Got a problem with installing my eibach/agx set up for the rear only. Today I pulled my GR-2 and stock spring set up and switched all the hardware (stops, boot, etc) over to the agx strut which was utilizing the new eibach spring. When it all went together the agx piston extended out and pushed the bottom of the mounting plate away from the top of the spring by 3" if not more.

This made me question the strut so I placed it besides the GR-2 and the rod is about 1.5" longer than the GR-2 strut. Next I tried assembling the agx with the stock spring, this resulted in about 1.5" of free play...hence compression spring not being in compression

Next attempt was to try installing the eibach on to the GR-2 strut, resulting in .25" free play. So I'm sort of at a loss here.

1. There's a possibility that the Tirerack sent me the wrong rear struts.
2. Possible that the rear Eibach springs are out of specification (wounds look extremely close).
3. The hardware that was on the GR-2 is not the correct hardware, thus throwing off the Eibach/agx installation.
4. Confused as hell because the front went together flawlessly. I've done a lot of struts in the past and have never run into a situation like this.

Does anyone have part numbers for the rear agx struts that should be used on a 95 GST? I'd like to compare this with the struts I got from the TR. It would also help if someone could post a picture of the OEM hardware so I can make sure I've got the right stuff.

Thanks in adv.

Did you actually put the car on the ground after installing them? There will be space when not on the car or no weight is on the suspension(car being jacked up in the air with the tire off the ground).

Absolutely not. With the Eibach/AGX combo we're talking about a 3" + gap between the mounting plate and spring. I've never seen a gap at all between a spring and mounting plate after tightening everything back down, therefore I wasn't about to install it on my car.

This first pic shows the eibach installed on the GR-2 and has the nut fully fastened on the strut piston.


This second pic shows the differnce in length between the GR-2 & AGX. Now imagine the resulting gap shown on pic 1 + the extra length of the AGX piston. This is where the 3" gap is coming from.


Finally the differnce between the rear stock vs. eibach.

Thats what my setup was like. I having never installed lowering springs before thought that was correct. My car dropped like 2" and the only thing I can come up with, is that I bought a set of "knockoff" springs on ebay. I have tons of friends with the same setup and theirs are all way higher than mine. Sorry I can't really tell you more. I installed my setup about 4 years ago.

Looks fine to me. Looks like every other lowering spring combo I have installed on cars(not just dsm's).

So what happens when you're cruising at highway speeds (or faster) and you hit a bump that makes your suspension goes to full extend?

kiddsm95 said:

So what happens when you're cruising at highway speeds (or faster) and you hit a bump that makes your suspension goes to full extend?

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Essentially nothing. The worst that can happen is the spring rotates but the perches are designed/molded so that doesn't happen. Bottom line is that what your are seeing is normal...no worries. Thousands of cars have this setup...including one my old DSMs.

I can install and remove my H&R springs with hand tools no spring compressor needed. Same with the Eibachs I had. In the winter time when I put my stock GSX springs back on, I have to use a spring compressor. There's just no way to do it without. The stock springs are way longer. The Eibachs are a progressive rate spring hence the tighter winding. They are supposed to be fairly soft and then be stiffer when loaded heavier while cornering etc. The longer shaft length would change things by the length that is longer. <-- looks funny to read but hopefully you will get the point. But I can not remember ever having any freeplay. They fit loosely into the spring perch when there's no weight on them but aren't able to move around. I had the Eibachs on the stocks struts which resulted in a horrible ride. I upgraded to the Toikiko Illumina adjustables with the Eibachs and it was better but over time my 1.5 inch drop became a 2.5 inch drop. I was getting tire tuck front and rear. Too low for around here and camber issues to boot. The H&R springs on the Toikikos was a lot better. I wonder if you did get a GST spring set? To be frank, I think you were right to not put them on the car that way, I wouldn't put them on the car that way. I don't like to gamble when it comes to brake or suspension systems. It's dangerous and could kill you. I would look into it a little furthur. My H&R springs never settled. A few years later and they are still the way they were when I bought them. They are not a deep lowering spring. They are progressive rate. I doubt if they drop my Talon TSI AWD an inch in the rear. They lower it more in the front. What Dave said is very true, all they will do is possibly rotate and bounce around. If the strut is securely installed top and bottom unless something breaks, they have no where to go.
But me for one I can't stand hearing any kind of creaking, clunking, groaning, rattling in any part of my cars suspension. It drives me nuts and takes my concentration off my driving where it should be.

Essentially wrong, for some reason I can't buy into this. I think that the worst that could happen is that the spring would not only rotate, but it could potentially pitch thus resulting in two point loads acting on the spring. The point loads would be acting on the spring in a diagonal manner (due to pitch) and could permenantly deform the spring since compression springs are designed to work with distributed loads (evenly distributed on top & bottom coil diameters surface areas) instead of point loads.

I'm just having a hard time believing that this is the way this assembly should work. If I designed something like this for my industry (aerospace) my boss would fire me on the spot.

I'm going to dig into this a little bit more to see what I can find out.

Thanks again to everyone for helping out.

Dave532 said:

Essentially nothing. The worst that can happen is the spring rotates but the perches are designed/molded so that doesn't happen. Bottom line is that what your are seeing is normal...no worries. Thousands of cars have this setup...including one my old DSMs.

Click to expand...

You also have to think that the struts won't be able to extend all the way since the lower control arm will limit how much it can. Also the lower control arm will help control how far the strut rod comes out because of the control arm acting as a damper kind of. Try to push your lower control arm down with nothing connected to it just where it mounts and you will se what I am talking about.

Yeah, I was thinking about the amount of vertical play in the control arms while sitting in a free state. I'm going to try and install the eibach/agx config tomorrow to see what amount of free play exists while the car is on jacks. If this free play amount is not too excessive then I may deem this acceptable.

kiddsm95 said:

Essentially wrong, for some reason I can't buy into this. I think that the worst that could happen is that the spring would not only rotate, but it could potentially pitch thus resulting in two point loads acting on the spring. The point loads would be acting on the spring in a diagonal manner (due to pitch) and could permenantly deform the spring since compression springs are designed to work with distributed loads (evenly distributed on top & bottom coil diameters surface areas) instead of point loads.

I'm just having a hard time believing that this is the way this assembly should work. If I designed something like this for my industry (aerospace) my boss would fire me on the spot.

I'm going to dig into this a little bit more to see what I can find out.

Thanks again to everyone for helping out.

Click to expand...

You don't have to buy into anything. You asked for an opinion...you were given multiple opinions combining years of experience with your exact scenario.
Saying that all that experience is 'essentially wrong' is where you will have a problem with me and other 'been there, done that' members of this board.
As stated before there are literally thousands of cars on the road with the Eibach/AGX setup...and the springs do not rest diagonal in the perches.

My rally car (with DMS) has easily twice the droop you have. While the car is in the air the spring is free to travel at least 8 total inches...and it always lands where it should every time.

The last time I checked you had to prove your theory before it was fact...even in the aerospace industry.

Dave532 said:

You don't have to buy into anything. You asked for an opinion...you were given multiple opinions combining years of experience with your exact scenario.
Saying that all that experience is 'essentially wrong' is where you will have a problem with me and other 'been there, done that' members of this board.
As stated before there are literally thousands of cars on the road with the Eibach/AGX setup...and the springs do not rest diagonal in the perches.

My rally car (with DMS) has easily twice the droop you have. While the car is in the air the spring is free to travel at least 8 total inches...and it always lands where it should every time.

The last time I checked you had to prove your theory before it was fact...even in the aerospace industry.

Click to expand...

Hence my willingness to actually install these springs/struts on my car tomorrow to figure this whole thing out.

Correct I asked for everyone's opinion/experiences and people provided just that, which I thanked everyone for on post #9 of this thread.

Forgive me for my skeptisism, but I haven't run into this scenario with every spring/strut install I've worked on over the past 10 years. Perhaps this is because the springs I was installing were conservative drops <1.0" compared to the average drops on DSM's 1.3"-1.5"? Interesting your rally car has 8" of free play and lands perfectly each time, I would have figured the probability to be less than perfect but that's just in theory. Again no pun intended, and I thank everyone again for thier input.

I'll report about the install tomorrow.

Thanks.

Installed the assy onto my car today. Nobody mentioned that when the assy is placed on the car that the 3" gap reduces down to less than a 1/2" gap. The car handles great.

Thanks for all the help.

kiddsm95 said:

Nobody mentioned that when the assy is placed on the car that the 3" gap reduces down to less than a 1/2" gap.

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Thats what I was saying about the lower control arm limiting movement.

Do you have any pics? Also what eibachs did you use?

there shouldn't be any gap

bmoha2 said:

there shouldn't be any gap

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Lowering springs= shorter spring or weaker spring.

Most springs are shorter and stronger. Since the spring is shorter obviously they won't be as tight as stock springs. Did you even read the thread? I will repeat, I have done plenty of lowering spring installs and EVERY one had a gap between the top of the spring and the bottom of the upper mount when no weight is added. THIS IS NOT ABNORMAL FOR LOWERING SPRINGS.

You said when the assembly is placed one the car the gap goes from 3 inches to 1/2 inch. You did not specify whether or not the car's weight was on it. Is there any gap when the car's weight is loaded on it? If no then proceed to drive it. If yes then you have a problem.

Obviously it is 1/2" with no weight. If it was 1/2" with weight the strut would have to be bottomed out without the car being lower than stock. That is highly unlikely, as with weight on the car the strut rod will go into the strut which in turn will take away the gap.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm agreeing with you.