I have always been a huge DSM advocate but after playing with these car and others for many years I have come to the conclusion that there is a big gap left for us considering a tuning solution. Here are some of the main stream options that we have:

-SAFC: Near usless and dangerous. I dont like having grab bag timing up top. Price is ok

-Tuner Pro/Hex editing- ok we are on to something here.. Oh wait! No datologging or trace cell so feel like I am poking in the dark. It can work with time but not good enough for a tune that I could ever live with.

-DSMlink: Alright here we go! Oh wait, $600 no speed density GM MAF... Ok I can work with those, how much for the cable again? another dissapointment On top of all of this you HAVE to find eprom ECU's which are almost becoming extinct (I have 2 under lock and key) Has good forum support.

-AEM- Ok it's the shit. I have one of these also. But, as mentioned a million times before it's pricey. AEM can be PITA to tune sometimes but it will always get the job done and has good forum support.

There is no middle ground tuning solutions for DSM's besides using a EVO ECU. Let's compare with Honduh:

All kinds of open source rom editors:

Crome (Free)
Free log (Setup to log OBD1 Honduhs)

Crome Pro $150 Comes with logging and trace cell. Very effective (the owner is MIA thought right now)

Neptune RPT $350 Very solid. No need for an Ostrich. Datalogging incorporated

Ectune $150 (On sale) Wow is all I can say about this one. This one rivals AEM. The software engineer stays on the eCtune forums and keeps adding shit to the program. It already has EBC, Boost per gear, and he is working on Varible boost/ 3D table. Good stuff.

So the moral of the story is that there is a chasm left in the choice to tune with. My next purchase is going to be the MegaSquirt. For under $300 I can get a system on par with AEM EMS for 2g DSM's. The best part is that it is opensource also. This is a really hands on approach but I like that stuff and would rather have something that fits all my needs for cheap than meeting only a few. Ok sorry for anyone that read all of this . Oh and this is just my opinion, I was just putting it out there.

/rant

DSMDirkah said:

On top of all of this you HAVE to find eprom ECU's which are almost becoming extinct (I have 2 under lock and key)

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Not anymore if you have a 1g, they can socket any 1g ecu now.

I read that over on DS-Map but what about datalogging and trace cell?

synthetek said:

Not anymore if you have a 1g, they can socket any 1g ecu now.

Click to expand...

Who does? Spendy?

Speed density will be released very soon with dsmlink.

SAFC is not dangerous if you know what you are doing. Timing up top is good if you run the right fuel. At a base timing of 2* and running an safc/maf-t with 1200cc injectors I see 22* max timing which is perfect (depending you have the right fuel). I run e85 and that timing on a 16g at 32psi (holding 24psi) with no knock so its not dangerous. But idle is not the best.

Also if you do eprom editing you can use a data logger for logging.

If you buy dsmlink new through them they will convert your ecu for $75. If you buy it seperate its $125.

IMO ECMlink is the way too go. Speed density is real close, they just wanted to release v3 without it so people didnt have to wait for it. Free upgrade once its released and they also sell a harness for $75 thats plug and play with the sensors and also works for a gm maf so you dont need a translator anymore.

Don't forget there's a lot of other ECU's out there in the stand alone category that aren't near as expensive as an AEM and are just as capable if not more. AEM is just overloaded with features that do the same thing to the ECU and IMO is just there to confuse the end user. The developer that use to work for AEM (jason Siebles) said his whole goal was to make it more complicated so the "end user" so they would have to take it to a shop for tuning.. HIs NEW ECU prefesional EFI is now made to where the end user CANNOT tune it at all, the shop has a special "box" that allows them to set it up on whatever car, but the end user must take it to said shop for changes (this is why i don't think it will ever take off)

Also, the AEM is just a refined version of the european system called GEMS, when first imported it was a straight GEMS unit being labeled as PEFIS (pro efi systems) which is the name of his new company again .. i remember when he was going to rau, glazier and everyone offering free installs and tuning to get his new ECU on the mnarket, then AEM caught on and offered him loot to get their hadnds on it and then gave him all the resources he wanted to develope it further.. his brother, my friend Kurt Siebles actually drove teh AEM race car hauler truck around for the years jason worked with AEM..was kinda cool to see

but as far as some other ECU's for teh DSM that will work on ANYTHING.

LINK (not dsmlink real LINK )

Autronic

Motronic

SDSEFI (simple digital systems)

Haltech (my favorite, but i'm a dealer of them )

Megasquirt (another personal favorite these days)

And my question is, if you've already got an AEM as you state, why would you not use it and be waiting to get a megasquirt for your car...sure MSNS is nice, but it's still not quite what other stand alones are as far as processor and capabilities of the onboard components.

I understand your rant, but that's just the boat we're in with DSM's..no one's made decoding the ECU easy enough f0r the massses like people have done with honda's this could be because of the complication of the programming or based on the demand of the market, i have no idea since i am no good at editing "code" i have tuned with chrome and hondata, u-tec and several other stock ecu editing programs , but personally i still prefer stand alone.. you can put it on anything so if you sell or wreck car A, put it on car B

You're missing a soon to be big solution too that everyone seems to be ignoring or showing no interest for.

The Evo 8 ECU swap I think is the best solution for a 2G. I think it is even better then DSMlink. You have full control over timing and fuel. A basic launch control is right there in stock form and NLTS is a simple code modification away. Speed Density is getting some good attention now and shouldn't be far off from being commonplace. And the best part is you have the full backing/support of the Evo community. Because it is opensource and Evo's still get a lot of attention, there is regularly new code to improve one thing or another. It couldn't be easier to use either. It's just like an Evo, just use different numbers.

My costs were:

Ecu $95 shipped
Tactrix cable $90

I built my own harness to switch a few wires, but most people wouldn't do this so figure another $100 - $150 for a patch harness that then needs modifications. Ya, they are way overpriced.

synthetek said:

Not anymore if you have a 1g, they can socket any 1g ecu now.

Click to expand...

Not to mention they [ECMlink] offer EPROM ECUs with a V3 package:

ECMTuning, Inc.

For the sake of full disclosure, I am definitely partial to DSMlink. With V3 direct access I can now control timing and fuel at pretty much any throttle position, load, boost level, or whatever other situations I'll encounter.

I think DSMChips are the middle ground for it. Sure you need an EPROM but for the price, it can't be beat with features it come with. I only suggest chips if you have a goal and want to keep with it for at least a year or forever.

I think there are many great tuning options and they vary on budget. From the SAFC($200) to the AEM EMS($1000k+) as well as many in the middle. For datalogging a 1g, you can get a palm from ebay for pretty much nothing and the cable is $30 if you cant make one yourself and MMCD is free so I dont know what the problem is there. Make a pass, log it and make adjusments. I personally use tunerpro with speed density coded in the ecu and love it. It was cheap and i have the capabilities to change every aspect of my ecu via hex editing and the info in the dsmecuyahoo forum.

Megasquirt has been used by a ton of different dsm's and will be my next choice of stand alone

Turboglenn:

I own several DSM's and work on many. One of my DSM's has AEM EMS

I really think that the best bang for buck is looking like MS. I know about the other systems but I really like what MS offers. After I put together one for myself, I think that I am going to start doing all the DSM cars around here with that just because I am not just looking for a tuning band aid, I want something thats going to be consistent and cheap. Also, have you looked over at there forums? The new stuff they are putting in is looking pretty good

I myself am quickly becin more and more of a fan to the MS option.. although i prefer to order pre-built (just for my sake of ahes and hours of bent over soldering) I just wish i could get them in the combination i liked instead of having to make do with one version simply because it has 2 ignition outputs from the get go.

BUt i'm sure with time there will be an option (at least on DIYautotune's site) that has what i want.. I relaly want one for our neon project because they have the only decoder tool for the neon trigger. But now that i have a spare E6k unit i will probably put rare earth magnets in the damper pulley and use it with a hall effect pickup