I have a friend that will weld the internal gate closed for me. I might run it without boost control. Just beat the hell out of it for a couple of weeks while I finish my 60trim. Will this yield max performance or would 5psi under max be best? Probably going to try this either way but was just curious what tuner insight would be.

seems like you want to blow the t25 and then have no turbo to use till your 60 trim gets rebuilt. very stupid idea.

ILLiCliPSE said:

seems like you want to blow the t25 and then have no turbo to use till your 60 trim gets rebuilt. very stupid idea.

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What's more stupid having fun with an old turbo that is only collecting dust or assuming that someone with my mod list went from a T25 to a 60Trim without an intermediate turbo in between...like a 16G perhaps?
If you don't have something constructive to add don't try and make yourself feel like a tech god at my expense. I'm only having fun here.

From what I've read T25 turbos send bearing material through the engine when they fail. So if you push the turbo to failure, you might be pushing your engine to failure as well. Better to leave it at 14-15 psi- the T25 is a complete failure of a turbo that isn't up to any strenuous task. Not like a 14b that will run fastest no wastegate line, max boost ~25 psi and keep on ticking.

Caithness said:

From what I've read T25 turbos send bearing material through the engine when they fail. So if you push the turbo to failure, you might be pushing your engine to failure as well. Better to leave it at 14-15 psi- the T25 is a complete failure of a turbo that isn't up to any strenuous task. Not like a 14b that will run fastest no wastegate line, max boost ~25 psi and keep on ticking.

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Thanks, that's very informative. I've never read that before, but I'll certainly take it into consideration when I set the boost on it.

I watched first hand a guy dyno a BPU (exhaust, afc, fmic, fuel pump, intake) GST with the stock T-25. At 15 psi he made 190 whp, cool, at 20 psi he made..........190 whp. I never noticed a difference in 18 psi from 15 psi. And at high boost levels, those turbos never last long, just do the right thing, put it on and run it at low boost, cause in the end, your only driving it to get around till your real turbo gets put back together, and nobody on the road with you even cares about your car and how it runs except you, its a hard truth.

rampridersrider said:

I watched first hand a guy dyno a BPU (exhaust, afc, fmic, fuel pump, intake) GST with the stock T-25. At 15 psi he made 190 whp, cool, at 20 psi he made..........190 whp. I never noticed a difference in 18 psi from 15 psi. And at high boost levels, those turbos never last long, just do the right thing, put it on and run it at low boost, cause in the end, your only driving it to get around till your real turbo gets put back together, and nobody on the road with you even cares about your car and how it runs except you, its a hard truth.

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What are you talking about hard truth? Where in this post did I make it seem like I cared what other people thought? I made this thread for the first piece of information you provided, first hand experience with pushing T25's to the limit. 190 whp is not the best a T25 can do btw, I've gotten more with a good tune.

I am NOT worried about killing the turbo. I am worried about killing the engine. So far two people have alluded to T25 failure being relatively high when compared to other turbos. I appreciate the advice but no one has provided a first hand account of this or referenced their source. T25's have a terrible reputation, but in my experience it's related to it's inability to produce power compared to the 14B. Is that why people are saying what they are saying or is there a legitimate problem with the T25 running at it's max?

The post I read to back that up was talking about a car somebody was building for some race class where you had to run a stock turbo. The guy wanted the most power he could get out of the car so he was pushing the T25 hard and blew a couple of them over some period of time, say a couple of months. Nobody thought much of it because they were cheap and easy to find until his recently replaced engine blew up. They pulled it out and found large chunks of turbo bearing in the oil pan, while presumably a large amount of smaller particulates went through the engine and killed it. I would find the post for you but I have no idea where it was that I read it.

cmjdskates said:

What are you talking about hard truth? Where in this post did I make it seem like I cared what other people thought? I made this thread for the first piece of information you provided, first hand experience with pushing T25's to the limit. 190 whp is not the best a T25 can do btw, I've gotten more with a good tune.

I am NOT worried about killing the turbo. I am worried about killing the engine. So far two people have alluded to T25 failure being relatively high when compared to other turbos. I appreciate the advice but no one has provided a first hand account of this or referenced their source. T25's have a terrible reputation, but in my experience it's related to it's inability to produce power compared to the 14B. Is that why people are saying what they are saying or is there a legitimate problem with the T25 running at it's max?

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Ok, how's this for first hand. I bought my car in July of 05 with 80k miles on it. It was bone stock. After a month of driving it, I finally bought some mods which included a mbc. Now before this I had ZERO shaft play. It didn't burn oil at all, and spooled up great. After two months of running it at 15-17 psi, depending on weather, it blew the seals out and ate itself alive. A friend of mine whom I talk to quite frequently, bought a GST. After turning the boost up to 15-17 psi, it shit all over the place. I know 190 whp is not the best, but its what he laid down. They only way I can express how the come apart is this. Take the spare tire in your trunk and put it on your car. Now while it maybe good for 55-70 mph, thats it. Take that same tire up to 120 mph for about a mile down the road. It won't handle that kind of speed because of its design and size.

Now explain to me why you even want to turn a T-25 up that high. It will be fun for a second or two. Yah you'll laugh, and then that will be it, but what I gather is that that is the only turbo you have right now and you want to max out the boost pressure on it because you have all the supporting mods to do. I think you want to do this so you can impress anyone you might encounter on the road, thats my opinion, but anybody that knows anything about dsm's will laugh at you when you tell them you are running 25 psi on the stock turbo, and then when you "race" someone, and you tell them "im running 25 psi on the stock turbo", and then you get owned, who will be laughing then......them. Thats just my opinion, take it as you will.

your just going to be blowing hot air with the t25 past 16 psi. i still dont understand from the posts above how turbo falure can lead to engine failure. that is complete nonsence. if you think about it logically the turbo is run off the exhaust air of the engine, so how is it going to get back into the engine?

arash15 said:

your just going to be blowing hot air with the t25 past 16 psi. i still dont understand from the posts above how turbo falure can lead to engine failure. that is complete nonsence. if you think about it logically the turbo is run off the exhaust air of the engine, so how is it going to get back into the engine?

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Read the posts again, they clearly mention bearing material from the turbo going into the engine and destroying it.

arash15 said:

your just going to be blowing hot air with the t25 past 16 psi. i still dont understand from the posts above how turbo falure can lead to engine failure. that is complete nonsence. if you think about it logically the turbo is run off the exhaust air of the engine, so how is it going to get back into the engine?

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The stock oil line on the T-25 is fed from directly after the oil filter housing, so its getting brand new oil, then as the oil goes into the turbo and its bearing, it then flows out into the return line into the oil pan where it enters all the bearings of the mains and rods and such, etc etc, so since the turbo comes first, anything coming from the turbo goes through the entire motor. I'm not a guru, but it makes perfect since.

cmjdskates said:

What's more stupid having fun with an old turbo that is only collecting dust or assuming that someone with my mod list went from a T25 to a 60Trim without an intermediate turbo in between...like a 16G perhaps?
If you don't have something constructive to add don't try and make yourself feel like a tech god at my expense. I'm only having fun here.

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Ok so dont come crying to me when you blow the T25 and your car is down for weeks because you dont have a turbo to use until your 60 trim gets built. run it at 15psi and be done with it. anything past that is worthless anyway.

rampridersrider said:

Ok, how's this for first hand. I bought my car in July of 05 with 80k miles on it. It was bone stock. After a month of driving it, I finally bought some mods which included a mbc. Now before this I had ZERO shaft play. It didn't burn oil at all, and spooled up great. After two months of running it at 15-17 psi, depending on weather, it blew the seals out and ate itself alive. A friend of mine whom I talk to quite frequently, bought a GST. After turning the boost up to 15-17 psi, it shit all over the place. I know 190 whp is not the best, but its what he laid down. They only way I can express how the come apart is this. Take the spare tire in your trunk and put it on your car. Now while it maybe good for 55-70 mph, thats it. Take that same tire up to 120 mph for about a mile down the road. It won't handle that kind of speed because of its design and size.

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This was good.

rampridersrider said:

Now explain to me why you even want to turn a T-25 up that high. It will be fun for a second or two. Yah you'll laugh, and then that will be it, but what I gather is that that is the only turbo you have right now and you want to max out the boost pressure on it because you have all the supporting mods to do. I think you want to do this so you can impress anyone you might encounter on the road, thats my opinion, but anybody that knows anything about dsm's will laugh at you when you tell them you are running 25 psi on the stock turbo, and then when you "race" someone, and you tell them "im running 25 psi on the stock turbo", and then you get owned, who will be laughing then......them. Thats just my opinion, take it as you will.

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ILLiCliPSE said:

Ok so dont come crying to me when you blow the T25 and your car is down for weeks because you dont have a turbo to use until your 60 trim gets built. run it at 15psi and be done with it. anything past that is worthless anyway.

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What is wrong with you people? Do you know what selective reading is? A retarded chimp could grasp this quicker. Let me spell it out to you since being facetious didn't work. I have three turbo's. My original T25, a 16G that's been sitting for 3 months and a 60trim that is boxed up ready to ship. I want to have fun with my car while waiting for a rebuild, but I don't want to break my car in the process. Caithness and rampridersrider responded with useful information warning me about damaging the engine, exactly what anyone starting this thread would hope for.

As for the rest, are you F'n kidding me? I "want to do this so I can impress anyone I might encounter on the road." You think I'm going to "come crying to" you when my car breaks? What are you guys 13 years old? I'm almost 30, I may be old and slow witted but I do know that this is just a hobby for me. I barely race and when I do I don't go barking about my setup win or loose to anyone involved simply because I never meet them. You guys say I'm trying to impress others with my T25??? That's ignorance incarnate and it's you. Grow up and give me a break when you do because nothing I posted warranted flaming. I asked for advice and got punk ricer kids giving me Sh*t. I'm starting to understand why this board has the reputation it does. You ask for advice and 2/3rds of what you get is children just looking for a post that might be someone being a **** so they can pounce on them, spew some bs and look tough and knowledgeable. Looks like its dsmlink and dsmtalk for advice from now on.

i think people forget how fast the shaft and impellor are spinning, especially on a smaller turbo not designed for it. its very possible overrunning the turbo will kill it and send shards into your motor. tell me, what good is a rebuilt 60trim without a motor to run it on?

Thomas91169 said:

i think people forget how fast the shaft and impellor are spinning, especially on a smaller turbo not designed for it. its very possible overrunning the turbo will kill it and send shards into your motor. tell me, what good is a rebuilt 60trim without a motor to run it on?

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Yep, the intercooler will stop the big chunks, but some of the smaller stuff is going to get through. I would think you could score a cylinder wall pretty badly, or damage a valve. Grenading a compressor wheel can ruin anyones day.

Thomas91169 said:

i think people forget how fast the shaft and impellor are spinning, especially on a smaller turbo not designed for it. its very possible overrunning the turbo will kill it and send shards into your motor. tell me, what good is a rebuilt 60trim without a motor to run it on?

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Tell me, what good is your advice if you just paraphrase what's already been posted.

I'm done.

Ok man, youre flipping out because youre hearing things that you dont want to hear. People are trying to help you out and save you from a lot of grief. Would it be better for everyone to say "Ya man. Go for it...boost the T25 past its max its worth it!" and then have what everone is saying actually happen? Damn take this as some info and not as everyone flaming you. Who said you were trying to impress anyone with the T25? Youre making yourself look like an ass. If youre that mad, fine go over to the other DSM forums...theyll say the same thing.