Well first off, the car has been sitting for like 2 months barely being driven. The battery kept dying and I kept jump starting it. So I drove it for the past 3 days, not boosting at all because when I log I am knocking like crazy.

Just idling, if I rev the motor a bit, I get 1-4 counts of knock.
I cant press the gas at all without getting knock.

I retarded the timing a bit by turning the CAS counter clockwise, that didnt help. I did a bosst leak test, found 2 leaks. Fixed the one, the other is the TB shaft seals. That did nothing, still knock. Lastly, I let the car idle till the gas light came on and went to Sunoco and put 93 in it, still knocking like crazy...I dont know whats going on.

On the highway, if I drive next to the median, I can actually hear the detonation whenever I press the gas. What would make me knock like this without even boosting?

I logged the car while boosting..I had 4 counts of knock till around 4300rpms, then its jumps to 40-45 counts of knock for the rest of the pull. Timing started at 20* at 2700 rpm, then slowly dropped to around 15* till 4300rpms, then it drops to like 5* and flutters around there for the rest of the pull.

Whats going on here? I know something is DEF wrong, I just dont know what and how to fix it. Thanks in advance

Replace the knock sensor.

scottsee said:

Replace the knock sensor.

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Is there reasoning behind why you say to replace it? Or are you just guessing?

How are your EGT and Wideband readings? Check your Fuel Trims if you don't have a WB.

One of your injectors could be clogged or you could have a fuel problem elsewhere.

I can get my car to knock at idle by leaning out my SAFC a real, real lot.

A damaged or unhooked knock sensor should read a constant 47 counts. (If I recall correctly)
Make sure your knock sensor is torqued down correctly and not oozing goo.

Running 5 degrees of timing at high rpms is very bad for your engine and will produce high EGTs. If you are getting knock counts as high as you are, I would not drive you car at all.

Check your logger readings to see if something doesn't look right.

There could be something mechanically loose or damaged, try to narrow down where the noise is coming from. You can use a piece of hose as a stethoscope.

Ceddy said:

How are your EGT and Wideband readings? Check your Fuel Trims if you don't have a WB.

One of your injectors could be clogged or you could have a fuel problem elsewhere.

I can get my car to knock at idle by leaning out my SAFC a real, real lot.

A damaged or unhooked knock sensor should read a constant 47 counts. (If I recall correctly)
Make sure your knock sensor is torqued down correctly and not oozing goo.

Running 5 degrees of timing at high rpms is very bad for your engine and will produce high EGTs. If you are getting knock counts as high as you are, I would not drive you car at all.

Check your logger readings to see if something doesn't look right.

There could be something mechanically loose or damaged, try to narrow down where the noise is coming from. You can use a piece of hose as a stethoscope.

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I dont have an EGT gauge or a wideband.

I'll check the knock sensor as soon as I can. I'll also check for loose or damaged things. Are you talking about loose or damaged things within the motor? Or things I can visibly see or feel by inspecting things. Im afraid to start the car to get it somewhere I can work on it at because its knocking so badly.

As for the noise, I cant hear it at idle, only when Im driving along a barrier of some sort. So its hard to tell where its coming from.

If I log my fuel trims: My logger has Fuel Trim High, Fuel Trim Mid, Fuel Trim Low. Which one(s) should I log and what should I be looking for?

I have checked my logger readings, I just dont know enough about tuning and timing to know whats going wrong? I only logged rpm, knock, and timing and all I can say is as the boost goes up, so does the knock. And the timing is retarded.

How would I know if an injector is clogged?

I have never set the base timing to 5* with a timing light, I only ever adjusted by using my datalogger. Do you think this could be the problem?

Set your timing with a timing light the right way. The logger only sees what the ecu sees. The ecu doesnt know that the timing is 5*, it only goes off what you set it at with the connector grounded. You can set your timing at 30* and your logger will still say 5*. It assumes it's always 5* btdc.

If I log my fuel trims: My logger has Fuel Trim High, Fuel Trim Mid, Fuel Trim Low. Which one(s) should I log and what should I be looking for?

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Is this on a 2g? 2g loggers usually only have low(Short Term) and high(Long Term) trims.
If 2g Fuel Trims should be around 100%.
If 1g Fuel Trims should be around 0%.
You Short Term(2g) or Low(1g) trim would show the most if you had a fuel problem.

Your O2 voltage should bounce up and down when not WOT.

I would try to find something that doesn't seem right, to narrow down where the problem is.

Ok well my next plan is to adjust the BISS screw and then the Base Timing to 5*. Thats the order you do it in correct?

This is on a 1g, not a 2g. Ill log the short term fuel trims and get back to you guys, along with the 02 reading.

Do I have to be driving the car to log short term fuel trim and 02 properly? Or can I tell if something is wrong by monitoring while its idling? Im afraid to drive the car anymore than I already have.

Ceddy said:

Running 5 degrees of timing at high rpms is very bad for your engine and will produce high EGTs. If you are getting knock counts as high as you are, I would not drive you car at all.

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What would you suggest then, because every tuning guide I've read says to set your base timing to 5 degrees.

What would you suggest then, because every tuning guide I've read says to set your base timing to 5 degrees.

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Base Timing at 5 degrees is absolutely correct. OP said he was getting a total timing advance of 5 degrees because of knock retard. Running less than 16 degrees total advance(base + ecu timing) is not recommended on stock cast pistons. The exhaust gasses will still be burning at higher rpms with that low total advance and might start to melt stuff.

[QUOTE=If 2g Fuel Trims should be around 100%.
If 1g Fuel Trims should be around 0%.


Shouldn't this be the turned around? 1g fuel trims should all be around 100%.

Ok guys I finally got a chance to mess with the talon.

When we put a timing light on the crank pully the timing mark was below the first mark on the timing plate, the one to the left of the 10* mark. I changed the timing so it was at the bottom mark which I believe is the 5* mark. Since my idle is screwed up, it fluttered from 5* to 10*. I took the car out, just pulling away from stop sign to about 3500rpms I had over 40 counts of knock.

Any chance my CAS is 180* off? What would this do?

At idle my fuel trims are:
Hi -- 135
Mid -- 110
Los -- 139
Any info on this?

My 02 reading was 18.94.

I hope this helps someone fingure out why Im still knocking like crazy??

Like I said earlier, the battery has been dying often. How long does it take for the ECU to run correctly?

Where exactly is 5* BTDC on the timing plate?

If your looking at the timing plate from the driver side, there are 3 lines.

l l l
10

Is the mark all the way to the left 5*? or the one to the right of the 10? I set it to the one to the left. Like this.

l l l
5 10 15

Well I went and looked at a new timing belt cover I had and it actually goes

l l l T
10

So I guess I was wrong? 5 * is actually the third line in from left to right, inbetween the 10 and T. I set the car to that degree and its STILL knocking just as badly as before. Any Ideas?

Can someone help me with my fuel trims and 02? Explain them to me.

Those fuel trims indicate that you're running pretty lean... I would use whatever fuel mgmt tool you may have to richen things up a bit. That could be the reason you're pulling timing in itself.

You said that you can hear it at idle. Are you sure you dont have bearing out of the bottom end?? The knock sensor would pick up bad knocking in the bottom end. Especially 2g sensors. Check and make sure your o2 sensor is not bad. The sensor could be either stuck rich or stuck lean. The ecu will try to correct it by adding or taking away fuel. If the car is pulling timing when you def hear something im gonna say that the sensor is working correctly. If if was bad it would prob not pull timing.

Well thats the thing, I dont have any fuel mgmt, the car is pretty much stock. And I dont understand why Im knocking when Im not boosting, thats when most people knock, under boost.

Once I set the base timing, I dont hear the knocking at idle anymore, but Im still knocking according to my logger when Im driving.

The knocking I heard at idle wasnt a mechanical knock, it was a detonation knock.
BTW, this is a 1g Talon, not my 2g eclipse.

How do I check the 02 sensor? All I know is when I logged it, it stayed at a steady number, it didnt move at all.

First of all, boost leak test and post what you find.

92awddsm said:

First of all, boost leak test and post what you find.

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Spoolin98 said:

I did a bosst leak test, found 2 leaks. Fixed the one, the other is the TB shaft seals. That did nothing, still knock.

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In his first post.

exile said:

In his first post.

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Thank you.

I know I still have the TB shaft seals leaking, but thats not enough to make me knock the way I am is it?

^^doubtful

Are you positive its not something tapping?
A knock sensor will pic up a noise from something tapping the engine block.

It could be "phantom knock." Many people have had it, including myself.

It could be something tapping? I put revised lifters in it, so thats not it. I dont hear anything else tapping at idle?

How can I tell if its "phantom knock"??

When I say tapping I mean anything vibrating against the engine. Like stated before, usually you dont hear knock or ping at idle