I went to the dyno today...

I was hopeing for 400 hp on 20 psi.... came close, I just need to get this thing tuned....

wow grats man. looks like you are running especially rich ~3500 - ~4500. Is that done purposefully for when the turbo spools?

Also, are you doing all the work yourself? kudos if you are.

Nice numbers man! I see you also have the stroker that's a good thing. Sorry if I missed this but did you run 20psi or was that what you were going for??

This run was on 20psi and 94 pump gas.....
all this work was done buy me...

damn man thats pretty cool good luck hitting your mark

Here is a better copy of my afr chart...

Those number are great! I hope one day to have my 420a pushing that kinda of HP!

Street 2G said:

congrats on the numbers, what size injectors were you running other then the stockers? i ask because i saw you had the portfueler.

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450's

nice numbers!!! Like other have said I wish i could make that much power. I'm guessing the 10.00afr is what your looking to tune better? If i'm not mistaken it shoul be closer to 12 right?

ortorc said:

nice numbers!!! Like other have said I wish i could make that much power. I'm guessing the 10.00afr is what your looking to tune better? If i'm not mistaken it shoul be closer to 12 right?

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The 10.00 afr is gone. I got it tuned now to 11.5 range, across the board...The car feels much better... I would like to see what, it will put down on c-16 and 26psi.....

nice job on those dyno numbers. what did you use for timing control?

xxthayxx said:

nice job on those dyno numbers. what did you use for timing control?

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Stock timing,

Yeah I would monitor knock somehow not sure how this is done with the 420a's yet cause I haven't got to the tuning part with these cars yet but in th4 turbo dsm world 12:1 afr is race gas levels. usualy on pump gas like you said you want to be at 11:5 range. That may be why it feels better it's not pulling timing.

I wish i knew how you are not knocking like a mother without pulling timing. On my car with 15 psi and 93octane, i was getting metal specks on my plugs as well as hearing knock through "det-cans". That was with a 11.5 afr as well. I had to go down to 12psi before knock was gone. That is why I said to hell with pump gas and learned to love race fuel.

I really don't no.....I'am seeing 20 degrees of timing @ 20psi...
Hell it could be knocking. I'am going to make me a set of det-cans. To see if i can hear some knock. I'am not hearing any knock from inside the car....

don't be surprised if you don't, there are a lot of guys on 2gnt.com a year or so that were running, 20psi plus and only pulling out 2-4degrees of timing at the most extreme levels on pump gas.

Do you have an EGT gauge....if so when, your out on the road at full throttle, at max boost, check what the numbers look like, anything over 1650*F (1450*F if your tapped after the turbo) and you'll know something is getting too hot, and prolonged exposure somethings going to melt.

DONT listen to them i ran 20 psi on 94 on the stock ignition and melted my pistons, i never heard knocking. I figured it would be safer since the knock sensor is attached. guess not




Also about the egt guage, i could never look at it when i was pulling 20 psi ahah i was too busy shitting my pants. Im gonna hook it up to msns when i rebuild the new engine so i can log it.

I actually believe this is part of the reason that 420a guys don't go faster because if you can watch out for knock egt's and a/f ratio's effectively than you really can't tune a car 100% or close enough to make the power these cars are capable of.

Slippi84 said:

I actually believe this is part of the reason that 420a guys don't go faster because if you can watch out for knock egt's and a/f ratio's effectively than you really can't tune a car 100% or close enough to make the power these cars are capable of.

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And the answer is..........................MSnS. Ta da

MB

bullettdsm said:

And the answer is..........................MSnS. Ta da

MB

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MSnS....PNP


Edit: by the way if symtech or whoever delays the release we're road trippin up there and stealing a prototype I got a build going and I need that shit yesterday. complete tuning with rasies rev limit and no room for portfueler spacer = MSnS

My egt's are around 1,550 degrees at wot....

Funny thing is if I were to have ever tuned my car to 1600* F like some places recomend, my motor would be toast. I've never gotten my EGT gauge to 1600, (1525 or so tops) and i was already running lean and detonating at that point. Every car is different, but use a WB o2 before an EGT as your primary tuning tool. The reason EGT kinda worked on stock ECU's when tuning was because when the motor pulled timing from detonation the temps would go up, so tuning on the edge of higher EGT's (1600) was basically a crude way of tuning to the knock threshold as well as some sort of balance in AFR compared to the knock, but all this without monitoring the actuall values. I hope that makes some sense to you, i have trouble explaining some things, but savfe for the wideband or borrow one. WIth todays prices there's at least a few guys in every crowd that has one. I remember 8 years ago i had the holy grail of electronics because i was teh only palce besides the dyno shop that had my own wideband..they were 800bucks and up for a decent one back then too!

As for knock check out J&S Electronics SafeGuard Indivdual Cylinder Knock Control

^^^ That's what i run and it totally rocks, i waited years for my own and it was cool to actually see how good my tune was after 8+ years of tuning with out a knock snesor. I was only running 2-3 degree towards teh "edge" on pump gas at 19 psi..not bad IMO

Sorry about bringing up a old thread, but just wanted to add some info for future reference.
Thank Locke for this info he enlightened me..
So the reason your not going to really hear knock is because the 420a's have a built in knock sensor that starts to pull timing when knock is detected. Dectected means sensed, and that means knock has to occur in order for the sensor to realize it, then it pulls timing. So knock will occur for a millisecond and the sensor will pull timing, but once your boost level changes knock is going to occur agian and then the sensor will pull timing.
This is one of the big reasons why as soon as 420a's introduce boost we dont have to pull timing. But the problem is that once you start turning up the boost that you may not know it but you have knock and time will show, just like ivan300 stated. And now 1slow97 can state the facts too.
With a 12:1 fmu setup you can run around 6psi with no knock and a sfmu and bigger injectors probably 10psi. Not totally sure, so dont get mad at me if you use a sfmu and get knock at 10psi. Get some det cans to be sure.
I hope this helped some people, I know it helped me. (It made me decide to get Msns)
And agian sorry about bringing up an old thread. When I tried to find info on timing with the 420a it was slim to none.
Agian, Locke is the once who helped me comprehend this whole thing, so thank him for this info.

Slippi84 said:

MSnS....PNP

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Did the P&P ever come out? I wanted that real bad just like you Slippi when we first heard about it. I remember getting super excited about their turbo manifolds too like well over a year ago, however long ago that was. Did either of those products ever get released?

I've got money now and a second vehicle so I can finally go back to building the talon.

chris712vt said:

Did the P&P ever come out? I wanted that real bad just like you Slippi when we first heard about it. I remember getting super excited about their turbo manifolds too like well over a year ago, however long ago that was. Did either of those products ever get released?

I've got money now and a second vehicle so I can finally go back to building the talon.

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As far as I can tell the 420a PnP isnt out yet. http://symtechlabs.com/news/PnP_Megasquirt.pdf