The $169 Kinetic 16G Turbo (yet another eBay Chinese turbo).

JusMX141 · Dec 12, 2008

eBay Motors: TD05/TDO5 16G TALON ECLIPSE LASER TURBOCHARGER TURBO (item 170286408533 end time Dec-13-08 11:18:41 PST)

That's right, a $169 NEW 16G. That thing must be some serious quality.

The part that confuses me is the listing displays what appears to be your run-of-the-mill knockoff Evo III 16G in the photos, but the listing claims the turbo to be a "Small 16G", using the SKU reference number KNM49178-01030N, which contains the part number for a MHI 14B. So what the hell are they selling?

If someone has $170 to throw away and dares to try one, I'd be curious to know how many minutes it lasts.

jjgrizz73 · Dec 12, 2008

id never waste any money on that, probably wont get anyone to try it either...you kno we are all cheap ba$tards

360glitch · Dec 12, 2008

Country of Origin = China = Fail

JusMX141 · Dec 12, 2008

The scariest thing about all this?

Kinetic is who builds the latest round of SBR "G" series journal-bearing turbos.

z24frank · Dec 19, 2008

jusmx141 said:
The scariest thing about all this?

Kinetic is who builds the latest round of SBR "G" series journal-bearing turbos.

So do you think this is going to be a quality product?I am looking for a 16g and have seen these on e bay but all I hear is that they are crap.Is there anyone ehre that has one and what do you they think about it?

fwdmaster · Dec 19, 2008

z24frank said:
So do you think this is going to be a quality product?I am looking for a 16g and have seen these on e bay but all I hear is that they are crap.Is there anyone ehre that has one and what do you they think about it?

I think it's still crap,same thing as all the other chinabay 16g's sold under a different name,but there are some people that like chinabay 16g's,here is a guy that had great success with it

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/266209-e-bay-evo-iii-big-16g-staying-strong.html

absolute_DSM · Dec 19, 2008

The only cheap 16g I would even think about from ebaymotors would be the one Punishment sold a few months ago.

JusMX141 · Dec 19, 2008

fwdmaster said:
I think it's still crap,same thing as all the other chinabay 16g's sold under a different name,but there are some people that like chinabay 16g's,here is a guy that had great success with it

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/266209-e-bay-evo-iii-big-16g-staying-strong.html

ONE guy out of 5,000.

I still live by my philosphy of "If you were to buy a box of condoms and 11 out of the 12 break, what does that say for the one that didn't break?"

There is no doubt these Chinese turbos have issues, most of which are due to the parts that are used. The center housings seem to be well-designed and get plenty of oil.

Here's the main reasons the Chinese 16G's fail:

- Balance. I honestly don't think these turbos come properly balanced when they are built, which is why one out of twenty actually survives (luck). If a turbo dies because it isn't balanced properly, it will die a quick and painful death. Cost of a rebalance: $40-$65.
- Inferior seals and journal bearings. The Chinese have to cut corners and use materials that aren't up to par. The spring steel they use for the turbine seals get weak, and the turbos use oil. The metal that is used for journal bearings is too soft and wears quickly, causing shaft play. Cost of upgrading the weak internals: $50-$75.
- Poorly designed wastegate system. Sure they use a 34mm flapper....but it's covering a 22mm hole. Wonder how much creep THAT would cause? Cost of porting wastegate hole: Free to $35.

On top of all that you have a turbo that comes with a heavy compressor wheel (due to cheap materials), hindering it's ability to spool as quickly as a MHI Evo III would. There's no fix for that.

Now, take that $229 eBay turbo and add $65 (max) to rebalance it, $75 (max) to replace the sh!tty internals, and $35 (max) for some corrective porting....and for just over $400 you'll have a reliable, slow-spooling eBay 16G. Doesn't sound like a bargain anymore, does it?

BoostedinSoFla · Dec 19, 2008

What a useless thread and waste of bandwidth. Everyone knows these turbos are shit and if anybody should know it would be you so what's your point in making this thread? Is it because you've never seen them this cheap? I think we've gotten the point that you bash these turbos all day but yet you rebuild them with "authentic" internals and sell them on Ebay yourself.

fwdmaster · Dec 19, 2008

jusmx141 said:
ONE guy out of 5,000.

I still live by my philosphy of "If you were to buy a box of condoms and 11 out of the 12 break, what does that say for the one that didn't break?"

There is no doubt these Chinese turbos have issues, most of which are due to the parts that are used. The center housings seem to be well-designed and get plenty of oil.

Here's the main reasons the Chinese 16G's fail:

- Balance. I honestly don't think these turbos come properly balanced when they are built, which is why one out of twenty actually survives (luck). If a turbo dies because it isn't balanced properly, it will die a quick and painful death. Cost of a rebalance: $40-$65.
- Inferior seals and journal bearings. The Chinese have to cut corners and use materials that aren't up to par. The spring steel they use for the turbine seals get weak, and the turbos use oil. The metal that is used for journal bearings is too soft and wears quickly, causing shaft play. Cost of upgrading the weak internals: $50-$75.
- Poorly designed wastegate system. Sure they use a 34mm flapper....but it's covering a 22mm hole. Wonder how much creep THAT would cause? Cost of porting wastegate hole: Free to $35.

On top of all that you have a turbo that comes with a heavy compressor wheel (due to cheap materials), hindering it's ability to spool as quickly as a MHI Evo III would. There's no fix for that.

Now, take that $229 eBay turbo and add $65 (max) to rebalance it, $75 (max) to replace the sh!tty internals, and $35 (max) for some corrective porting....and for just over $400 you'll have a reliable, slow-spooling eBay 16G. Doesn't sound like a bargain anymore, does it?

I agree with your philosophy,thats what I wanted to say about the chinabay 16g

JusMX141 · Dec 19, 2008

BoostedinSoFla said:
What a useless thread and waste of bandwidth. Everyone knows these turbos are shit and if anybody should know it would be you so what's your point in making this thread? Is it because you've never seen them this cheap? I think we've gotten the point that you bash these turbos all day but yet you rebuild them with "authentic" internals and sell them on Ebay yourself.

The thread was started because I have yet to see one as cheap as $169. I just wondered how bad the quality must have gotten for the price to become so cheap all of a sudden. I also wondered if the same "quality" would eventually work it's way into the SBR turbos, if it hasn't already.

If the moderators felt the thread should be deleted, it would be gone by now. If you were a moderator, you could take matters into your own hands instead of responding with more useless jargon, putting a target on me and my services. I believe this is called trolling.

I've successfully rebuilt seven (I believe, possibly more) knockoff 16G's with Garrett journal bearings and seals, and as far as I know they're all still boosting. One customer claimed his failed prematurely, but I never received that turbo back so I never found out whether it was something I did or something caused by improper installation or something entering the turbo through the oil supply (perhaps from a blown engine). The fact that I didn't recieve this turbo back for warranty service makes me skeptical that the owner felt the failure was caused by something on his end.

The most I ever sold one of my knockoff rebuilds for was around $120 after the shipping and paypal fees....not much considering the money I have wrapped up in parts getting them repaired. It's not like I listed them for $350 and intentionally ripped someone off- hell I barely made enough to cover parts, which is the reason I can't understand why you're so hateful toward me performing these services at next to no profit to me. If nothing else I've at least taken the time to learn what makes these turbos fail, and how to repair them.

The highest mileage one of my rebuilt knockoff 16G's has on it is 16k, and it's still going strong. That is something I'm proud of, personally....being able to offer someone a reliable turbo at a discount price.

MrBoxx · Dec 19, 2008

Let's keep this a civil technical discussion without turning it into personal attacks against each other.

Agreed, this is the lowest price I've ever seen for a turbo, knock-off or not. It makes me wonder what's happened to the manufacturer or the wholesaler to be able to sell them for this low.

BoostedinSoFla · Dec 20, 2008

jusmx141 said:
The thread was started because I have yet to see one as cheap as $169. I just wondered how bad the quality must have gotten for the price to become so cheap all of a sudden. I also wondered if the same "quality" would eventually work it's way into the SBR turbos, if it hasn't already.

If the moderators felt the thread should be deleted, it would be gone by now. If you were a moderator, you could take matters into your own hands instead of responding with more useless jargon, putting a target on me and my services. I believe this is called trolling.

I've successfully rebuilt seven (I believe, possibly more) knockoff 16G's with Garrett journal bearings and seals, and as far as I know they're all still boosting. One customer claimed his failed prematurely, but I never received that turbo back so I never found out whether it was something I did or something caused by improper installation or something entering the turbo through the oil supply (perhaps from a blown engine). The fact that I didn't recieve this turbo back for warranty service makes me skeptical that the owner felt the failure was caused by something on his end.

The most I ever sold one of my knockoff rebuilds for was around $120 after the shipping and paypal fees....not much considering the money I have wrapped up in parts getting them repaired. It's not like I listed them for $350 and intentionally ripped someone off- hell I barely made enough to cover parts, which is the reason I can't understand why you're so hateful toward me performing these services at next to no profit to me. If nothing else I've at least taken the time to learn what makes these turbos fail, and how to repair them.

The highest mileage one of my rebuilt knockoff 16G's has on it is 16k, and it's still going strong. That is something I'm proud of, personally....being able to offer someone a reliable turbo at a discount price.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not hateful towards your services at all. My initial post was loaded with questions actually. I just didn't really see the point in the thread hence I asked you "is it because you've never seen them this cheap".

viprez586 · Dec 20, 2008

jusmx141 said:
ONE guy out of 5,000.

I still live by my philosphy of "If you were to buy a box of condoms and 11 out of the 12 break, what does that say for the one that didn't break?"

There is no doubt these Chinese turbos have issues, most of which are due to the parts that are used. The center housings seem to be well-designed and get plenty of oil.

Here's the main reasons the Chinese 16G's fail:

- Balance. I honestly don't think these turbos come properly balanced when they are built, which is why one out of twenty actually survives (luck). If a turbo dies because it isn't balanced properly, it will die a quick and painful death. Cost of a rebalance: $40-$65.
- Inferior seals and journal bearings. The Chinese have to cut corners and use materials that aren't up to par. The spring steel they use for the turbine seals get weak, and the turbos use oil. The metal that is used for journal bearings is too soft and wears quickly, causing shaft play. Cost of upgrading the weak internals: $50-$75.
- Poorly designed wastegate system. Sure they use a 34mm flapper....but it's covering a 22mm hole. Wonder how much creep THAT would cause? Cost of porting wastegate hole: Free to $35.

On top of all that you have a turbo that comes with a heavy compressor wheel (due to cheap materials), hindering it's ability to spool as quickly as a MHI Evo III would. There's no fix for that.

Now, take that $229 eBay turbo and add $65 (max) to rebalance it, $75 (max) to replace the sh!tty internals, and $35 (max) for some corrective porting....and for just over $400 you'll have a reliable, slow-spooling eBay 16G. Doesn't sound like a bargain anymore, does it?

You bring up a very good point here mx. Just go MHI once, not have to worry about your turbo being okay and looking over your shoulder, you don't have to wait on all the down time of "upgrading" your turbo. Lastly, you don't have to buy it twice or three times before you succeed.

I bet they figure they'll make a killing selling super cheap turbos to those 16-year-old new kids on the block wanting to turbo their car (on a stock fuel system at that) and hear the BOV every 5 seconds in the school parking lot.

prostreetdsmx1 · Dec 20, 2008

folks, keep in mind how quickly things get out of hand on a board with just simple insinuation. I highly doubt that slowboy would knowingly sell their turbo line with this type of material/quality. Obviously, I have no horse in this race and think it's great that there is discussion but I'd hate if something my shop sold was associated with something with a reputation like these turbos just based of speculation.

All it takes is one person reading this thread, seeing SBR mentioned once and next thing you know, 10,000 people swear that SBR turbos are made in a the back of a Chinese chop stick factory.

1stGenTSi · Dec 20, 2008

On a side note my TC.com EVO 3 GT has been holding up perfectly for over 2 years now at ~22psi.

JusMX141 · Dec 20, 2008

absolute_DSM said:
The only cheap 16g I would even think about from ebaymotors would be the one Punishment sold a few months ago.

Speaking of which....where did all the Punishment "Budget" 16G's go? Perhaps they were no more reliable than any other ChinaBay 16G and Punishment got tired of handing out freebies.

prostreetdsmx1 said:
folks, keep in mind how quickly things get out of hand on a board with just simple insinuation.....All it takes is one person reading this thread, seeing SBR mentioned once and next thing you know, 10,000 people swear that SBR turbos are made in a the back of a Chinese chop stick factory.

True, but doesn't it make you wonder why the SBR G turbos were once actual Garrett turbos, then Turbonetics-built, and now Kinetic-built? Of the three, Kinetic is the only one selling obvious Chinese turbos on eBay, so if I was the proud owner of one of their products I'd surely be questioning if I got what I paid for.

1stGenTSi said:
On a side note my TC.com EVO 3 GT has been holding up perfectly for over 2 years now at ~22psi.

Supposedly, the newest-generation of the GT Concepts Evo III's are all good turbos. However, I do have three of the early GT Concepts 16G's at my shop that have missing turbine wheels....they broke completely off. I use them for parts....the center housings and turbine housings all interchange with MHI parts.

I'd hate to have paid almost the price of an MHI turbo to get one of those and have the turbine wheel break off unexpectedly just out of warranty.

z24frank · Dec 21, 2008

Good call on the punishment ones what happened to those?Maybe thats a better option at a fair price?

costas14 · Jan 15, 2009

I got that same exact one sitting in my basement untouched. I got it off someone when i got my gsx in september, and just now my t25 has blown. So i will be installing the 16g and seeing how it goes. I really hope it lasts until i get a new turbo, but a lot of my cousins friends at there technical school use the fake 16g's on there hondas and they seem to be running okay.

Slowboy · Jan 17, 2009

prostreetdsmx1 said:
folks, keep in mind how quickly things get out of hand on a board with just simple insinuation. I highly doubt that slowboy would knowingly sell their turbo line with this type of material/quality. Obviously, I have no horse in this race and think it's great that there is discussion but I'd hate if something my shop sold was associated with something with a reputation like these turbos just based of speculation.

All it takes is one person reading this thread, seeing SBR mentioned once and next thing you know, 10,000 people swear that SBR turbos are made in a the back of a Chinese chop stick factory.

If anyone here knew how much money I spent defending the real MHI EVO III 16G turbo on everyone's behalf... I think everyone would understand my feelings on Chinese made turbos.

I am sure Kinetic has some junk on the shelf they are trying to get rid of - hence the Ebay store.

Mike Huml
Slowboy -

pboglio · Jan 17, 2009

These flipping chinese knockoffs annoy the crap out of me. Anybody who buys one has got to be among the cheapest DSM owners in the world. I'm just waiting for the knockoff 4g63 engine block and cylinder head next and I can finally build my complete knockoff motor

JusMX141 · Jan 17, 2009

Slowboy said:
If anyone here knew how much money I spent defending the real MHI EVO III 16G turbo on everyone's behalf... I think everyone would understand my feelings on Chinese made turbos.

I am sure Kinetic has some junk on the shelf they are trying to get rid of - hence the Ebay store.

I'm curious, why did you spend money defending one of the most reliable turbos made?

Aside from lowering your manufacturing costs, what's the reason for switching from Garrett and Turbonetics to Kinetic as the manufacturer of the journal-bearing G turbos, especially since so many folks have had issues with Kinetic's reliability?

I'm sure you've researched this- just where do the internals for Kinetic's turbos come from? The last Kinetic-built SBR G60 I rebuilt for a customer had a compressor wheel that was not unlike a chinese 16G....brittle cheap-ass pot metal. I ended up replacing it with a Garrett 60-trim wheel.

bwhite · Jan 18, 2009

Slowboy turbo=all parts that are within specs.
Ebay turbo=all parts that are just outside the spec range.
So basically all the garbage parts they made turbos with and sell on ebay. Just my opinion I bet thats why there so may failures.

Slowboy · Jan 19, 2009

jusmx141 said:
I'm curious, why did you spend money defending one of the most reliable turbos made?

Aside from lowering your manufacturing costs, what's the reason for switching from Garrett and Turbonetics to Kinetic as the manufacturer of the journal-bearing G turbos, especially since so many folks have had issues with Kinetic's reliability?

I'm sure you've researched this- just where do the internals for Kinetic's turbos come from? The last Kinetic-built SBR G60 I rebuilt for a customer had a compressor wheel that was not unlike a chinese 16G....brittle cheap-ass pot metal. I ended up replacing it with a Garrett 60-trim wheel.

If you do not know what I was defending - or the reasons why - there is certainly no good reason to bring back the discussion. I am sure if you search hard enough on the forums you will find something.

Where do Turbonetics parts come from (The answer is probably the same place Kinetic's come from).

HEHE - same with some Garrett parts?

Kinetic has made my turbos since before they were called Kinetic - about seven years now. So - we have used Garrett, Turbonetics, and other parts - all from Kinetic/ ADP. We try to bring the best value we can to the DSM'r. DSM's are known for being quite hard on turbochargers - ask PTE, and Kinetic.

Be careful of the words you choose to describe our parts - it can cost you a lot of money LOL

- "choose your words wisely she says - I said - eh... next time".

As always - if you have real questions you can always call or email me to discuss. [email protected] in case you did not have it - or heck - drive up to the shop.

Mike Huml
Slowboy -

Slowboy · Jan 19, 2009

pboglio said:
These flipping chinese knockoffs annoy the crap out of me. Anybody who buys one has got to be among the cheapest DSM owners in the world. I'm just waiting for the knockoff 4g63 engine block and cylinder head next and I can finally build my complete knockoff motor

AHH - there you go ruining my idea.

Mike Huml
Slowboy -

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The $169 Kinetic 16G Turbo (yet another eBay Chinese turbo).

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