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MULTIPLE blown turbos!!!

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dsmguy904

Probationary Member
20
1
Apr 14, 2005
Des Moines, Iowa
I have just recently encountered a serious problem with my 90 eclipse gsx. about 3 weeks ago i blew the seals out on the old 13g that was in my car from the previous owners (had an auto 6bolt put in a manual car). By the way, for reference, all the other auto parts have been replaced by manual parts (had to put together another engine and put in 2 weeks before my recent problem here).

Anyway, after the 13g blew the seals, i got a 14b turbo from a fellow dsmer here (SolidBoostTsi) put that one in, and had the seals on that one blow almost instantly. so by then i figured since he didnt even know the history of that turbo that i had just had bad luck with turbos. so instead of buyin another turbo, i got a rebuild kit, rebuilt it and put it back in. this is where it gets really wierd. THIS ONE BLEW THE SEALS TOO!!!! once again, almost instantly as well. i made sure with both turbos to prime it before starting the car too. so obviously now i am REALLY angry cause this car was down for 5 months prior due to a burned valve. and it was only running fine for 2 weeks and now this.:mad:

the one problem i can think of to cause this is that my oil pressure is WAY too high. i dont have access right now to a real oil pressure gauge, but the factory inaccurate gauge does show the pressure as being a little on the high side at idle but even at 3000 it doesnt go overly high. but since this seems to be it, what all can cause high oil pressure? i know that a restriction in the system can cause this problem, but how can i easily fix that without tearing apart the whole engine? or what should i start out checking?

Thanks in advance for any help,;)
Steve:dsm:
 
For the record, on a modern turbo with dynamic (piston-ring style) seals, it's very very difficult to "blow" the seals. Most smoking problems are related to high oil pressure inside the center section, either from abnormally high pressure at the inlet, or a restriction at the outlet.

First things first, I'd yank your drain line off, since it's very easy to get at, and make absolutely sure there's nothing stuck in it (remnants of old gasket, RTV, etc.)

Failing that, a mechanical oil pressure gauge is very cheap, certainly much cheaper than a bunch of turbochargers. They can be had very easily for < $20, and only take a few minutes to install. Check your oil pressure.

More likely than not, once you fix the issue of too much oil in the center section, the turbos that you thought were "blown" will work just fine again.
 
(had to put together another engine and put in 2 weeks before my recent problem here).
Did you do a balance shaft elimination?

the one problem i can think of to cause this is that my oil pressure is WAY too high. i dont have access right now to a real oil pressure gauge, but the factory inaccurate gauge does show the pressure as being a little on the high side at idle but even at 3000 it doesnt go overly high. but since this seems to be it, what all can cause high oil pressure? i know that a restriction in the system can cause this problem, but how can i easily fix that without tearing apart the whole engine? or what should i start out checking?
You really should consider getting a gauge so you know exactly how bad the problem is. Remember the more rpms, the higher the oil pressure goes. Did you port the oil relief valve? Have you checked your PCV valve? After you rebuilt/replaced the engine, did you do oil changes any more frequently, or have you changed the oil yet?
 
well, i will see about gettin an oil pressure gauge, but see, money is REALLY tight right now so everything i have to do needs to be extremely cheap. second, taking the return line off was going to be my first major step, i just posted on here so i can get some opinions and to get a way to come back to once i started slowing finding things. also, to reply to delta448, the balance shafts were NOT eliminated, and i know about the problem you were thinking of, but i obviously dont have that. also, is the PCV actually able to cause a high oil pressure problem? cause its obviously quite a bit. lastly, when i replaced the engine (on the cheap, perfect 60,000 mile original shortblock, head w/ 100 miles) i have only gotten to drive it for not even 2 weeks which was not even 200 miles!! even then i usually change my oil on a VERY strictly close schedule (at the latest 3k) usually more like at 2k-2.5k. well right now im workin alot, but when i do get some free time i will start checkin stuff out but if anyone comes up with any other ideas. please post. i need this car back on the road after almost 6 months of downtime.

thanks,
Steve
 
well i tried the idea i had to change the oil and remove the oil return to clear it out, but to no help. so unfortunately it still smokes and has the same problem, so for my next question, how possible is it that my oil pressure relief valve may have stuck and caused this problem??? because if you have known this to happen then i think this could be my next thing to check when i get some spare time (not very often). otherwise, any other ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Why do you think the seals are blown in the turbo? Do you have oil in your intake tract?

If you dont, I would say you have a valve stem seal problem. That doesnt require high oil pressure to cause problems. (blow smoke) Its also cheap to fix ;)
 
As others have said the oil control ring on the turbo shaft is metal. It's nearly impossible to "blow" this. I'm guessing not enough restriction on the supply. Garrett and others call for 7psi of oil supply. The garrett techs have often told me to put a restrictor and make sure it's got a 1/16 hole in it. Some have suggested using nitrous jets but I've never done this. Normally I just use a brass fitting and solder the hole shut then drill it with the 1/16 bit. On stainless fittings I just TIG the _BOTTOM_ closed and drill it. Make sure if you've got a JIC or -AN fitting that you don't disturb the flare shape where the oil line attaches.

-Michael
 
well first lets clarify this: I KNOW FOR CERTAIN IT IS NOT THE SEALS IN THE TURBO ITSELF!!! i have found the SYSTEM oil pressure is extremely high, but i dont have a "real" oil pressure gauge, but even the stock gauge is showing WAY too high. i know that the real problem is REALLY high system oil pressure because of this:

1. the stock gauge at idle warmed up completely is in the middle of the gauge.
2. oil is pushing through my valve cover gasket when it never did before
3. the oil/light antifreeze mix is coming through BOTH sides of the turbo, intake and exhaust.

so hopefully this can help you understand a little better since i havent been able to be on here much since my own computer was stolen like a month ago:(

the only idea left is to replace the oil pressure relief valve spring & piston, even though i took it apart and didnt notice anything wierd, but is it possible that the spring has just gotten WAY too stiff over time? i just want to know if ANYONE has ever heard of this happening because for my knowledge of this problem about the only thing that would cause such extremely high system pressure is that relief valve.

once again, any help is GREATLY appreciated ;)
Thanks,
Steve
 
oh and one more thing, the stem seals all have less than 300 miles on them and when i swapped out turbos from my old 13g that started this whole thing, the exhaust ports were clean as a whistle, so there isnt any oil being directly injected into the combustion chamber or anything like that.
 
Do a compression test to see if the air from inside you motor is making it past you valves seals. What kind of oil are you running? The turbo you had rebuild did you do it yourself and if so did you have the shaft in the turbo balanced?
 
oh and one more thing, the stem seals all have less than 300 miles on them and when i swapped out turbos from my old 13g that started this whole thing, the exhaust ports were clean as a whistle, so there isnt any oil being directly injected into the combustion chamber or anything like that.

Could be coolant getting into through your head gaskit and causing a steaming/cleaning affect on the exhaust ports. May also explain why their is oil in the coolant
 
Could be coolant getting into through your head gaskit and causing a steaming/cleaning affect on the exhaust ports. May also explain why their is oil in the coolant

there is no coolant in the oil, i already checked that. and it is DEFINITELY NOT a blown head gasket for the final time!!! it is the fact that i have EXTREMELY high oil pressure constantly and have no idea where else to look!!! i have already checked the oil pressure relief valve to no effect, have cleaned the system out with atf, and took off the oil feed and return lines to no effect. I am just really annoyed with this car cause i need this fixed but no one has any idea what else it could be.

You have to realize that this is EXTREME pressures we are dealing with cause it is pushing through the seals in my turbo and even on the factory gauge it is showing extremely high.
 
There aren't a lot of things that can cause extremely high oil pressure. It's either a faulty pressure relief valve or some material lodged in one of the oil passages. Get a real oil pressure gauge first, you should be able to find one for around $20 at the parts store, it doesn't have to be anything special, just a generic mechanical gauge will work.

There is no oil pressure inside the top of the cylinder head, so if your valve cover gasket is leaking, it isn't from high oil pressure.

What exactly did you do to the oil pressure relief valve? Has this engine always had this problem or was it something that just developed overnight?
 
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