 30psi by about 4700, 20 psi would probably be in the 4400 range.

That sounds good, i'm hoping i am around that area.

JusMX141 · Dec 27, 2008

GORBS88 said:
Well this was a bad day today.
I decided to turn up the boost on my hx40 today and things went wrong. Got the boost to 30psi just where i wanted and got half way thru a gear and boom, turbine wheel pieces out the exhaust and no more boost....

....so i went onto some diesel forums and then i found out that this is a common problem for these turbos since they have a weak shaft.

I've been reading up on this as well, and apparently the diesel guys only have trouble with HX40's breaking turbine shafts when their boost exceeds 40psi. What I have read only pertains to the 12-blade HX40 turbine....I'm not sure about the newer 10-blade HX40 turbine.

My take on the situation is this turbo probably came from someone that abused it on their diesel and ran high boost, fatiguing the metal in the turbine. The O.P. bolted it on his car, and didn't have a single issue while he was at low boost. As soon as the boost level went to 30psi, the hot exhaust (hotter than diesel exhaust) took the metal to a temperature where it didn't feel comfortable, and the fatigued turbine gave out.

ceedawg · Dec 28, 2008

jusmx141 said:
I've been reading up on this as well, and apparently the diesel guys only have trouble with HX40's breaking turbine shafts when their boost exceeds 40psi. What I have read only pertains to the 12-blade HX40 turbine....I'm not sure about the newer 10-blade HX40 turbine.

My take on the situation is this turbo probably came from someone that abused it on their diesel and ran high boost, fatiguing the metal in the turbine. The O.P. bolted it on his car, and didn't have a single issue while he was at low boost. As soon as the boost level went to 30psi, the hot exhaust (hotter than diesel exhaust) took the metal to a temperature where it didn't feel comfortable, and the fatigued turbine gave out.

I hope running 28psi won't be too bad.

JusMX141 · Dec 28, 2008

My HX40 is new, and I plan on running 33-34psi on my AWD when it's all done. If I break a turbine, oh well....I'll buy another one. At least I won't have Garrett's reliability issues at that boost level.

carbide · Sep 10, 2009

Bringing this back to life:

I have a Bolt-On HX40@29psi

The turbine wheel failed on my Holset for the 2ND! time two days ago. The first HX40 was bought brand new, and the turbine broke after about 500 miles. The turbo was disassembled, and turbine wheel had failed. Oil was not an issue, the bearings were perfect. I swallowed at got a new assembled center section from my local authorized Holset distributor. Went on to make about 520awhp on a dynojet at 29psi. This turbo held up for about 5,000-10,000 miles. It just failed while doing a pull. Makes me never want to run a Holset again!

My diesel repair shop's theory is that the turbo just isn't happy at such a high rpm shaft speed that happens when in use on our applications... Idk... I'm really pissed...

604CruisinCroat · Sep 10, 2009

carbide said:
Bringing this back to life:

I have a Bolt-On HX40@29psi

The turbine wheel failed on my Holset for the 2ND! time two days ago. The first HX40 was bought brand new, and the turbine broke after about 500 miles. The turbo was disassembled, and turbine wheel had failed. Oil was not an issue, the bearings were perfect. I swallowed at got a new assembled center section from my local authorized Holset distributor. Went on to make about 520awhp on a dynojet at 29psi. This turbo held up for about 5,000-10,000 miles. It just failed while doing a pull. Makes me never want to run a Holset again!

My diesel repair shop's theory is that the turbo just isn't happy at such a high rpm shaft speed that happens when in use on our applications... Idk... I'm really pissed...

I think these turbos are meant for low rpm applications.

I'm staying away from Holset and going to Borg Warner.

red1993gsallmt · Sep 10, 2009

im not sure but i think these turbos run more rpm on the diesel trucks that are pushing them to 40psi+ then they do on are cars at 30psi, this may sound like a dumb question but did you check to make sure you turbine had good clearance in the bep housing. I know with mine it wasnt hitting anything but it was too close for comfort, and you have to take in consideration the its going to expand as it heats up so i ended up cleaning the housing up with a diegrinder. Also i remember a lot of slag that i was afraid would come loose

DraginX · Sep 10, 2009

I would like to know what kind of manifolds everyone who is having big problems with these turbos are using, the last poster brought a point up that made me think it could be possible some people may be having some slag fall off the turbos and jam the blade breaking the shaft at such high rpms.

604CruisinCroat · Sep 10, 2009

red1993gsallmt said:
im not sure but i think these turbos run more rpm on the diesel trucks that are pushing them to 40psi+ then they do on are cars at 30psi, this may sound like a dumb question but did you check to make sure you turbine had good clearance in the bep housing. I know with mine it wasnt hitting anything but it was too close for comfort, and you have to take in consideration the its going to expand as it heats up so i ended up cleaning the housing up with a diegrinder. Also i remember a lot of slag that i was afraid would come loose

Diesel = low rpm...

thecman02 · Sep 10, 2009

604CruisinCroat said:
Diesel = low rpm...

Yeah, but to have that high boost pressure I'd assume the turbo would have to spool high rpm. Not the actual engine. I bet this problem might have something to do with temperatures. However I'm not sure. Carbide is running on e85. I wonder what kind of EGT's he was getting. My new engine should be back in my car in a week or so. I have a brand new bolt on hx40 with the 12/8 setup. I'm curious what kind of mileage I'll get out of the turbo before it pukes. Ohhh I'm running e85 as well.

red1993gsallmt · Sep 10, 2009

604CruisinCroat said:
Diesel = low rpm...

I think u misunderstand how a turbo works, a turbo is spun by exhaust gases and a 6cly high compression diesel flows alot more exhaust then our little four bangers. I dont know the math to figure it out but bottem line it takes "x" amount of exhaust gases to make the turbo spin fast enough to make 30psi, no to mention it has to spin alot faster to feed a 6 cly 30psi then it does to feed a dsm 30psi. Now if we were talking superchargers what you say would make sense as long as both motors have the same size pulley

kawboy · Sep 10, 2009

I'm thinking someone is bending the shaft while swapping housings, or not aligning the new housing correctly.

talondave · Sep 10, 2009

This is scary!!! I am getting a HX40 this winter and was going to sell my HX35, but after this i think i will keep my HX35 as a spare....

604CruisinCroat · Sep 10, 2009

red1993gsallmt said:
I think u misunderstand how a turbo works, a turbo is spun by exhaust gases and a 6cly high compression diesel flows alot more exhaust then our little four bangers. I dont know the math to figure it out but bottem line it takes "x" amount of exhaust gases to make the turbo spin fast enough to make 30psi, no to mention it has to spin alot faster to feed a 6 cly 30psi then it does to feed a dsm 30psi. Now if we were talking superchargers what you say would make sense as long as both motors have the same size pulley

I know how a turbo works.

I should've said, maybe for some reason the higher revving of the 4g63 has some ill effect on these turbos and aren't well suited for 4 cyl applications, and react better to diesel trucks.

TSimage · Sep 15, 2009

With a higher redline the boost is sustained for a longer period of time, add to the fact our exhaust are quite a bit hotter, who knows..

red1993gsallmt · Sep 15, 2009

TSimage said:
With a higher redline the boost is sustained for a longer period of time, add to the fact our exhaust are quite a bit hotter, who knows..

I was thinking about the heat also, anyone know what the wot exhaust temps are on a diesel, like what range they shoot for when tuning

DSMraver · Sep 17, 2009

red1993gsallmt said:
I was thinking about the heat also, anyone know what the wot exhaust temps are on a diesel, like what range they shoot for when tuning

I did a quick Google search and came up with:

Banks Power's Website said:
So the big question is, what constitutes excessive EGT? If everything is working properly, 1250º to 1300º F. is a safe turbine inlet temperature, even for sustained running, mile after mile. Above 1300º F. things can start to get edgy. Remember, excessive EGT damage is cumulative. Over 1400º F., you're usually gambling against a stacked deck and it's only a matter of time until you lose. The higher the EGT, the shorter that time will be.

The damage they refer to isn't turbocharger/turbine related, it's engine related.

red_devil · Sep 17, 2009

kawboy said:
I'm thinking someone is bending the shaft while swapping housings, or not aligning the new housing correctly.

This could also be true. With my HX40 the housing was pretty much welded on there. I tried my hardest not to damage the wheel when I took it apart. Still ended up bending the wheel to the point that it just could not balance out. So now it has a brand new wheel and so far working fine.

aero_sallee · Sep 17, 2009

TSimage said:
With a higher redline the boost is sustained for a longer period of time, add to the fact our exhaust are quite a bit hotter, who knows..

Definitely not for a longer time than on a diesel. You have to consider the diesel isn't on boost to accelerate like we are. The Holset's on my families Case IH combines run on an 8.3 Cummins. Both running an HE431V, and a HE551V, run 25+ psi for 12+ hours straight. Spiking to 33-36 intermittently. The HX40 we had on one of them last year would run 23-24 continuous, and spike to 29.

The only holset turbo failures we have had, one was an H1e that the CHRA to TH bolts came loose and the housing contacted the turbine wheel. My uncle had one die on his 8.3 from a injector failure melting a piston and sending fragments through the turbo. And I had an HX40 on my DSm die due to a spun bearing and oil contamination.

Hotter, yes in most cases.

kp116 · Sep 17, 2009

I have been running my hx40 with the bep housing pretty hard all year and haven't had a problem with it....

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