Hey guys, I was wondering how important this would be? I didn't buy a $60 autometer A/F gauge because honestly, it does about nothing. Light show actually. SO, I figured I would save up the cash for an AEM EUGO. Unfortunately, I cannot afford it now due to install problems.

So, if I have no air/feul, would I be OK with my set-up? I'vwe got the 12:1 FMU with 255lph pump. The turbo is a 20G intercooled..

I figured of anything I'd be runing on the rich side, but with all these posts of low feul pressure or high feul pressure, I'm getting a little nervous about starving my $5K block of feul.

Any advice would be great. TIA

1st of all it's spelled "fuel"

I have an Autometer Air/Fuel gauge for my car. It works on Full-throttle, but it won't be very accurate because the scale those things work on aren't that great. If you are going to get serious about turning, a Wideband will then be a must. I've seen cars that have been tuned using the narrow-band gauge and a logger also, but not to a great extent.

I would say if the wideband is farther down the road, a narrowband won't break the bank too much and it's kind of nice to have.

Yeah thats what I was thinking. My car is down right now due to downpipe fitment issues and lack of time. But I'm trying to locate a A/F gauge before monday (should be up and runing by then)...THe oil pressure and boost gauges are sittin pretty and ready to go, but he extra 1/3 pods looks lonely.. wish me luck on the search!

P.S- If anyone knows where I can have an A/F gauge by tuesday please let me know.

Pff... I wouldn't waste my money on any such thing; no matter how dazzling the show is.

And for the record, I've been running 8psi for a few thousand miles now with no A/F gauge. Everything has been running great... I don't even think an A/F guage would do you any good at all, because, as you stand now, you don't really have any way to your AFR. If you were running Megasquirt, or an S-FMU, then that'd be a different story; but there's nothing you can really do with an FMU.

If you really want something that you might be able to use, think about making one of those three-digit numeric gauges that Corbin use to sell. They're not exactly as accurate as a wideband, but at least they have quite a bit more resolution over a $60 Autometer POS.

If you suck at electonics, shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do for you.

...dont waste your money on that gauge What the heck is monitoring your a/f with a useless narrowband gonna do anyways...you're running simple bolt on fuel system aka 12:1 fmu with stock injectors


EDIT: you suck paul...I should have hit submit before I went to take a piss .

As for the OP, take our advise wisely

Yeah I haven't brought myself to buy one yet. I probably won't either. Never planned on it so after hearing that it's definately not going to happen. I'll just wait the extra month to buy my EUGO and be set. Thanks again guys.

not sure if you already had this but if not you might want to get an electronic fuel pressure guage to help monitor your fuel pressure and make sure you getting the right amount of fuel for your boost level.

people people, if your looking for the most important three gauges.


1. Boost

2. Wideband 02 sensor (if you can afford one, they start at $250)

3. Oil pressure.

simple as that.

Other gauges that come in handy.

4. EGT

5. Water temp

6. Volt Meter

i agree with bigrand the a/f is really kind of a light show and thats all, there was one in my car when i got it no very worthwhile, the AEM wideband is really the way to go. in my car i have boost,oil pressure,oil temp,a/f,and EGT and thats what some call over kill.

I feel like a narrowband is better than no gauge at all. Having changed nothing on my car since turbo'ing, in 3rd and 4th gear at WOT near 4000 rpm the car begins running extrememly lean. I wouldn't know this and would be in serious trouble by now without that gauge.

DSMcrazy3 said:

I feel like a narrowband is better than no gauge at all. Having changed nothing on my car since turbo'ing, in 3rd and 4th gear at WOT near 4000 rpm the car begins running extrememly lean. I wouldn't know this and would be in serious trouble by now without that gauge.

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Odd, usually the stock ecu is very good at pulling out a lot of timing, in those situations. How much boost are you running?

It's not the stock ECU, it's from a neon and I didn't notice it happening before I got that ECU. It's a temporary fix and i'll be getting OEM soon. That's neither here nor there though. I was just stating that the gauge as opposed to what people say, does help.

1.5 year BUUUUUMP! So no need to reply to anything above, it's old.

Alright, after searching I'm feeling a little more relaxed now. I was getting a little stressed worrying about if I was running too lean or not.

I finished my turbo setup last week. My turbo is a Turbonetics T3/T04e 50 trim. It's pushing 8psi limited by the TiAL spring. My fuel setup includes stock injectors, Vortech 12:1, and a Walbro 255 HP fuel pump.

It feels very strong, but I am not currently running an A/F gauge and wanted to make sure I'm safe. I know this is a very common 'basic' turbo setup as far as fuel goes, but similar to what DSMcrazy said my car has slight hesitations occasionally during 3rd and 4th gear WOT pulls between 4-5k rpm. My next purchase will be a wideband O2 but I can't afford it right now.

Should I be safe with this turbo at this boost level using the stock injectors with the 12:1 and Walbro?

What kind of A/F have you guys experienced with similar setups?

No one can tell you if your car is running correctly or safetly. Just to many variables.

However you could make a hard run(about 15 seconds or so) under boost. Stop and pull your plugs. If they are specks on the white part of the plug you are lean. If its brown or off white you should be fine. If its black or sooty you are rich. If your plug looks likes it new then its probably a little too lean. Dont take any chances and throw some more fuel to it.

After every pull at the dyno when we were tuning, they pulled my plugs and looked at them with a magnifying glass. They taught me how to read the ground strap to see where the flame front is and if you need to pull or advance your timing. A lot can be told by your plugs. Just do a google search on reading sparkplugs and they will have pics so that you can better see what i am talking about.

crab1092 said:

No one can tell you if your car is running correctly or safetly. Just to many variables.

However you could make a hard run(about 15 seconds or so) under boost. Stop and pull your plugs. If they are specks on the white part of the plug you are lean. If its brown or off white you should be fine. If its black or sooty you are rich. If your plug looks likes it new then its probably a little too lean. Dont take any chances and throw some more fuel to it.

After every pull at the dyno when we were tuning, they pulled my plugs and looked at them with a magnifying glass. They taught me how to read the ground strap to see where the flame front is and if you need to pull or advance your timing. A lot can be told by your plugs. Just do a google search on reading sparkplugs and they will have pics so that you can better see what i am talking about.

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It's funny this thread is revived and I coincidentally just changed and checked my plugs and fuel filter last night. It's a good way to tell if you are running rich or lean(while not having a wideband or a/f gauge). I mean, the past year or so I;ve been under the impression I'm running pig rich. I don't have my wideband hooked up either.

If it makes you feel any better, I have about the same set-up as you, but with the stroker and some other stuff. Anyways I was more then pleasantly surprised to see the condition of my plugs. They looked damn good to me. Not too dark, not too white but that tan you look for. Of anything my 1st cylinder plug was running a tad bit lean. I can't get a good close up with that camera for the life of me..




Both sets are NGK Iridium BRK6's. Those plugs were gapped at about .29. The new ones I put in were gapped at about .32-.33. I'm just testing the waters of anyhing.It sucked because I went and bought some more plugs, then when I went to install them and noticed one was over a .70 gap from the box. When I looked further into it I noticed the electrode had broken off at the tip. So, I had to run back to pepboys, ironically they had none left and that was the last one. It's getting dark out. Car is still apart. There's a Autozone 10 minutes further down the road. Hauled ass there and home with just enough time to finsih up..

OP- I would strongly recommend a wideband. BUt I'm sure you know that. If a wideband isn't possible put some new plugs in, go out and do a few pulls, and check the plugs. Pretty much as Crab said it. I would also recommend a FP gauge; either in cabin or under the hood.

Thanks Crab and Blitz. I'll check the plugs tomorrow in the daylight if I have some time.

And Blitz, haha I have the 2.2 stroker too, so our setup is very similar. And yeah, I know I need a wideband, I just spent my entire current budget on everything else to turbo the car... not enough money left over to spend on a wideband right now. Still in school without a job for 3 more months.

to be completely honest, if you were to hook up an AEM wideband to a car that is running, 8psi with a 12:1 FMU and walbro 255 fuel pump, It would probably peg green rich, like around 10.5 or below.

Just think about how much fuel is coming in under a 12:1 setup (for those of you doing the math, start at 43psi and for every pound of boost you run, add 12)

thats a lot of fuel. however you know us dsm guys can't trust anything, and we need our peice of mind....aka the wideband.

Yeah Randy I thought about that, 12 x 8psi = 96 + 43 = 139psi of fuel pressure. I was concerned that the Walbro couldn't supply that kind of pressure, but I don't really know what it is capable of pressure wise. I do have the high-pressure 255lph model.

BigRand said:

to be completely honest, if you were to hook up an AEM wideband to a car that is running, 8psi with a 12:1 FMU and walbro 255 fuel pump, It would probably peg green rich, like around 10.5 or below.

Just think about how much fuel is coming in under a 12:1 setup (for those of you doing the math, start at 43psi and for every pound of boost you run, add 12)

thats a lot of fuel. however you know us dsm guys can't trust anything, and we need our peice of mind....aka the wideband.

Click to expand...

I can confirm or deny that on the next sunny day I have around here. Will install it then..

BigRand said:

Just think about how much fuel is coming in under a 12:1 setup (for those of you doing the math, start at 43psi and for every pound of boost you run, add 12)

thats a lot of fuel. however you know us dsm guys can't trust anything, and we need our peice of mind....aka the wideband.

Click to expand...

Even more considering those still on the factory ECU and an FMU. Static fuel pressure is 50psi for us non-MS or SFMU types.

chris712vt said:

Yeah Randy I thought about that, 12 x 8psi = 96 + 43 = 139psi of fuel pressure. I was concerned that the Walbro couldn't supply that kind of pressure, but I don't really know what it is capable of pressure wise. I do have the high-pressure 255lph model.

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See above. 12 x 8psi = 96 + 50 = 146psi is what it is trying to provide, but the 255hp seems to peter out around 120psi.

So.... 120 - 50 = 70 / 12 = about 6psi. So would I potentially be leaning out after 6psi? I'm afraid I am because 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear hesitate a little and don't feel right when I hit boost sometimes.

I'm really thinking about just giving in and getting an AEM eugo from extremepsi for $255 even though I shouldn't spend the money right now... but that still won't fix my problem, it will just tell me if I'm running safe or not.

Anyone want to sell me MSnS, injectors and an aeromotive 1:1 for like 200 bucks?