I just completed a rebuild on my 6 bolt. Reman'd head w/ new valve seals, Webcam 546/547 cams. comp head gasket w/ arp studs, all new gaskets every where, new rod/main bearings, piston rings, timing belt and components, new water pump, and bs elim. Cyls were checked for round and got a fresh hone.

ARP's have been retorques after a few heat cycles.

Smokes pretty bad, but runs great. Poor ring seal? I don't recall the endgaps, but they were all within specs.....yes, i measured every one.

There is roughly 50 miles on the rebuild. I used the motoman method for break in.....3rd gear WOT from 30-60 mph, then decel to 30, the WOT to 60....etc.

Compression is 100 across the board.

Any suggestions?

do a compression test and then a leakdown test and let us know what you find.

Is there smoke coming from under the hood or just out the tailpipe?
How are your temps?
What color is the smoke; blue, black, gray, white ...etc.?
Leakdown test?

^^ The results from thoughs tests will likely tell.

I think your the first person I have read of actually useing the "moto man" tech for break in. Also isn't that technique used mostly on two cycle engines?

RipperXX said:

^^ The results from thoughs tests will likely tell.

I think your the first person I have read of actually useing the "moto man" tech for break in. Also isn't that technique used mostly on two cycle engines?

Click to expand...

Make that 2 you have heard of, I used that method. rings seated perfect.

Luvmygst......how long did it take to seat your rings? Did you have any initial smoking issues?

The smoke is coming from the tailpipe.....it is oil. down 1/2 quart after 50 miles.

Loss of compression is definately from the rings

When installing the rings, did you put the gap 180deg from each other? Did you put the rings right side up?
-Chad

Put some more miles on it then test it again... And i did motoman also and everything seems fine on my end.

yes, end gaps were 189 degrees, and i am POSITIVE i installed them right side up.

I did some driving today, and noticed that sometimes it smokes and sometimes it doesn't.

Its weird and bugging the piss out of me.

Sounds like you may need to vary the RPM and load a bit more, not just WOT from 30-60 all the time. I used the Motoman method as well and my fresh motor stopped smoking in about 10 miles, I started with little load and low RPMs and gradually worked up to WOT and high RPMs, always letting the engine decelerate itself.

Mine stopped smoking almost instantly. Mabey 5-10 miles at the most. Be sure to change the oil ALOT for the first 1k miles.

Already done the first oil change.

Why am i having such a smoking issue? Eveyone is saying smoking stopped @ 10 miles into it, here i am at 50 miles and she is still smoking like a trailer park mother with a carton of Newports!!!!

I also used the same method, 2k miles compression is perfect, smoking pretty much stopped after the initial run.

1. Is it smoke screen constantly?

2. Did you perform the compression test CORRECTLY? As in motor fully warmed up, throttle fully open and battery fully charged? Did you try another tester?

3. Is your PCV system properly routed as in pcv to manifold and breather to intake pipe? Dipstick popping out?

4. Did you boost leak tested before the runs?

5. Is your car properly tuned?

oldman said:

I also used the same method, 2k miles compression is perfect, smoking pretty much stopped after the initial run.

1. Is it smoke screen constantly?

2. Did you perform the compression test CORRECTLY? As in motor fully warmed up, throttle fully open and battery fully charged? Did you try another tester?

3. Is your PCV system properly routed as in pcv to manifold and breather to intake pipe? Dipstick popping out?

4. Did you boost leak tested before the runs?

5. Is your car properly tuned?

Click to expand...

1. No, the smoke comes and goes.

2. Yes, engine at operating temp, all plugs out, new battery, and WOT. I did try an older tester at work, and got 125 across the board, but mine is brand new, so i went with those readings.

3. Yes, PCV is properly routed and functional.....dipstick isn't popping out.

4. No boost leaks anywhere. I checked before i even fired up the car for the first time. And again after 40 miles to double check...still none.

5. Car was tuned with a WBO2 before the last engine went. After the rebuild, i noticed that AFR were a little rich. This doesn't make much sense to me since i didn't have the webcams in before the rebuild. I figured AFR's would be a little leaner. Anyway, I lowered the base fuel pressure a bit and got my trims in check. Low 98, mid 96, hi 92.



Another thing i noticed, and don't know if it is relavant, my coolant temps seem to run a tad bit warmer.....@ 10 deg. My aftermarket gauge used to go to @ 212 then the drop to 195 after the thermostat opened. Now it will go up to 230, then drop back down to 195. I am putting in a new one today. I just thought i would throw it out there.

tom04841 said:

1. No, the smoke comes and goes.

Click to expand...

Then don't freak out just yet, give it more time. However, I actually compression tested after the initial warm up before run and compression was 145 across and now it's in the 170's, hopefully yours will come up as well. BTW, kudos on the preperation, most don't have the patience to go through all the precautionary steps, good luck.

Ok, worst case scenario, if it doesn't come up, what am i looking at? Reringing the pistons again?

tom04841 said:

Ok, worst case scenario, if it doesn't come up, what am i looking at? Reringing the pistons again?

Click to expand...

Most likely, have you follow the dry test with a wet test yet?

I haven't. I figured there was so much oil getting by, that it should already be wet...... I will tomorrow and post back.

I broke mine in the Motoman method as well, but I did mine a little differently. I let it warm up after first start to check for leaks and what not. Then I put boost back to stock. Then I changed the oil. Then I idled out to the highway and proceeded to do 3rd and 4th gear pulls and let it decel back down in gear. Then came home and changed the oil. Then did an oil change at 500 and then again at 1500 and then every 3k since. About 10k on the motor of daily driving and beating the snot out of it and it's just fine.

I hope you figure this out, car problems suck when you actually care about the car.

Well, i have more to add if this helps. I disconnected the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake tube and you could feel the air coming out....leaves and oily residue on my hand. This was at idle. The more you rev it, the more comes out.

I left it unhooked from the intake tube...i don't want that feeding thru my newer turbo.

I am running speed density, so it shouldn't matter much

thats blowby. The rings arent seated fully yet (low compression) so it makes sense.
Have you found any consistancies yet as to when the car smokes? Or is its still completely random?

Are you still running on the rich side? Ive always like to run a little lean for my engine break in as i wont have fuel washing down the cyl's and not letting the rings seat. Im not really driving my engine that hard at the time so running slightly lean doesnt really matter.

tom04841 said:

Well, i have more to add if this helps. I disconnected the hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake tube and you could feel the air coming out....leaves and oily residue on my hand. This was at idle. The more you rev it, the more comes out.

I left it unhooked from the intake tube...i don't want that feeding thru my newer turbo.

I am running speed density, so it shouldn't matter much

Click to expand...

Speed density has nothing to do with it, this means you're getting excessive blow by and vacuum in the intake pipe created by the spooling turbo (active venting) helps tremendously in relieving crankcase pressure which is something you need the most right now, much better than passive venting. If you're concern about dirtying up your turbo, install one of these.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254437

Never thought of using one of those. I'll pick one up tomorrow. I Now have 100 miles on the motor, and it isn't getting any better. I am seriously thinking of just tearing it down next weekend and try putting some new rings in.

If it cures it, GREAT!!! If it doesn't, i am out $100 (hg and rings) and a days time....that is nothing compared to what i have in it at this point.

id still give the rings some more time to seal. In your other thread like 4 people said to give the motor some more miles. then you started this thread. Give the motor some more time. Hop on the freeway and drive 20 miles one way and 20 miles back. Drive up to 60 mph easially then let off down to 50 then up to 65 then let off to 55 then up to 70 and let off decellerate until 60 mph, then cruise at 60 for a min and start the sequence over. You can do it at slower mph if you dont feel like going up to 70 and the freeways are clear. This is how i broke my motor in. Like i said i didnt check compression until about 300 miles so i cant tell you how soon my rings seated. My friends dad who built my motor and has owned a machine shop for 40 years told me this is how to break in my motor and it worked for me.

Unlike your motor and a lot of other motors mine didnt smoke AT ALL upon first startup. Not even white smoke from condensation.


also, like oldman said, leave your pcv system intact, install a catch can if you worry about the oil gettin into your turbo, but you need that turbo on there to help suck all the blow by gasses out of your crank case. THis is the most important time for the pvc system to be hooked up.


When you did the motoman method, how much boost did you give your new motor when you went wot? Most people i know that did this method pulled the wastegate arm off of the flapper so they wouldnt make too much boost (5-10psi) and could still go WOT. If you have a repair manual (which i assume you do since you overhauled your own motor) the new engine break in technique is very similar to the motoman method, so you probably didnt F that up.

Well, i put some compressed air to cyl 1. Nothing out the intake or exhaust, but you can hear it in the valve cover. Just basically confirms what i thought.

Plugs were oily on 1,2,&3, but 4 is clean. Same compression on all 4 though.

I know the webcams will bring it down just a little, but it is still sitting at 100 on all 4.

Breather tube is plumbed back into the intake tube.

I am still running a little rich at idle because of the low compression, so i dialed the afpr down another 5 psi. That brought my afr to @ 14:1. I am @ 15:1 off idle until boost hits.

Did another oil change today. Oil didn't smell of fuel, so i doubt it is washing down the cyl walls.

How many miles do you guys think i should go before i make the decision to try some new rings?

Any other suggestions?