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CUT Balance shaft Belt [Merged 6-7]cutting belts remove

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Sorry I'm a noob, but I actually think the balance shaft belt wasn't my problem, it was just snapped and I found it when I took the timing belt cover off. The oil pump (I think) was on the bottom of the oil pan, and something flew up and knocked it off, causing me to lose oil like no other. Also, I think my crankshaft positioning sensor went out, which may be why it is not starting. I going to replace the timing belt, balance shaft belt, and crankshaft and cam position sensors, and see where that takes me. We strobe-tested the timing, and it all checked out, so I'm pretty sure my timing didn't jump.

The pickup tube is in the oil pan but the pump itself is located in the aluminum timing case. The gears are located behind the bottom right sprocket that also turns the rear balance shaft. If something flew up and knocked it off then you lost all your oil and therefore have probably destroyed all of your bearings. Is the car cranking or not? Because a crankshaft position sensor won't have anything to do with it not cranking. You need to pull the pan off and check everything before you try turning the motor over again and damage even more stuff. You also need to pull the timing cover off because using a timing light will only tell you about base timing not mechanic timing. I wouldn't replace the cam or crank sensor unless it isn't putting out any voltage while cranking. Which you should check after you get a new pan and check your bearings.
 
Ok so while looking for my oil leak I came to find out my balance shaft is totally off and wrapped itself on the timing belt pulley. I guess im just lucky I caught it before it threw my timing belt off. My question is...Could I just remove the belt from the balance shaft and leave it off? Or wouldnt that work? btw the motor is still in the car and the car is a 95gst so I cant just put a balance shaft removal kit on. what do you guys suggest? Thanks in advance!
 
The same thing happened to me on one I picked up that needed a water pump. I just took it out and left it with no ill effects other than minor vibration here and there. Not bad at all though. I would suggest doing the bse kit/ t belt /tensioner if you plan on keeping it.
 
The same thing happened to me on one I picked up that needed a water pump. I just took it out and left it with no ill effects other than minor vibration here and there. Not bad at all though. I would suggest doing the bse kit/ t belt /tensioner if you plan on keeping it.

mine needs a waterpump too. Thanks man, thats the answer I was looking for! :hellyeah:
 
i drove my car with a broken balance shaft belt for 4 months :)

you will notice just a minor vibration here and there ( once you are doing a timing or water pump job do the necessary for the balance shaft)

keep your eye always on your oil pressure gauge as it will be higher due to the broken balance shaft
 
i drove my car with a broken balance shaft belt for 4 months :)

you will notice just a minor vibration here and there ( once you are doing a timing or water pump job do the necessary for the balance shaft)

keep your eye always on your oil pressure gauge as it will be higher due to the broken balance shaft

Just having the belt off won't make the oil pressure higher. The oil is still being sent through the bearings. The oil pressure goes up once you turn the bearings to block oil flow. I left my front balance shaft in (without the belt) on two cars that I did. I always just cut the rear one off and weld the hole shut and put it back in the oil pump instead of buying a stub shaft.
 
Figured I would post my question here instead of making a new thread. Alright, so I bought my 93 TSi AWD back in November off of my now girl friend. When I bought it, her father (who did all of the work on the car) said when they bought it back in 2003, the previous owner said there was no balance shaft belt. So the car has been ran with no belt since at least 2000.

I recently did a head swap with a brand new head (new valves, springs, cams, the whole deal) due to some bent valves from the timing jumping. I bought new everything. I figured I would put the balance shaft belt on since no one said anything about a balance shaft elimination. Got everything put together, fired up the car and there was a loud, weird knock.

I thought the bottom end was junk. Spun bearing, rod, etc. Well, to be sure I was at TDC when doing the timing for the 100th time, I used the screw driver in the plug/hole on the back of the block. Screwdriver went the entire length in. When turning the crank, oil sprocket, etc., nothing happened with the screwdriver. Oh and there was no plug/bolt. Just a hole.

So, I am almost positive there was no rear balance shafts. Someone must have taken them off a real long time ago. That is the only logical reason I can come up with if I didn't feel anything at all with the screwdriver in the hole.

From what I have gathered, the balance shaft belt only runs the front balance shaft. The rear balance shaft is driven off of the oil pump sprocket and turned via the timing belt. Correct? A few DSMer's have told me they thought my noise is most likely coming from the balance shaft(s). What would be making the noise?

Maybe the front b/s is junk and from not being turned in over 10 years, it makes noise for whatever reason? Not to mention I am turning only one balance shaft since the rear balance shaft is gone?
 
YES!! Lol. Makes me feel better to get a reply with good news. But, need some more reply's. As well as an explanation as to why it is making such a loud knocking noise.

You might have to tell us why, on that one.
If it were me, I'd drop the pan and if need be start removing timing components to get to the bottom of it.

Alternatively, you could just remove your lower timing cover and cut out the bs belt again and hopefully have the car running the way it was before.

You could even do the latter, and then the former, if you had to.

One thing I didn't understand clearly, was that you seemed to indicate that your pistons do not move? You said the screwdriver went no where so I'm not sure what exactly what you mean to say.
 
The screwdriver is supposed to prevent the engine from rotating while doing your belt or whatever. It does this by locking the balance shafts in place. With no balance shaft in the rear, there's nothing to "lock". This is just what I have been reading for the passed two days of searching on here.

Also, the Hayne's manual says roughly the same thing. Just a very crappy way with not as much information.
 
I have seen a "well respected shop" that supports DSMtuners do a balance shaft delete where they leave the belt and front BS sprocket on but cut the shafts out. I guess to avoid installing that "super expensive freeze plug". I couldnt believe it. They messed that kids car up so bad. Luckily I fixed him up and then he ran a 12.5 on an Evo III 16g the next weekend.

Maybe the previous owner did that. I have no idea on earth why they would, but who knows... Drop the pan and check it out.
 
I have seen a "well respected shop" that supports DSMtuners do a balance shaft delete where they leave the belt and front BS sprocket on but cut the shafts out. I guess to avoid installing that "super expensive freeze plug". I couldnt believe it. They messed that kids car up so bad. Luckily I fixed him up and then he ran a 12.5 on an Evo III 16g the next weekend.

Maybe the previous owner did that. I have no idea on earth why they would, but who knows... Drop the pan and check it out.

What exactly happened to his car? Any knocks? Noises?
 
the bearing for the front balance shaft could have gone bad causing the shaft to hit the block. if there is no rear shaft do not put the belt on as it is not required and could break then take out the timing belt. it would be a good idea to verify that the oil pump silent shaft was deleted properly and the bearings were rotated 180*

Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit Install
 
What exactly happened to his car? Any knocks? Noises?

No they just told him they did a bunch of things they really never did. He told me it had "this and that" done. As I tore into I found it he was lied to.

Did you overtighten the BS belt? it needs a 1/4" of deflection or otherwise it will cause horrible vibrations?
 
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the bearing for the front balance shaft could have gone bad causing the shaft to hit the block. if there is no rear shaft do not put the belt on as it is not required and could break then take out the timing belt. it would be a good idea to verify that the oil pump silent shaft was deleted properly and the bearings were rotated 180*

Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit Install

Thanks for the response. I have read that vfaq BSE write up top to bottom. Very good read.

I think the BSE on my engine was half assed. Just from the sprocket still being on there tells me it isn't done quite as well as it should have.

But if the front shaft did go bad, now spinning with the belt on, causing it to hit the block, that would definitely make for some loud knocking noises. Hopefully, that's my case and there is not much damage from it.

No they just told him they did a bunch of things they really never did. He told me it had "this and that" done. As I tore into I found it he was lied to.

Did you overtighten the BS belt? it needs a 1/4" of deflection or otherwise it will cause horrible vibrations?

Balance shaft belt has perfect tenision. Everything was done the way I was supposed to do it. The noise isn't really a vibration at all. Sounds like a rod pounding its way out of the block LOL. Real loud. But, not consistent. Sure it gets louder and faster with the RPM's but sometimes it goes away for like 10 seconds or more. Sometimes it's fast, other times it is slow.
 
i personally have no plans to remove the b shaft on my current build. its like removing the ac. the hp gains are minimal at best. and it only stands to reason that the vibrations would increase without it. not for me. putting in all new belts and bearings(well the machinist is)
 
I have done it a few ways.

Way back in the day on a few diff motors(none where damaged cause of this). We just removed the front belt and left everything else there. Never had a prob.

When I did my 63/64 build I did the DIY BSE and instead of drilling and tapping then thread locking a bolt in the rear shaft I cut it down to where it needed to be and just welded up the hole. Never had a prob from this either.

Both have worked for me with out any problems. I am not by anymeans saying either is the right or wrong way to do it just thought I would mention the ways I have done it.

Oh and just to add a little more info. On one of the ones we just removed the belt and did nothing else. It was back in 99 or 00 when we put a Evo3 motor in a 98 spyder turbo car. The car is still running and driving now with no probs.
 
So I pulled the engine out of my car to do part replacements and inspect everything else. Found my balance shaft belt to be shredded inside the timing cover. What's the worst that could happen with no balance shaft belt hooked up¿ I'm sure the balance shaft wouldn't spin obviously, but what would that do to the engine?
 
Holy crap, thanks... good info right there. Glad I wasn't planning to do any of that. Just called to price the belt and its fairly cheap so I think I'll be getting one. Weird thing is, there was no vibration at all. But then again my damn turbo was held on by 1 freaking bolt and had no power loss. This is what I learned AFTER removing the engine. Good thing I did it.....WTF. :pray:
 
This was just posted on another thread and is still in my clipboard. Handy that clipboard.

I see nothing in the description of the problem to indicate that the balance shaft bearings are OK but only the belt was bad.

When the balance shaft bearings seize the balance shaft belt breaks.

The balance shaft bearings wear out faster than the main or rod bearings. At 183,000 miles on my Talon the main and rod bearings were like new but the balance shaft bearings were worn to near end of life. I choose to replace the bearings and keep the balance shafts.
 
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