finally intalled mine today.. the swap went very well and easy.. since this would be the 5th tme im changing my suspension and hopefully it will be the last. .... right after i got the whole swap over, i took the car for a tes drive and wow what a difference on the handling department... the car feel more responsive and tight... the ride wasnt to bad except for the deep bumps and such then you really feel those high spring rate work...... over all i lke the suspension so far... the only thign that i havent done is is adj. the dampening... im kind of clueless on how i install this know adjuster things and how to set them..... if martin can hit me up about this and maybe can give me some technical help that wou be great...


over all i think this product is one of the best buy ive had in a while, for the money i spent on this thing and the performance difference i get from it is bar none.... especially the great customer service.... thanks martin



Steve R..........

Mitsutalon said:

the only thign that i havent done is is adj. the dampening... im kind of clueless on how i install this know adjuster things and how to set them

Click to expand...

As 97GS-TnVegas said, there are 6 levels to adjust dampening. In those 6 levels, there are 6 individual levels to fine tune it, so 36 total in all. I have the 9k/7k package and i love it. Got out and did a good drive tonight and it feels great. Like said before, its very responsive. Turn-in is great, and the steering input is acurate and immediate. I have the settings at F- 3-0 and R- 2-4 (meaning level 2, 4th interm. level). With those settings and a fairly low ride height (fronts are a bit too low right now, ), the ride is comparable to the Tokico HP suspension. The only gripe is the larger bumps and multi-bump roads, but who cares...i didnt get this susp. setup for a trip to the store.

All in all, this is a great setup. As everyone said, install is straitforward and only minor adjutments are needed to get a good height and shock length (yes, i figured out my last question ).

As for everyone else that is concerned with all the data and dyno charts, if this is a new product, it will be out soon. No need to bust the co. just cause its not a usual "dsm" ie koni/GC suspension...doesnt mean that its crap. Im not trying to back up any marketing or push for advertising, just saying that its a decent setup for the price, thats all.

Mitsutalon- Which spring rates did you go with?

1992AWDDSM said:

Ordered mine Feb 23rd and I still don't have a tracking number.

Click to expand...

Still no information.

I ordered mine on feb 2nd and just got them in this week. It just takes a little while that's well worth waiting.

-Phil

Just got an email saying UPS "lost" my coilovers.

So a new set of D2s are being overnighted from Japan.

It's like I'm in TF&F!!!

Glad everyone is liking their sets, just remember some fine tuning is needed so just take the time to really play with the adjustment so that you find the settings that are right for you. It is impossible to state a setting in particular that everyone will like because we all drive on different roads and for different reasons.

You should get used to the aggressive feel pretty quickly, I'll take a solid ride over crazy roll anyday

jtmcinder said:

How about raising the signal-to-noise ratio?

Click to expand...

I think he missed this.

logic said:

I think he missed this.

Click to expand...

i don't understand what exaclt it is that is being asked. We have not had one single complaint about any noise.

I have filed three complaints against you, including one a few hours ago. You can discuss the technical side of what you sell in this forum (although I here note that you never answered my technical question about revalving D2s), but you cannot announce your inventory, etc. I know that you are a vendor and I appreciate your support for the site, but when you mix business with information, everything that you or anyone else says is called into question by a potential conflict of interest.

In short, I wish that you would post about product availability in the vendor forum (where it belongs) and discuss things like when a given customer is going to get his or her parts in a private emails or PMs (where they belong).

- Jtoby

jtmcinder said:

I have filed three complaints against you, including one a few hours ago. You can discuss the technical side of what you sell in this forum (although I here note that you never answered my technical question about revalving D2s), but you cannot announce your inventory, etc. I know that you are a vendor and I appreciate your support for the site, but when you mix business with information, everything that you or anyone else says is called into question by a potential conflict of interest.

In short, I wish that you would post about product availability in the vendor forum (where it belongs) and discuss things like when a given customer is going to get his or her parts in a private emails or PMs (where they belong).

- Jtoby

Click to expand...

Sorry, i got a little carried away there. I just have been getting so many e-mails from people who read this thread about when they will be available again i figured i would just post it here. I have edited my post.

I thought i had answered your question about the valving to be more specific....

According to D2 the tolerances set on the valving is within a 2kg difference. In other words, they don't do anything to adjust valving unless there is greater than a 2kg difference in the selected Sprint Rate to the standard set rate.

The more aggressive the spring rate the harder the valving. Also the amount of the "gas or oil" and the is adjusted to accommodate the settings.

For example. The 2g setup is standard 11 Kg/mm Front and 9 Kg/mm Rear. You can go as low as 9/7 or as high as 13/11 before any adjusting needs to be made. If you chose say a 7/5 rate then the shocks would have a softer valve adjustment with less pressure in the shock tube and vis versa. I hope that made sense. If not please let me know what part specifically didn't make sense and i will try to elaborate.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

I thought i had answered your question about the valving to be more specific....

According to D2 the tolerances set on the valving is within a 2kg difference. In other words, they don't do anything to adjust valving unless there is greater than a 2kg difference in the selected Sprint Rate to the standard set rate.

The more aggressive the spring rate the harder the valving. Also the amount of the "gas or oil" and the is adjusted to accommodate the settings.

For example. The 2g setup is standard 11 Kg/mm Front and 9 Kg/mm Rear. You can go as low as 9/7 or as high as 13/11 before any adjusting needs to be made. If you chose say a 7/5 rate then the shocks would have a softer valve adjustment with less pressure in the shock tube and vis versa. I hope that made sense. If not please let me know what part specifically didn't make sense and i will try to elaborate.

Click to expand...

That is the same question I asked both you on the phone and Mike at D2 NA Distribution, and neither had an answer for me. If thats the case that the shocks are not re-valved for the lower spring rates, thats a big peeve for me. I thought thats why I waited an extra 2 weeks for that to happen, but I guess not.

"You can go as low as 9/7 or as high as 13/11 before any adjusting needs to be made."

So, with that statement, going with the 9/7 spring rates, you are only able to go to a medium, or lets say middle, setting for the damper. You will NOT be able to adjust it lower than that. What kind of adjustments are those? So, if i want to adjust it softer for normal driving, I cant. I can only make it harder, and harder, till the car hops over bumps at 60mph+ (and it does).

I emailed both the Australian and Taiwan branches of D2 and asked them the same question: Why the shocks are not re-valved for the lower spring rates. Hopefully, I get a response from either.

Also, no one seems to know how the shocks are valved, being if its 50/50 compression/rebound, or more rebound and less compression (60/40). I also posed that question as well in the email.

mitsugsx95 said:

That is the same question I asked both you on the phone and Mike at D2 NA Distribution, and neither had an answer for me. If thats the case that the shocks are not re-valved for the lower spring rates, thats a big peeve for me. I thought thats why I waited an extra 2 weeks for that to happen, but I guess not.

"You can go as low as 9/7 or as high as 13/11 before any adjusting needs to be made."

So, with that statement, going with the 9/7 spring rates, you are only able to go to a medium, or lets say middle, setting for the damper. You will NOT be able to adjust it lower than that. What kind of adjustments are those? So, if i want to adjust it softer for normal driving, I cant. I can only make it harder, and harder, till the car hops over bumps at 60mph+ (and it does).

I emailed both the Australian and Taiwan branches of D2 and asked them the same question: Why the shocks are not re-valved for the lower spring rates. Hopefully, I get a response from either.

Click to expand...

I don't see how that didn't answer the question. Even at the beginning i had posted that they are not re-valved unless it is greater than a 2kg difference from the standard setting. I have also posted that adjustment will need to be made to accommodate the streets you drive on like with any other coilover kit. The kit is more aggressive than stock but with the proper adjustment it would be ok. I can understand that certain areas have worst roads than others (hell i drive in DC streets and that is awful) but i think we have answered the question. It is simply limitation to a part that is already more flexible than other kits out there. If there is some other specific question i can answer for you mike please let me know.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

I don't see how that didn't answer the question. Even at the beginning i had posted that they are not re-valved unless it is greater than a 2kg difference from the standard setting. I have also posted that adjustment will need to be made to accommodate the streets you drive on like with any other coilover kit. The kit is more aggressive than stock but with the proper adjustment it would be ok. I can understand that certain areas have worst roads than others (hell i drive in DC streets and that is awful) but i think we have answered the question. It is simply limitation to a part that is already more flexible than other kits out there. If there is some other specific question i can answer for you mike please let me know.

Click to expand...

No, my question was that why isnt this stated when you ask for the lower spring rates. It should be there in plain sight that they are NOT revalved and that you will NOT have the lower adjustability range with the lower spring rates. THATS my peeve. If i originally wanted the 11/9, that would be kosher, but i didnt. I ordered the 9/7 springs and thought that the shocks would be adjusted from the manufacture for them. I guess not.

And how is it that no one knows how to identify the spring rates...not even the D2 distribution center? Almost every big suspension co listes their part # on the actual spring, so to identify which spring rates they are, no matter how many times its changed owners. The only way i could see to tell the difference, is to measure the springs with the data off the AU D2 website of spring rates vs. diameter/lenth (doesnt matter for length, the 7,9,11 are all the same length, just a difference in diameter my .5mm).

Im not trying to bash on the suspension. I DO like it, and im sure that most of the other people who bought it do as well. I just wish that the info would be out there and avaliable before and after the purchase. I guess its just taking a chance on a suspension thats not yet "proven" in the dsm world.

mitsugsx95 said:

No, my question was that why isnt this stated when you ask for the lower spring rates. It should be there in plain sight that they are NOT revalved and that you will NOT have the lower adjustability range with the lower spring rates. THATS my peeve. If i originally wanted the 11/9, that would be kosher, but i didnt. I ordered the 9/7 springs and thought that the shocks would be adjusted from the manufacture for them. I guess not.

And how is it that no one knows how to identify the spring rates...not even the D2 distribution center? Almost every big suspension co listes their part # on the actual spring, so to identify which spring rates they are, no matter how many times its changed owners. The only way i could see to tell the difference, is to measure the springs with the data off the AU D2 website of spring rates vs. diameter/lenth (doesnt matter for length, the 7,9,11 are all the same length, just a difference in diameter my .5mm).

Im not trying to bash on the suspension. I DO like it, and im sure that most of the other people who bought it do as well. I just wish that the info would be out there and avaliable before and after the purchase. I guess its just taking a chance on a suspension thats not yet "proven" in the dsm world.

Click to expand...

Mike,

I do apologize for any misunderstanding. The shock bodies are set to a 50/50 setting for compression and rebound.

what setting do you have the rear set at?

prostreetdsmx1 said:

The more aggressive the spring rate the harder the valving.

Click to expand...

To be very blunt, this implies that they have no idea what they are doing. As the springrate is increased, you want more rebound damping - no problem there - but as the springrate is increased, you want less compression damping.

I've said this many times before, but it warrants repeating: This is the core problem with Japanese-style shocks that adjust compression and rebound together. It is much better to give up the compression adjustments and have rebound-only (like a Koni) than to have the two adjust and change together. It goes without saying that separate adjustments are even better, as are separate adjustments for low- and high-speed conditions, but if you're only going to have one adjuster, it should be low-speed rebound.

- Jtoby

jtmcinder said:

To be very blunt, this implies that they have no idea what they are doing. As the springrate is increased, you want more rebound damping - no problem there - but as the springrate is increased, you want less compression damping.

I've said this many times before, but it warrants repeating: This is the core problem with Japanese-style shocks that adjust compression and rebound together. It is much better to give up the compression adjustments and have rebound-only (like a Koni) than to have the two adjust and change together. It goes without saying that separate adjustments are even better, as are separate adjustments for low- and high-speed conditions, but if you're only going to have one adjuster, it should be low-speed rebound.

- Jtoby

Click to expand...

my apologies, that part was my fault. I was just talking to them to clear this up and i misunderstood. Too much info at once i guess, i got that backwards so it's not fair to say that "they know what they are doing." but i can see why you felt that way.

Like i said before, these, like all other kits aren't for everybody. I like them because they allow for more adjustment that the other kits that are avialable for the DSM. We would all love to have a kit that allows you to individually tune each aspect of the kit.

Now you have me totally confused, so let me ask my original question again:

When they revalve the shocks for springs that are stiffer than +2kg over the base rate, what - exactly - do they change? To be 100% clear, for each of the following, do they raise it, lower it, or leave it alone: low-speed rebound, low-speed compression, high-speed rebound, and high-speed compression

- Jtoby

OK, i just put in a call to D2 and asked for a detailed explanation to what EXACTLY is done when a kit is "adjusted" for a specific rate. What i was explained before was the basics so i asked for everything they do so that we can eliminate any confusion.

prostreetdsmx1 said:

OK, i just put in a call to D2 and asked for a detailed explanation to what EXACTLY is done when a kit is "adjusted" for a specific rate. What i was explained before was the basics so i asked for everything they do so that we can eliminate any confusion.

Click to expand...

Sorry about slamming you with the questions, but which D2 did you call and what are they going to tell you that they couldnt have told me? I talked to Mike at the D2 NA division, and was told that he was the resident "DSM suspension" expert there, but unfortunatley, he wasnt able to answer my questions. He said he had to call someone else to get the info, hence why I sent an email to both overseas Dirstibutors.

Yeah, its good to have all the adjustments in the world, but if you just going to keep raising rebound and compression as well, you are going to get the "bouncy" that jtmcinder is trying to say. It would be great if these were valved in a off-set fashion, such as more rebound than compression.

If D2s have equal amounts of compression and rebound before being revalved, then they will be a nightmare. At the default springrates, you'd want at least twice as much rebound as compression, if not three times as much.

- Jtoby

If anybody with these shocks wants to really find out what they do, they can send them to me and I'll run them on the shock dyno.

DG

Hm ... That does sound kind of intruiging ... How much is it gonna cost? I kinda wanna get my HotBits dyno'd ...

I'm not sure if I can answer that question without the "vendor police" jumping all over me.

Let me put it this way... the going rate tends to be about $25 per shock, and we are priced accordingly.

I'll also tell you this - no matter if I do it, or somebody else with a shock dyno does it, you NEED to have your shocks dynoed at least once in their lifetime. Adjusters often do odd things, and there are production tolerences in even the best shocks.

When you set a given set of shocks at "full hard" or whatever, there is absolutely zero guarentee that they match. You CANNOT assume that they do. In my experience, it's actually RARE that that happens - a pleasant suprise.

I have seen two shocks with the same part number that only matched when one was "full hard" and the other "full soft". I have seen shocks that were supposedly rebound-adjustable crosstalk hard on compression. I have seen adjusters that first stiffened, and then softened, even though the markings said it was supposed to get progessively stiffer. I have seen supposedly revalved shocks that dynoed exactly the same as they did prior to revalving. I have seen adjusters that did NOTHING.... you get the idea.

And I've seen a LOT of shocks with one adjuster that changes compression and rebound at the same time. These shocks are properly termed "junk".

If you're spending the coin on shocks, get them dynoed. If your shock supplier does not supply dyno plots with your shocks (like we do at ATI) then change shock suppliers. There is no excuse for not knowing what your shocks are doing.

DG

Given that the rest of the post contains very good and rarely-given advice - that you really want your shocks dynoed, even if they come from a company as good as Koni - I (for one) have no problem with the brief mention that ATI will change you $25 per shock. This is useful information; some people might not know that dyno services exist.

It's not a question of vendor police, Dennis. It's a question of signal-to-noise ratio. Only the most uptight or someone who has a personal issue with the poster would complain when a knowledgeable person who happens to be a vendor makes a post like yours. That you went so far as to post data from a set of Konis to show the differences also earned you enough "points" to make a brief mention of ATI cool. At least, my mouse made no move towards "report post" as I read what you wrote.

- Jtoby

I would like to get some more info on these D2's. I finished putting them on last night and found a few things out.

With the fronts as low as they can go without the threaded section hitting the CV axle, I have about 1" clearance between the fender apex and the tire.

With the rears as high as they will go, the tire tucks over an inch above the fender apex.

Looks a lot friggin lower in the back, than in the front with no obvious way to even them out.

Also the setting dial has no detents what-so-ever between settings. Considering that there were no directions AT ALL in the box, I am having to figure out how all this shit works. I'm not dumb, but this setup really just throws you out in the deep end and expects you to swim without any help at all.

What I did was screw the round tops that show the 6 settings onto the top and twist the adjuster to the right until it wouldn't go any lower. I then pulled out the adjuster and reset it to "1". Then I spun the adjuster around 2 full turns on the front. Test drove it and turned 2 more full turns. Seemed to soften a little. Set the rear 5 full turns stopping on "1". Still need time to re-adjust and figure out what really is going on.

Quality appears to be top notch. But as for instructions, you're ass out.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODQ0ODkyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODQ0ODkzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
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http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODQ3MDYxNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODU3NjI3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODU3NjI4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wODU3NjI5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=