Guys I have to confess....I drove a Miata this weekend.

It was another great weekend for a trackday out at Texas World Speedway. Then in session 2 my buddy with the black 1G AWD dropped 2 off. When he came back on the track we think the lip caught his oil cooler (air) which removed it from his car. He noticed the power level drop and the temps rising, so he headed to the pits. From the turn that it happened to the pits was still a good part of a mile. Well he shut it down and called it.

So Sunday determined to have everyone out on the track again, I lent him my 2G. My brother has since moved to the next run group and we got clearance for me to drive his Miata. And that's how it all began.

At first I was a bit nervous since I've never driven anything other than a AWD at speed, but man was that car easy to drive. After lap 2 I already knew I was going faster in the Miata than I had accomplished in my GSX the day before. We swallowed up the pack and even attained my solo license. For the last session of the day I took out my GSX for one last spin to get a comparison, but was cut short due to fuel cut...knew we should have filled up at lunch.

So I left the weekend happy but confused and need the advice from this board. What to do? Keep with the Eclipse or swap platforms? For reference:

1999 Miata:
- stock engine
- Tein Basic coilovers
- Front Mazdaspeed swaybar
- Nitto NT-01

Go with both. I have my 2g DSM that I love to drive around but I am now getting into an SCCA class called spec miata and it is so much fun to fly around the track in that little thing. During one practice session while it was raining I was able to pass some corvettes and even some porches. Although I would never think of driving one for street use I love racing that little thing.

Miata has r-compounds and you don't so that's an unfair comparision to your poor Eclipse. I know the Miata handles better in tests, but at least give your Eclipse a fighting chance.

shift_racer said:

Go with both. I have my 2g DSM that I love to drive around but I am now getting into an SCCA class called spec miata and it is so much fun to fly around the track in that little thing. During one practice session while it was raining I was able to pass some corvettes and even some porches. Although I would never think of driving one for street use I love racing that little thing.

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Yeah we have a huge following with NASA's spec Miata class. Ultra competitive with tons on money spent on extracting that last 2-3 HP as an advantage. I'm not at the level yet to race, but time trials is just around the corner.

Flash said:

Miata has r-compounds and you don't so that's an unfair comparision to your poor Eclipse. I know the Miata handles better in tests, but at least give your Eclipse a fighting chance.

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You make a strong argument there and the wheels are already there to accept the larger rubber. After beating my head against the wall I can honestly say weight was probably the largest factor between the two. Maybe a little more neg. camber in the front and stickies will shed some light. Like you said...give your Eclipse a fighting chance.

No contest in my opinion. There's something about turbo spoolup at corner exit and having all 4 tires clawing at the ground trying to keep you on track that makes it an obvious choice for me. I'd love to drive a FR car on a course some time though, something like an FC or FD RX7. Were you actually turning faster times in the Miata or did it just feel like it?

Also, how exactly did the oil cooler get ripped off? I'm running one on my car now and your post made me worried about my not-so-professional mounting system for my cooler

I'd say both also. I'd never give up my AWD (even though it's set up to tend toward RWD Oversteer a bit...), but there is something fantastic about how light and nimble the miatas are. Some sticky rubber on them and they can be flung around a track so nicely. I've considered getting a miata also, but, that'd cut into the DSM funds. At some point, I'll definitely find one though (a hard-top). If you can afford it, it'd be a great secondary. And they are cheap, so you shouldn't need to compromise...

pnishr I just noticed both you and I have RRE rear swaybars and crank scrapers, both parts you don't see very often.

eclipsegsx1736 said:

No contest in my opinion. There's something about turbo spoolup at corner exit and having all 4 tires clawing at the ground trying to keep you on track that makes it an obvious choice for me. I'd love to drive a FR car on a course some time though, something like an FC or FD RX7. Were you actually turning faster times in the Miata or did it just feel like it?

Also, how exactly did the oil cooler get ripped off? I'm running one on my car now and your post made me worried about my not-so-professional mounting system for my cooler

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My brother's Miata was posting in the 2.10 range. In the Eclipse I'm up in the 2.30 and in the Miata near the 2.22. I know the Eclipse can be faster, just need to get the driver mod working. The Miata was easier to handle which probably gave me a little more confidence to push harder.

His oil cooler was mounted in the common driver's front side duct. I dont know what it looked like before being extracted from the car, but there was a good size dent along the bottem where it looked like the lip of the track caught it. It didn't hang low, but I think with the front wheel off and the extra drop due to the suspension compressing was enough for the track to get a hold of it.

The one downside I can see is the total lack of straight-line oomph. How much fun is it to pass somebody in a series of tight corners only to have them shoot off into the distance ahead of you on the first straight? Maybe a supercharged or turbocharged Miata.

Believe it or not I have that same problem in the GSX. Running a 14B at 14lbs of boost isn't enough to keep up with the S2Ks or 350Z, much less a Viper or Vette on the straight. I'm faster than the Minis and Miatas though =)

It's a characteristic I kinda like though. It really makes you make the most out of each corner knowing that there's no way to make up that momentum on the straights. So when you botch one corner you kinda feel it for the next 2 or 3. Then again if your fast enough through the corners, even a mighty V8 can't make that up on the straights.

Oh yeah and....Rotary Miata =)

asian312 said:

Believe it or not I have that same problem in the GSX. Running a 14B at 14lbs of boost isn't enough to keep up with the S2Ks or 350Z, much less a Viper or Vette on the straight. I'm faster than the Minis and Miatas though =)

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You need more instruction. At some point, you will have an epiphany--a moment of clarity, as the alcoholics call it, where everything you've been taught and told about driving an AWD car at speed makes sense. You will get much faster overnight. You'll learn that the "AWD line" actually works, you'll learn how to turn in and nail the throttle, and you will start gobbling up the lesser cars. It's possible to learn it by yourself, but I got my epiphany from an instructor who kept yelling, "It will stick! Hit it!" And by gawd, it did. Ding! I was suddenly faster.

Do not underestimate the value of a good instructor.

Go back to Chuck. Even your 14B GSX can run with Vettes and M3s if you drive it hard enough.

Slow old poop said:

You need more instruction. At some point, you will have an epiphany--a moment of clarity, as the alcoholics call it, where everything you've been taught and told about driving an AWD car at speed makes sense. You will get much faster overnight. You'll learn that the "AWD line" actually works, you'll learn how to turn in and nail the throttle, and you will start gobbling up the lesser cars. It's possible to learn it by yourself, but I got my epiphany from an instructor who kept yelling, "It will stick! Hit it!" And by gawd, it did. Ding! I was suddenly faster.

Do not underestimate the value of a good instructor.

Go back to Chuck. Even your 14B GSX can run with Vettes and M3s if you drive it hard enough.

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Tell me about it. I do like having an instructor in the passenger seat. The feedback keeps the smiles going.

Think I misrepresented in that quote. I meant in just a standing drag race those cars have enough power to best my 14B. I've had a taste of the AWD line when I was instructed by Chuck and Kevin. Both took very different lines and approaches, but both had merit. My other instructors dont seems to be a fan of upsetting the car and helping it rotate to fight the natural understeer, so I tend to get more instruction on driving a high HP RWD car or even the FWD push past the apex technique. I love learning all the different styles and lines, just seems no one is consistent in an AWD approach.

What about you Rich? Could you describe what your driving style is like through say a left-right-left esse and a decreasing radius turn? I'm trying to absorb all I can, because next time its solo for me. Get to dabble a bit.

asian312 said:

What about you Rich? Could you describe what your driving style is like through say a left-right-left esse and a decreasing radius turn? I'm trying to absorb all I can, because next time its solo for me. Get to dabble a bit.

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The conventional line is to lift, brake, turn left, add throttle gradually until you reach full throttle at corner out. Repeat for the right turn.

My line is: lift, brake, turn left, floor the throttle immediately (corner permitting, of course), and hold full throttle until it's time to repeat for the right.

The difference is that I am at full throttle from the moment of turn in. RWD cars can't do this because they get power oversteer, so you eat up Vettes, 911s and M3s.

To do this, you need an instructor who will yell at you that the car will stick, because it is a scary proposition the first time you try it. You think you are going off into the bushes, and the car can't possible make it around, but it does, thanks to the AWD. The method works for all tires, from street to sticky.

Also, look for places where you can "straightline" two or more corners. In other words, instead of elegantly swinging back and forth across the track through a series of esses, look for a straight line through there.

Remember that there is no coasting in racing. You are either hard on the brakes or hard on the throttle in an AWD car. This means that even on short little straights between corners, hammer the throttle for a second or two, then slam on the brakes.

Finally, drive the track, not the other cars. Do not use the lines of lesser cars. Find your AWD line, find corners you can straightline, and ignore what everybody else is doing.

It is impossible to describe a recipe for decreasing radius turn. They are all different. Obviously, you can't use the technique described above.

Your technique sounds very similar to the one I did in the rain at TWS. Is the turn in slightly more aggressive and the track out is like a controlled AWD slide/drift to the track out (car is pointed down track, but moving in the lateral direction)?

All makes sense....including why your brakes love you

asian312 said:

Your technique sounds very similar to the one I did in the rain at TWS. Is the turn in slightly more aggressive and the track out is like a controlled AWD slide/drift to the track out (car is pointed down track, but moving in the lateral direction)? All makes sense....including why your brakes love you

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In the rain, it's more like driving a rally car, and it does slide some. A slight, controlled slide in the rain is the fast way around for an AWD car.

In the dry, the turn in is VERY aggressive (Sharp!) and, yes, the car does tend to slide a little. "Skittering" is more like it, as it dances on the edge of traction. You don't want to slide in the dry, because it scrubs off speed.

Brakes are for stopping hard, lap after lap, without fading or cracking. If they can't do that, they need to be replaced with something that can.

Well that helped a lot. I know which instructor I need to request for a ride along. Just curious on your setup. Do you have any upgraded LSDs in your drivetrain?