toofast82 said:

"They" is Tim's Turbos which was who i bought my bolt on housing from almost 3years ago
Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet
They also have for t4 inlet

Click to expand...

Wow T4 inlet available as well! 170.00 is a great price. They may still have the T3.55AR hsing as well.

toofast82 said:

"They" is Tim's Turbos which was who i bought my bolt on housing from almost 3years ago
Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet
They also have for t4 inlet

Click to expand...

Thanks!

I think I'll be doing T3 after all..

BTW How did you confirm the A/R on the t3 inlet bolton housings?

There is no difference in flow between the bolton small bep housing and the t3 small bep housing. Considering the good mitsu-flanged manifold options now available as well as the o2 housing options, I don't see the point of going t3 with the small housing. If you want a proven 600whp exhaust manifold, fp makes a mitsu-flanged unit and you can get a good flowing tubular 02 housing or build one yourself.

. . . You're already setup with a good mitsu-flanged tubular manifold.

Is the t3/mitsu housing only in .55ar? That sucks! I thought that was the .70ar. Guess I should have looked a little closer! Sorry to get anyone excited! Yeah there would be no point in that than. So you can only get .70ar vband discharge than?

toofast82 said:

"They" is Tim's Turbos which was who i bought my bolt on housing from almost 3years ago
Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet
They also have for t4 inlet

Click to expand...

Make sure you call them first and double check they have them.

Iroc_g said:

Im curious about opinions on the T3 vs mitsu as well. Ive been leaning towards the T3, because ive been learning that the more flow per PSI is going to be less pront to knock. Is this true? Also, I read that somebody suggested the T3 .55ar housing. In conversations I have had with The Turbo Trader, he said the T3 housings are all .70ar, and 3"vband outlet. Am I missing somthing here?

Also, in a few psots up, I saw somebody say that HX40 spool is 4100 mitsu housing, 4500 T3 housing in fourth gear! I know this isn't a fair comparrison, but my EVO3 could spool 24PSI well under 3K in fourth if I stomped it at like 30MPH in fourth.

Click to expand...

Here's a log of a Stock Block/Head/Intake mani / BC272 / HX40 / FP Race Mani / FP Intake / 3" DP w/ 3" Cutout showing 20psi at 3900rpms. The t3 .70 a/r bep housing is about 400rpms later.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachments/turbo-system-tech/90489d1230442626-thoughts-new-turbo-hx40-datalog-50lbmin-20psi-3900rpms-.dat

Dsmlink thread here if you have dsm/ecmlink.

Log file in text format:

Timestamp (us),RPM (rpm),AirFlow (lb/min),GM3Bar (-inHg/+psi)
0,3505,7.7,1.1
58396,3482,7.8,1.3
114816,3482,7.8,1.4
172212,3498,8.0,1.6
230032,3518,8.1,1.6
287028,3501,8.2,1.8
344436,3524,8.5,2.0
401844,3531,8.8,2.3
460144,3531,8.9,3.0
516660,3534,9.1,3.0
574068,3544,9.4,3.2
631476,3561,9.5,3.6
688884,3575,9.6,3.9
747252,3565,9.8,3.8
803712,3589,10.1,3.9
861108,3568,10.3,4.7
918844,3623,10.7,4.8
975928,3602,10.7,5.0
1033332,3606,10.9,5.6
1090744,3641,11.3,5.4
1148148,3630,11.5,5.9
1205556,3644,11.7,5.9
1262964,3637,12.0,6.6
1320372,3637,12.2,6.6
1377792,3680,12.6,7.3
1435188,3695,12.9,7.5
1492600,3662,13.2,8.1
1550008,3713,13.6,8.8
1607424,3713,14.0,8.6
1664820,3724,14.4,9.1
1722228,3746,14.9,9.7
1780552,3717,15.1,10.2
1837044,3792,16.0,10.8
1894452,3765,16.2,11.3
1952236,3788,16.7,12.2
2009272,3796,17.3,11.8
2066676,3796,17.6,13.1
2124084,3827,18.4,14.0
2181492,3842,19.2,14.7
2238900,3854,20.0,15.4
2296312,3870,20.7,16.3
2353728,3878,21.6,17.2
2411124,3890,22.3,18.3
2468588,3898,23.2,18.6
2525940,3935,24.1,19.9
2583348,3956,24.9,21.0
2640760,3960,25.4,21.3
2698648,3981,25.8,21.3
2755632,4019,26.2,22.2
2812984,4041,26.7,23.1
2870580,4045,26.9,23.3
2927796,4050,26.9,24.0
2985436,4085,27.3,23.7
3042612,4094,27.6,24.0
3100020,4125,27.8,24.0
3157428,4112,27.7,24.4
3214836,4167,28.1,24.4
3272248,4199,28.2,24.2
3329652,4162,28.0,24.9
3387060,4237,28.4,24.2
3444508,4247,28.6,24.7
3502148,4266,28.8,24.0
3559296,4291,29.1,24.2
3617056,4320,29.3,24.7
3674120,4315,29.5,24.7
3731520,4376,29.9,24.0
3789588,4401,30.1,24.0
3846324,4407,30.4,24.2
3903744,4459,30.9,24.2
3961140,4438,31.1,24.7
4018552,4475,31.5,25.1
4075956,4475,31.4,25.1
4133552,4502,31.7,25.1
4190824,4562,32.1,24.7
4248180,4568,32.3,24.6
4305588,4601,32.6,24.7
4364068,4613,32.9,25.3
4420404,4624,33.1,25.1
4477924,4630,32.9,24.9
4535788,4693,33.4,24.4
4592632,4699,33.3,25.1
4650036,4670,33.2,24.9
4707444,4717,33.7,25.4
4765240,4777,34.4,25.4
4822288,4759,34.3,25.3
4879668,4789,35.0,25.4
4937588,4826,35.4,25.4
4994496,4851,35.6,25.3
5052380,4876,35.7,25.1
5109304,4915,36.7,25.3
5166708,4934,36.8,25.4
5224120,4908,36.7,25.3
5281524,4987,37.2,25.8
5338944,4967,36.6,25.8
5396340,5020,37.0,26.0
5453748,5034,37.2,25.1
5511156,5027,37.0,25.6
5568620,5102,37.6,25.4
5625984,5061,37.5,26.0
5683560,5109,37.8,24.9
5740824,5137,38.3,26.0
5798196,5137,38.2,25.4
5855604,5194,38.9,25.4
5913156,5172,38.9,26.2
5970808,5252,39.5,25.8
6028028,5252,39.6,25.6
6085248,5237,39.7,26.0
6142656,5252,40.0,26.2
6200052,5312,40.5,26.2
6257796,5334,40.4,26.9
6314872,5403,41.0,25.6
6372652,5380,41.1,26.2
6429696,5403,41.4,26.5
6487116,5411,41.5,26.0
6544552,5466,42.3,26.3
6602432,5443,42.4,26.0
6660036,5523,43.0,25.8
6717268,5515,42.9,26.3
6774484,5523,43.3,26.5
6831540,5531,43.2,26.3
6888952,5547,43.3,27.2
6947320,5589,43.7,26.3
7003768,5648,44.3,26.9
7061184,5605,44.1,27.1
7118584,5656,44.6,26.5
7176648,5716,45.0,26.3
7234556,5725,45.2,27.1
7290844,5699,45.2,27.2
7348252,5734,45.5,27.1
7405664,5760,45.8,26.5
7463080,5787,46.1,26.5
7520476,5769,45.8,26.5
7578992,5796,46.2,27.1
7635820,5859,46.9,27.2
7692712,5814,46.3,26.7
7750108,5832,46.6,27.1
7807548,5850,47.0,26.9
7865880,5878,47.3,27.1
7922392,5962,48.1,27.1
7979808,5962,47.8,26.5
8037744,5990,48.1,26.9
8094612,5934,47.9,27.6
8153076,5971,48.4,27.1
8209432,6029,49.0,27.2
8267672,6058,49.2,27.6
8324672,6058,48.9,27.1
8381652,6078,49.2,26.9
8439064,6058,49.0,26.7
8497008,6107,48.7,27.6
8553876,6148,49.7,27.6
8612104,6219,50.3,27.2
8668704,6260,50.1,27.1
8726224,6178,49.9,27.4
8783512,6168,49.8,27.2
8840920,6198,50.1,28.1
8898328,6250,50.1,26.9
8955784,6250,50.0,27.8
9013140,6219,49.8,27.2
9070552,6271,49.8,27.1
9127956,6313,50.6,28.1
9185756,6399,51.0,26.5
9242776,6432,30.0,22.2
9300180,6137,5.8,1.1
9357600,6098,2.1,-13.9
9415764,6058,2.4,-19.7
9472452,5887,1.8,-21.9
9529812,5805,5.1,-23.0
9587232,5690,1.4,-23.0
9644656,5564,1.9,-23.4
9703172,5427,2.2,-23.7
9759444,5327,2.8,-24.1
9816888,5201,4.4,-24.4
9875404,5007,4.3,-24.1
9931672,4896,4.9,-24.4
9989080,4896,4.9,-24.4
10046612,4954,4.7,-24.4
10104140,4941,4.4,-24.4
10161544,4954,4.3,-24.8
10219088,4993,4.2,-24.8
10276716,4993,4.2,-24.8
10333528,4954,3.8,-25.2

Steve93talon has verified the same thing along with several others. 3rd gear.

i've routinely heard that for dsm its approx 10.5hp per 1lb/min. Is this whp or crank hp?
Nice Hx40 log btw! Kind of curious why he stopped at 6400rpm?

I think crank HP. That number is a little conservative. I think it is based around a stockish setup. td05h turbine wheel, stock cams. Higher VE means less pumping loss and, thus, more power per unit airflow.

Yea, not bad for a bolton turbo at 26-27psi .

toofast82 said:

Nice Hx40 log btw! Kind of curious why he stopped at 6400rpm?

Click to expand...

I edited my post so didnt know if you caught it in time before your reply but was curious?

Thanks for the insight on the lb/min.

dsm-onster said:

I think crank HP. That number is a little conservative. I think it is based around a stockish setup. td05h turbine wheel, stock cams. Higher VE means less pumping loss and, thus, more power per unit airflow.

Yea, not bad for a bolton turbo at 26-27psi .

Click to expand...

10lbs/min = 10whp

I'll wager guys with engine bays like Curt Brown see over 11crank hp per lb/min. 10.5 is a good conservative number. Good cam grinds, intake/exhaust designs and turbine designs leaves more power for the crank and takes less to draw in and compress the aircharge. High compression and corresponding lower timing alone greatly changes how much energy the crank has to waste to push the piston to top dead center.

One trick of charged motors is the Miller cycle. The aircharge is already partially compressed in the turbo motor; and, with a close angle of 272s (even stock cams), we have a miller cycle motor. This iwill be that much less work the crank needs to do to compressor the charge, and takes away the work the motor needs to do at it's most inefficient part of the stroke: the beginning. As well, high boost air/fuel charge burns at a faster rate so less timing advance is needed to find MBT (or peak torque through ignition timing). Firing the charge later means less work the crank has to do to compress the exploding aircharge in the compressions stroke.

Now go out and make some fast holset DSMs .

Kind of curious why he stopped at 6400rpm?

Click to expand...

He hadn't even tuned his setup yet. Just slapped the turbo on and went logging. That's why. He was lifting because there was no need to go any higher.

Slippi84 said:

10lbs/min = 10whp

Click to expand...

Judging by looking at compressor maps and our cars, I would say that it is probably pretty close to matching whp numbers like you said

dsm-onster said:

There is no difference in flow between the bolton small bep housing and the t3 small bep housing. Considering the good mitsu-flanged manifold options now available as well as the o2 housing options, I don't see the point of going t3 with the small housing. If you want a proven 600whp exhaust manifold, fp makes a mitsu-flanged unit and you can get a good flowing tubular 02 housing or build one yourself.

. . . You're already setup with a good mitsu-flanged tubular manifold.

Click to expand...

Well, I actually sold my EVO3 manifold. It kinda married itself to the turbo, so its gone now. I wought a used DNP mitsu flanged, but Im pretty dissapointed with it, and will not be using it. I don't like how harshly the runners turn at the flange. It deffinatly dosen't flow evenly.

My boss that has been a expensive influance wants me to go t3 because of the better flowing housing. Were basing this simply on if the housing can make more power, it must flow more.

Im running the 7blade billett hx40. From what I have read here, the BEP mitsu housing at .55ar is 60lbs/min capable, and the t3 .70ar is 69lbs/min capable.

This being true, what would a t3 .55ar flow? And where would spool up be.

a t3 .55a/r flows the same as a mitsu bolton .55ar. I already said that . I already posted in this page the spool speed based on a log of a 3rd gear pull, too . The .55 a/r housing is the housing that has put down over 650whp with an hx40pro.

The .55 a/r bep turbine housing is the same shape no matter the inlet flange. If anything, the mitsu flange flows more because it is round . But the housings are the same shape so there can be no real difference in flow. It's not like the difference between the PTE bolton .63 a/r housing and the garrett .63 a/r housing. The bolton bep housing and the t3 .55 a/r housing are made by the same company, having the same a/r, same cast.

Now, the .70 a/r bep housing flows more definately. You cannot get the .70 a/r housign with a mitsu inlet. And I thought that bep stopped making the .55 a/r housing with the t3 inlet. . . There may be some out there. Or there may b a vendor that has bought enough for them to have produced a group.

Maybe there is some confusion. Some call the bep .70 a/r housing the 't3 housing' that is the only way bep will sell you a t3-flanged housing. But that changes every week. It seams that either bep has a few t3 flanged .55 a/r housing left. Or they have began production of those again, at least for vendors.

If you don't mind 20+ psi by 4400rpms, definately get the .70 a/r housing. It flows more and is worth it to me. You will have great overall ve and a better performing setup. 4500rpm spool speed on a 650+whp turbo that costs under 1K brand new, is very reliable, and is rebuildable is superb.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I guess im just getting myself overwelmed trying to soak all this in.

I guess im going t3 then. Even if all i get is more knock protection, ill sacrafice 3-400 RPM of spool.

BTW: DSM-onster, it scares me how much you know about these turbo's. Thanks for all the help!

toofast82 said:

"They" is Tim's Turbos which was who i bought my bolt on housing from almost 3years ago
Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet
They also have for t4 inlet

Click to expand...

Can anybody verify that there is a T4 inlet option for the bep hx40 housings? If so, is it .70 ar like the T3 inlet housings? All i see options for are Garrett turbines for them.

We have heard the pros and cons of a non-divided manifold with a divided turbo housing, but what would be the pros and cons of running a divided manifold with a non-divided turbo housing? Im getting tired of hunting for this mysterious t4 17cm hx40/wh1e holset housing. This might be an alternative.

I don't know whether BEP made T4, but it's now T3 or Mitsubishi housing and about the non-divided vs. the divided you'll probably with see little effects on small housing and the 60mm HX40 compressor.

GST95 said:

Can anybody verify that there is a T4 inlet option for the bep hx40 housings? If so, is it .70 ar like the T3 inlet housings? All i see options for are Garrett turbines for them.

We have heard the pros and cons of a non-divided manifold with a divided turbo housing, but what would be the pros and cons of running a divided manifold with a non-divided turbo housing? Im getting tired of hunting for this mysterious t4 17cm hx40/wh1e holset housing. This might be an alternative.

Click to expand...

There would be no difference between a divided manifold and a non divided housing vs. a divided housing and a non divided manifold (as long as the manifolds are built with other same characteristics). The point of dividing the runners and the housing is for pulse separation. The pulses still contaminate the cylinders during overlap if an open housnig is used.

Is there anyway look up what the a/r size is on a Holset by serial and customer? There are all these HX50, but don't give any specs.

Slippi84 said:

10lbs/min = 10whp

Click to expand...

414AWHP at less than 40lbs/min here.

jrohner said:

414AWHP at less than 40lbs/min here.

Click to expand...

What did you use to calculate flow let me guess...... dsmlink

EPROM ECU tuned (by me) with TunerProRT

Nope even worse. I didn't make up that equation and it is not exact but it is a pretty close idea of how much flow it takes to make 10whp

Though that whp is very high for the flow based on my personal experience, Unless he was mucking with the maf compensation code, then that is probably very accurate. He's running a 2g maf. If it is hacked, his airflow is around 44lb/min (reads aroud 12% lower).

That was on a dynojet. I prefer trapspeed and a known race weight.

Quick question for those with the BEP mitsu housing.

How bad did you have to dent the waterpipe? Or is a spacer reccomended?