Car: '92 AWD laser 5speed manual
Maint: all done
Mods: ACT 2100, walbro 255, 550 injectors, 2g maf, dejon intake, K&N, ported 2G ex. manifold and o2 housing, ported 7cm turnine housing, RX7 wheels, Punishement FMIC w/ stock BOV recirculating, logger, boost gauge and maybe a few more.
The car is still pushing through the stock exhaust cat and all and has no fuel management right now, but i am able to see knock on my logger. At 17psi i was seeing upwards of 10counts of knock between 5500-7000 rpms, so i mixed in some C16 to supress the knock. That seemed to work. Another thing worth mentioning is i still have the stock 1g Banana Shift Knob. I blame this mostly on missing my gears.
I made a couple passes going 13.4 @100 to 13.2 @102 with a 60' time of 1.74 to 1.85 but out of 5 passes i made tonight, i missed 4th gear 3 times and on my last pass it actually made its way in to 2nd gear! I didn't think it reved too high before i pushed the clutch in.
On the way home the idle is a little lower about 700 instead of 750, when coming to a stop the car stalls out, and now i'm hearing a couple bad noises. I limped the car home at 55 mph (2500) rpms carefully and heard some weird noises pulling up to the house. Inspected it some but it was 11pm so i'll have to look at it tomorrow more. I was impressed with the 13.2 time pushing through the stock exhaust at that low of boost with no fuel management. But if my junk is screwed it was not worth it. Man it's always something isn't it?

"Man it's always something isn't it?"
^---no truer words have been stated, I know just where your coming from.

Good job man, how hot was it outside? I ask because I see less knock than that on the stock sidemount running 20psi on a 14b. Good 60's too. Get an exhaust and you'll be in the 12s for sure.

It was 83*f that yesterday and very humid and muggy out the last run it was still well in the 70*'s outside. All considering i was happy with the times and 60'. But now that i'm home from work i can take a look and see what's up with the car. If i have time before the family BBQ. Food is the one thing that i take over the dsm.

BTW: weighed the car and had a race weight of 2,820 w/o driver
If i had a tow rig i could drop alot more weight and leave it in the truck. Stock suspension obviously

Travis-- not a bad start at all, except for the mis shifting, that sucks, it has happend to me in the past. If it's stalling out theres a good chance you bent some valves. Hopefully it's not that bad. The pics looked good too. The exhaust is definitely holding you, obviously. The stock shift knob is not the greatest for shifting fast, especially on the 2-3 shift. Well, sorry to hear about the possible problem, but, not a bad start. Keep us posted.

Yeah i got the car home ok at about 11pm friday and i've been working, going to family BBQ/graduation parties, and out drinking at night since then so i haven't had a chance to look at the car yet. When i got the car I did a compression test and it tested low at about 105-110 across the board, so i did a cylinder leak down test and it did show some blow by pointing to worn rings (if i used it right, according to the manual it points to worn rings). The car was running really strong at that point when the weather was decent so I figured I would push it and see what happens. I was hoping to make it to winter and then do a rebuild/overhaul of the bottom end.

When the car went in to 2nd from third i quickly realized and re-engaged the clutch but since i was at 7000 rpms before going into 2nd i'm quessing the rpms immediately went past redline??? Do any of the ecu chips have the ability to have a rev limiter to prevent this so I don't go through this again? The shifter bushings on my shift cables at the trans are worn so i'm going to replace them with solid bushings and i'm sure that wasn't helping me find fourth gear at redline either.

Any recommendations on what to inspect to see how bad it might be. IE: another comp. test? Boost leak test? Cylinder pressure test? All of the above and some? Thanks guys, and thanks Phil for chiming in and keeping the interest.
Next time I go back to the track i'll atleast run open DP.

Travis

Gooberlog said:

Do any of the ecu chips have the ability to have a rev limiter to prevent this so I don't go through this again?
Any recommendations on what to inspect to see how bad it might be. IE: another comp. test? Boost leak test? Cylinder pressure test? All of the above and some? Thanks guys, and thanks Phil for chiming in and keeping the interest.
Next time I go back to the track i'll atleast run open DP.

Travis

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The stock revlimit is 7500rpm. Any revlimit can be programmed into a custom eprom though.

I would do the compression and leakdown test for starters!

Gooberlog said:

Car: '92 AWD laser 5speed manual
Maint: all done
Mods: ACT 2100, walbro 255, 550 injectors, 2g maf, dejon intake, K&N, ported 2G ex. manifold and o2 housing, ported 7cm turnine housing, RX7 wheels, Punishement FMIC w/ stock BOV recirculating, logger, boost gauge and maybe a few more.

Click to expand...

You have all these mods and no fuel management? I dont see an afpr either. What is going on here...

Gooberlog said:

Yeah i got the car home ok at about 11pm friday and i've been working, going to family BBQ/graduation parties, and out drinking at night since then so i haven't had a chance to look at the car yet. When i got the car I did a compression test and it tested low at about 105-110 across the board, so i did a cylinder leak down test and it did show some blow by pointing to worn rings (if i used it right, according to the manual it points to worn rings). The car was running really strong at that point when the weather was decent so I figured I would push it and see what happens. I was hoping to make it to winter and then do a rebuild/overhaul of the bottom end.

When the car went in to 2nd from third i quickly realized and re-engaged the clutch but since i was at 7000 rpms before going into 2nd i'm quessing the rpms immediately went past redline??? Do any of the ecu chips have the ability to have a rev limiter to prevent this so I don't go through this again? The shifter bushings on my shift cables at the trans are worn so i'm going to replace them with solid bushings and i'm sure that wasn't helping me find fourth gear at redline either.

Any recommendations on what to inspect to see how bad it might be. IE: another comp. test? Boost leak test? Cylinder pressure test? All of the above and some? Thanks guys, and thanks Phil for chiming in and keeping the interest.
Next time I go back to the track i'll atleast run open DP.

Travis

Click to expand...

ok, first things first here....this is a mis-shift from 3rd down to second, a missed 4th shift. Even if you think you reacted very quickly, it may not have been quick enough. I hate to say it but... ok, first pull timing covers and check timing....also, rev limiter means nothing here at all, this is a mechanical over-rev situation. Many times the t-belt will jump in a mechanical overrev situation. It's a matter of how much and if it did is there is any internal damage. After inspecting, if you see the belt is off, time it to spec, fire the engine again, or do comp and leakdown first if you want to be extremely cautious. That is where I would start......I'm here to help man....anytime.....

rEclipserGST said:

You have all these mods and no fuel management? I dont see an afpr either. What is going on here...

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yeah i ran a walbro 255 HP on my old 1g with no AFPR with out any problems. It's one of those things that some people sware you need and others say don't bother. For 1g's it's not as critical as on 2g's if I remember reading correctly.
As as for 550s and the walbro w/o any tuning device, yeah that was kinda risky but i checked things out with the logger and only saw knock at high rpms at full boost of about 17psi. So i wanted the get rid of the knock before racing so i mixed in some C-16 117octane and that made the knock go away. Optimal for the set up- NO. Cheapest way to race on the current set up, probably.
Neither of these were the cause of my problems though, that was due to a mis shift as Phil stated above.

Phil1320 said:

ok, first things first here....this is a mis-shift from 3rd down to second, a missed 4th shift. Even if you think you reacted very quickly, it may not have been quick enough. I hate to say it but... ok, first pull timing covers and check timing....also, rev limiter means nothing here at all, this is a mechanical over-rev situation. Many times the t-belt will jump in a mechanical overrev situation. It's a matter of how much and if it did is there is any internal damage. After inspecting, if you see the belt is off, time it to spec, fire the engine again, or do comp and leakdown first if you want to be extremely cautious. That is where I would start......I'm here to help man....anytime.....

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Yeah that about sums up what happened. I was hoping you wouldn't say that. I was thinking that the misshift would be mechanical due to the trans multiplying the out put based on the shorter gear.
Tomorrow my buddies garage should be open and i'm going to limp it there carefully (about 1 mile) and check the timing. I was planing on doing a compression test and pulling the Valve cover too to take a peek.
I'll let you know what i find. Thanks as always.
Travis

Good luck man...hopefully it isn't that bad.... Lemmie know.

The timing marks line up, except for the oil pump gear? Balance shaft, crank gear, cams but the oil pump gear doesn't line up. Any way the noise sounds like a bad bearing inside somewhere. I can' t tell where it's coming from even when using my automotive stethascope.
On top of that the inner water pump pulley wore in to the timing cover but the pump and pullies seem ok and the timing cover didn't apear to move? Wierd
I'm not sure what to do to narrow down this noise more with out yanking the engine.
I might have to remove the timing belt to spin the oil pump and tensioner pullies etc. to rule them out.
This blows.

Gooberlog said:

The timing marks line up, except for the oil pump gear? Balance shaft, crank gear, cams but the oil pump gear doesn't line up. Any way the noise sounds like a bad bearing inside somewhere. I can' t tell where it's coming from even when using my automotive stethascope.
On top of that the inner water pump pulley wore in to the timing cover but the pump and pullies seem ok and the timing cover didn't apear to move? Wierd
I'm not sure what to do to narrow down this noise more with out yanking the engine.
I might have to remove the timing belt to spin the oil pump and tensioner pullies etc. to rule them out.
This blows.

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Yeah, I would pull the belt and definitely check everything.....it's ok man, now it's just time to identify, confirm, and repair.

My buddy Dsm Dr. Bob came over and listened to the car. He had this happened to him before on his old car. When i initially used the stethascope on the engine i thought that the noise was most localized to the rear lower of the block by the rear balance shaft. Bob also confirmed this after listening for a bit. He then explained to me the process of installing the Balance Shaft Eliminator and how this might not be that big of deal. I did some more researching on old threads on here about this and this does sound like my problem. Tomorrow if work permits enough time i'll try to drop the oil pan and inspect my rear balance shaft bearing and tonight i plan to order a new stub shaft etc.
I guess as long as my bottom end bearings aren't trashed and all i have to do is install a BSE then this is more of an unplanned upgrade and weight mod then engine failure.
I already told myself, this car i'm in it for the long haul. So if it breaks, it'll just have to sit till i get the money. Thanks for keeping me positive and giving me hope, i'll let you know what i find asap.
Travis

That would be great if thats all it was. A buddy of mine was just talking about someone that had a problem with the rear balance shaft and bearings and an associated noise, how crazy is that? Let's hope that's it. And, like you said, it will be like doing a mod to the car as well. Last I was around a dissassembled 4G63 from a DSM was when I worked at Extreme. I remember weighing the balance shafts...about 7.5 lbs. a piece! The EVO shafts by contrast weigh only 1.5 lbs. a piece. Well, hopefully you'll be running again within a week or so.......

get a new shift knob and replace any worn bushings and solid mount the shifter base!

Well i worked on the car for a couple hours so far this morning and I'm taking a break for a min. I got the downpipe dropped and removed all of the heat shields from the stock DP "yes I'm still running on the stock turbo back exhaust" and that stuff alone was a pound or so. I got the transfer case off and on the bench. Cross member mount is off and the trans is supported with the jack, also the driver's axle carrier bearing is disconnected. All i have to do now is remove the oil pan bolts, drop the pan and hope to find the balance bearing and not some other surprise. It was kinda anti-clamatic for me to take a break right before pulling the pan and finding out the truth about my noise, but the garage i work out of is at my buddies house a mile or so from my house and one of the few things the garage doesn't have other than a lift is a bathroom. I could go in his house but he has 3 dogs so it's actually easier to go home, Ha. Besides after laying under the car and lifting, cuting, hammering, ratcheting for hours i could use a break. Technically I'm "working" right now, which is an added bonus. I'm on call and live close to the shop i work out of so i can just hang out at the house or work on the dsm in my buddies garage and just drop what I'm doing and get to work in about 10 min.

I'll be removing the oil pan after i get some lunch. Wish me luck on my findings.
BTW: last night i ordered the stub shaft, front case gaskets and seals, along with the transmission shifter bushings "solid", and i have some nylon shifter base bushings in the garage. I do need to get a knob though, i love the Evo 8/9 ones.

Well.......what's the word? Hopefully not too bad...........

Well this afternoon, after removing more parts than expected, i finally got the oil pan off. I unexpectedly removed the flywheel dust shield, clutch slave cylinder, and even then the oil pan had to be finagled every which way possible to get it out. I'm thinking getting the pan back on the block w/o messing up the RTV will be a task.

Well I got the pan down and found the rear balance shaft bearing destroyed and flattened along with metal chunks in the valley of the oil pan. I did not see any metal in the head when i removed the valve cover and the crank and rods look clean too. I ran a couple quarts of fossil oil through so far. All things considered, this was a good turn out...so far. I expected this is what it was, parts were ordered last night so now i at least have the chance to be back up and running soon.

The thing I'm concerned about now is getting the front cover with the oil pump off the car with the engine still in the car. I'm worried about clearance issues with the front cover coming out with the balance shafts attached. I'll be doing some more research tonight as my parts will probably be waiting for me tomorrow afternoon.

I took the oil pan to my work, cleaned up the metal shavings and got the old RTV off the pan, then bathed the pan and cleaned 17 years worth of oil and grease off of the pan. Then some small rust spots were revealed so when i got back to the house i sprayed the pan with some black hammer finish and it turned out pretty nice. Batteries died in my camera so i had to use the wife's here.

Tomorrow I'd like to remove the front cover with the oil pump, remove the rear balance shaft and scrape the rtv off of the block and prepare to install the stub shaft. Any other ideas or thoughts or comments. Thanks
Travis

Not bad so far.......let's hope that's all it is and you'll be running in no time

Damn them bearings are wrecked though....

yeah i told you she made some noise. I think the next time i'll have a chance to work on it some more will be some time Saturday. I am most worried about getting the front cover/oil pump off the block with the engine in the car "i researched the heck out of this and couldn't find actual confirmation that it will fit with the balance shafts connected or not or what ever". My next main concern is getting the oil pan reinstalled with the RTV sealant on it because the oil pan was such a pain to get out when i wasn't even concerned about messing up the gasket sealant.
One other question if you may know, does the waterpump have to be removed to remove the front cover? I had not planned on this and it looks close. Thanks again, and oh by the way, the parts were on the front steps when i got off work today. Props to extremepsi.com.
Travis

Gooberlog said:

yeah i told you she made some noise. I think the next time i'll have a chance to work on it some more will be some time Saturday. I am most worried about getting the front cover/oil pump off the block with the engine in the car "i researched the heck out of this and couldn't find actual confirmation that it will fit with the balance shafts connected or not or what ever". My next main concern is getting the oil pan reinstalled with the RTV sealant on it because the oil pan was such a pain to get out when i wasn't even concerned about messing up the gasket sealant.
One other question if you may know, does the waterpump have to be removed to remove the front cover? I had not planned on this and it looks close. Thanks again, and oh by the way, the parts were on the front steps when i got off work today. Props to extremepsi.com.
Travis

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From people I've talked to, you can definitely remove the front cover with the engine in the car....obviously, the car needs to be at a good height on jackstands(or lift)in order to get enough downward angle to remove it. Not sure on water pump removal, if it is required....I think you could clear it with the front plate but I have not done it recently and don't remember from Extreme days. Even if it does, that's a quick removal. Good luck and keep me posted!

Cool, i was hoping that you knew that it could be removed while in the car. I'll let you know about the waterpump. I'm spending tonight with the wife and tomorrow i'll work on the car some. Thanks again.

So around 6 pm i finished the car and started it up. For a side note, the water pump did not have to be removed to get the front cover off. To get the oil pan back on successfully i had to remove the cross member that is below the timing covers. All seems well and i also had some friend's chip in and help out. I have solid bushings on the shifter cables and shifter base now, and hacked through the down pipe to cat bolts. The bolts were rusted to hell, so i removed the whole cat and cat back for now and got the cat off. My buddy is going to drill out the holes on the cat flanges so that i can reinstall the cat for street use until i get a turbo back exhaust.
Right now i have a cheap car quest filter on and some fossil Autozone Oil waiting to be changed out to flush any remaining metal fragments. I'll be installing a K&N gold oil filter and Mobil one 5w-30 synthetic oil tomorrow. The car pulled good and no abnormal noises other than the open DP. Thanks for your motivation and positive attitude. I got this thing back up and running sooner than i expected and the only money i spent was:
$25 shifter cable bushings
$13 balance stub shaft for oil pump gear
$20 front case gasket / seal kit
$18 cheapy oil change
$**synthetic oil change.
Just goes to show how much $ you save working on your own junk. That would probably been a 12+hr job at a shop.
More updates and photos soon.
Do you think i should race it friday night with my buddies?

Travis